Karnataka and Mumbai Lobby selections without performance

[Straight Drive]

29 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

No its his ability that very tempting and yes short format adds to it

Somewere the success of sehwag also makes captain temp that lets have a player who can change game in session

 

Dnt forget sourav had the same obsession with yuvraj for which he made him open disturbing the set pair of aakash n sehwag 

Mumbai isnt suppourting rohit , neither delhi dhawan. Captain wants them 

they were dropped under dhoni 

Picked under virat

 

Every captain has his liking for his kind of player . 

 

Rahul , rahane are failing but they have done something in test cricket to get the backing. U cnt keep dropping everyone. Neither u have don bradman on benches

 

What mumbai lobby do ganguly, sehwag belong who wants rohit in test side 

 

No i dnt notice such nonsense things 

Yuvi ...bhajji kya logic hai , they both got picked coz they were deserving 

 

Ur telling me mayank is deserving n bhajji n yuvi werent ?

 

Anyone who gets picked is deserving or captain sees potential in him 

ur using wrong words

A captains choice is not lobbying 

 

Whole mumbai cricket association dnt make playing XI , kohli does and no one has the power to tell him or in past dhoni or ganguly 

I really dnt see it in Indian cricket now , in some fields m sure it does 

I am not saying Mumbai cricket is making playing 11 or Karnataka cricket association is making playing 11.  It is not the only lobby in Indian cricket, else there would be team of all Mumbai players. Neither is Karnataka or any other association in such a position to have a total free hand. Other associations too are influential now, the problem is sadly the influence is not useful to more deserving candidates but is used to promote the failures at times.

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, Straight Drive said:

I am not saying Mumbai cricket is making playing 11 or Karnataka cricket association is making playing 11.  It is not the only lobby in Indian cricket, else there would be team of all Mumbai players. Neither is Karnataka or any other association in such a position to have a total free hand. Other associations too are influential now, the problem is sadly the influence is not useful to more deserving candidates but is used to promote the failures at times.

Look

cricket is a humans game

U cnt predict who will do what on next day 

 

No 2 ppl will have same likings as player - u may rate mayank, i dnt 

similarly kohli will rate some players and dhoni some other , next captain some other

 

Players with more ability will always be backed more , only 11 will play someone wud be hard done.....

Rahul n rahane has done sometihng to be backed , bad patch is a part of cricketers career. Many players in past have been backed continuously in their bad times. U back good players coz u knw they will win u games 

 

Indian cricket has moved beyond the state association lobbying for players, so lets stop finding it . We can be wrong some day regd our prediction so can kohli be. If kohli believes Rohit is his player lets give him that coz we also have right to criticize him after that but lets not call its politics . Sadly influnces dont work, if PM calls n ask kohli to play XYZ player and he doesnt beileve in him he wont play. Recent x-players statement in favour of rohit just backed kohli instinct of beilving in him, but their was 1st a instinct in him to. Also all these x-players backing show that they also have same thought

Vaughan , ian chappel had same views regd rohit.....what do they have to do with zones

 

Why is it so hard to digest that their is a thing called backing a player in rough time. No 11 players will be in form same time....few will carry other some day and vice versa. U cnt keep chopping n changing every day 

[Lannister]

1 hour ago, Straight Drive said:

Vijay would have been dropped had Prithvi Shaw not got injured.  Rahul would ahv ebeen dropped had they carried two backup openers than two backup spinners.  All three openers  Dhawan, Rahul and Vijay have been total failures. Highest opening partnership is 63 on away tours in 2018. 

No one selects two backup openers in the squad. That's illogical. Mayank should've been there in place of Vijay. 

[Straight Drive]

7 minutes ago, Lannister said:

No one selects two backup openers in the squad. That's illogical. Mayank should've been there in place of Vijay. 

Opening has been our weakest aspect.  So having two backup openers on tour of Australia could have been a better idea than having two backup spinners. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Opening has been our weakest aspect.  So having two backup openers on tour of Australia could have been a better idea than having two backup spinners. 

no pick best 3, if they cant other wnt high chances

parthiv can also open. U cnt take so many players

Already u need backs up in pacers, middle order, keeper....abhi to we didnt take an all rounder

[jusarrived]

26 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

I would like to know what average should considered as  acceptable from a specialist batsman of a major cricketing nation which has a reputation for producing ATG batsmen. 

 

There are threads by others too to sack Rahul and Rohit. How is just me who thinks Rahul is a failure?

if you have to put a number , the it would be ~45 for a test opener ..with his current average of 37(?) all he needs is one good series to reach that average . Hes played 18 of his 32 tests away from home , so at this point it can go either ways . 

I was one among the many others who thought he should be given a break , it was fine if he was dropped for this series , but if they persisted with him it dosent make a quota pick though .

 

Virat was averaging less than 40 after having played 30+ tests . Had failed in Eng where he could not play swing and had failed in WI where he could not handle bounce . His away average was similar to that of KL now .  KL is just an underachiever at this point just like Virat , but if he dosent perform soon he will be discarded . 

[Straight Drive]

12 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Look

cricket is a humans game

U cnt predict who will do what on next day 

 

No 2 ppl will have same likings as player - u may rate mayank, i dnt 

similarly kohli will rate some players and dhoni some other , next captain some other

 

Players with more ability will always be backed more , only 11 will play someone wud be hard done.....

Rahul n rahane has done sometihng to be backed , bad patch is a part of cricketers career. Many players in past have been backed continuously in their bad times. U back good players coz u knw they will win u games 

 

Indian cricket has moved beyond the state association lobbying for players, so lets stop finding it . We can be wrong some day regd our prediction so can kohli be. If kohli believes Rohit is his player lets give him that coz we also have right to criticize him after that but lets not call its politics . Sadly influnces dont work, if PM calls n ask kohli to play XYZ player and he doesnt beileve in him he wont play. Recent x-players statement in favour of rohit just backed kohli instinct of beilving in him, but their was 1st a instinct in him to. Also all these x-players backing show that they also have same thought

Vaughan , ian chappel had same views regd rohit.....what do they have to do with zones

 

Why is it so hard to digest that their is a thing called backing a player in rough time. No 11 players will be in form same time....few will carry other some day and vice versa. U cnt keep chopping n changing every day 

No one is asking cricketers to play on next day. Fans have started questioning after 25 and 30 tests.

 

That's also agreed.  

 

This is the crux of issue.  How much the failing players are backed. 50 tests?  I think 30 tests are more than enough to invest in one cricketer.  A decision can be easily taken on that much sample size.

 

If rough time continues after 30 tests, its a problem imo.  A player should earn his spot.  Rough times cannot go on to 50 tests.

[Straight Drive]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

no pick best 3, if they cant other wnt high chances

parthiv can also open. U cnt take so many players

Already u need backs up in pacers, middle order, keeper....abhi to we didnt take an all rounder

Yes, you're correct there. It didn't cross my mind.  Parthiv can be used as opener. So we actually have two opening backups.  

 

 

[Lannister]

15 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Opening has been our weakest aspect.  So having two backup openers on tour of Australia could have been a better idea than having two backup spinners. 

That's not how you develop a team, having backup options for every other player. If you have selected someone, you need to back them for complete series. No one deserves to be dropped after getting couple of chances because they have put in a hard work to reach that stage. Rahul is one of the top openers in the country and rightly so he has been backed for this series. 

Edited December 10, 2018 by Lannister

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

No one is asking cricketers to play on next day. Fans have started questioning after 25 and 30 tests.

 

That's also agreed.  

 

This is the crux of issue.  How much the failing players are backed. 50 tests?  I think 30 tests are more than enough to invest in one cricketer.  A decision can be easily taken on that much sample size.

 

If rough time continues after 30 tests, its a problem imo.  A player should earn his spot.  Rough times cannot go on to 50 tests.

who has failed 30 test ?????

50 test isnt rough time ....means a player isnt good

[Straight Drive]

5 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

if you have to put a number , the it would be ~45 for a test opener ..with his current average of 37(?) all he needs is one good series to reach that average . Hes played 18 of his 32 tests away from home , so at this point it can go either ways . 

I was one among the many others who thought he should be given a break , it was fine if he was dropped for this series , but if they persisted with him it dosent make a quota pick though .

 

Virat was averaging less than 40 after having played 30+ tests . Had failed in Eng where he could not play swing and had failed in WI where he could not handle bounce . His away average was similar to that of KL now .  KL is just an underachiever at this point just like Virat , but if he dosent perform soon he will be discarded . 

I totally agree with the opinion that somewhere around 45 is sound enough. It will obviously improve as we are playing more number of test series at home.  The batsmen are going to make merry once this test series ends. 

 

Zimbabwe -1 test in India

SA - 3 tests in India

Bangladesh - 2 tests in India

 

The only away test series is against a weak WestIndies in WestIndies.

 

All batsmen who survive the chop now will boost the averages in 2019. The cycle continues of boosting averages at home and declining severely away from home.  The problems remain.

 

 

 

[Straight Drive]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

who has failed 30 test ?????

50 test isnt rough time ....means a player isnt good

Rahul averages 37. Dhawan averages 40, Rohit averages 39, Vijay 39.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Straight Drive

[master22]

47 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

I would like to know what average should considered as  acceptable from a specialist batsman of a major cricketing nation which has a reputation for producing ATG batsmen. 

 

There are threads by others too to sack Rahul and Rohit. How is just me who thinks Rahul is a failure?

Rahul was averaging 45 till the beginning of 2018 (after playing around 20 odd tests). He has been in horrible form this year and needs to be dropped after this series. But let's not make it seem like he has always been bad, and a quota player. Even Murali Vijay averages 39 after playing around 60 matches. Comparison with Rohit Sharma is unfair. Rohit has been a total flop in Test cricket where as Rahul has been in top 10 test batsman ranking a few times in his career. Even if Rahul is replaced, Mayank Agarwal will rightfully take his place. Since Mayank is also from the same state, how does it matter to this so called lobby since they play for the same state.

 

[Straight Drive]

6 minutes ago, Lannister said:

That's not how you develop a team, having backup options for every other player. If you have selected someone, you need to back them for complete series. No one deserves to be dropped after getting couple of chances because they have put in a hard work to reach that stage. Rahul is one of the top openers in the country and rightly so he has been backed for this series. 

I did not say discard the lesser averaging specialist batsmen permanently.  Drop them so that they work on their  game in domestic long format matches atleast for one or two full seasons.  VVS Laxman was dropped, he scored 1000 odd runs in Ranji, then he went on to rock international test cricket. Ganguly was dropped, he came back and did well in tests. There is always a chance to prove and make a comeback as we have seen in numerous instances before.

[Straight Drive]

2 minutes ago, master22 said:

Rahul was averaging 45 till the beginning of 2018 (after playing around 20 odd tests). He has been in horrible form this year and needs to be dropped after this series. But let's not make it seem like he has always been bad, and a quota player. Even Murali Vijay averages 39 after playing around 60 matches. Comparison with Rohit Sharma is unfair. Rohit has been a total flop in Test cricket where as Rahul has been in top 10 test batsman ranking a few times in his career. Even if Rahul is replaced, Mayank Agarwal will rightfully take his place. Since Mayank is also from the same state, how does it matter to this so called lobby since they play for the same state.

 

Rahul did well on his first debut tour in Australia. Then the home series helped him boost his average further. Then came three tough series in this year and thats where it has dropped. He and many others will start averaging better in 2019 with home series and poor opponents in home and away conditions.  There is no doubt about it. It will be a golden phase for Indian cricket with one series win following another. Something like 2016 / 17. 

[Lannister]

14 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

I did not say discard the lesser averaging specialist batsmen permanently.  Drop them so that they work on their  game in domestic long format matches atleast for one or two full seasons.  VVS Laxman was dropped, he scored 1000 odd runs in Ranji, then he went on to rock international test cricket. Ganguly was dropped, he came back and did well in tests. There is always a chance to prove and make a comeback as we have seen in numerous instances before.

But did Laxman and Ganguly were ranked in the top 10 test rankings before they were dropped from the team. Rahul deserves this series just like how Kohli did when he was struggling in the initial stage of his career. 

 

Now you have put someone like Rohit in the same bracket as Rahul and that is what other posters are questioning about. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

28 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Rahul averages 37. Dhawan averages 40, Rohit averages 39, Vijay 39.

37 for an opener is not bad + he has scored in tough condition. Their is a diff between inconsitency and not having ability

Openinig is the toughest in test cricket ....even pujara who everyone was praising was bad in 1st overseas cycle. Rahul still has shown more in his 1st cycle 

 

So how is 40 avg of dhawan a complete failure, also isnt he out of the team

Vijay has done well but has been inconsistent ......he has contributed a lot unfortunately on last leg

 

None of them cud hve that much if they had failed all 30 test 

 

Dhawan rohit has been benched a lot and dropped to ....ur saying as if they are given a license to fail and no one can touch them

 

Rahul, vijay have done well....have been inconsistent but so have rahane n pujara to .....ur making it sound like they were complete failures

 

 

 

[Sachinism]

Why is nobody talking of the Madras lobby?

What about Gujju lobby? Are they wilting in power? Hardik and Jaddu out of the side

[Straight Drive]

Just now, Lannister said:

But did Laxman and Ganguly were ranked in the top 10 test rankings before they were dropped from the team. Rahul deserves this series just like how Kohli did when he was struggling in the initial stage of his career. 

 

Now you have put someone like Rohit in the same bracket as Rahul and that is what other posters are questioning about. 

Ganguly started his career in 1996, iirc he was dropped in 2005.  Then he came back again and had one outstanding year. Then again he flopped and was dropped in 2008 ?

 

Laxman was much better. He survived many years after comeback.  I remember he scored 10 tons in Ranji in one season, no 50's then went to Australia and played one of the best knock in test cricket history.

 

Stats wise they are similar until now. It is clear.  Statistically too, one (Rahul) is expected to average better than other if both are given 50 tests. Subjectively both are in different batting positions. Personally i am a big fan of his (Rahul's) in T20 cricket, but in tests he isn't showing the temperament and patience.  Even in this test it was missing.  If he sorts these two aspects he or for that matter most specialist batsmen will survive in test cricket with a good average over longer period of time.

[Straight Drive]

14 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

37 for an opener is not bad + he has scored in tough condition. Their is a diff between inconsitency and not having ability

Openinig is the toughest in test cricket ....even pujara who everyone was praising was bad in 1st overseas cycle. Rahul still has shown more in his 1st cycle 

 

So how is 40 avg of dhawan a complete failure, also isnt he out of the team

Vijay has done well but has been inconsistent ......he has contributed a lot unfortunately on last leg

 

None of them cud hve that much if they had failed all 30 test 

 

Dhawan rohit has been benched a lot and dropped to ....ur saying as if they are given a license to fail and no one can touch them

 

Rahul, vijay have done well....have been inconsistent but so have rahane n pujara to .....ur making it sound like they were complete failures

 

 

 

I disagree on this with utmost respect to your different view. Anything under 40 for opener is bad imo, especially for an Indian spot as specialist batsman. If this was Bangladesh,Pakistan, SL or Zimbabwe or West Indies, they would happily take these guys with these averages in their batting lineup.