zen Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, jusarrived said: You can go check the stats . Am fairly sure the impact a quick 35 from Viru had is much more than Rohits 60-70 . India’s win percentage is more or less the same Rohit scores a 100 or a zero . He’s a zero impact player . The par scores in Sehwag's time were relatively low so those 35-40s go a long way for the team's cause ..... From 2008 to 2011, Sehwag was simply phenomenal: View overall figures [change view] Primary team India Start of match date between 1 Jan 2008 and 1 Jan 2012 Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000 Ordered by batting strike rate (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 8 of 8 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s V Sehwag 2008-2011 62 61 2 2794 219 47.35 2271 123.02 7 12 2 381 61 SK Raina 2008-2011 99 87 17 2638 116* 37.68 2687 98.17 3 17 6 220 66 SR Tendulkar 2008-2011 46 45 4 2149 200* 52.41 2311 92.99 7 8 1 234 24 G Gambhir 2008-2011 87 83 8 3357 150* 44.76 3692 90.92 7 22 6 354 13 Yuvraj Singh 2008-2011 79 75 12 2478 138* 39.33 2758 89.84 5 15 5 256 63 MS Dhoni 2008-2011 100 89 27 3659 124 59.01 4343 84.25 4 26 1 264 55 V Kohli 2008-2011 74 71 10 2860 118 46.88 3407 83.94 8 18 5 274 15 RG Sharma 2008-2011 68 65 16 1749 114 35.69 2213 79.03 2 10 5 122 20 Edited February 16, 2019 by zen flamy 1 Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, zen said: The idea is for Team Ind to benefit. Not just Rohit, who has to make good use of the balls he play on a relatively consistent basis vs strong teams .... For e.g. Ind should go at least at +1 RR of par score in PP. So if the par score is 300 (RPO 6), Ind should go at 7 RPO in first 10 to be 70 or more. Currently, we would be at 45-50 yes we shud but 1. what guarntee is that pant will find success or consistency ? 2. Rohit at 4 was a failure so why send what didnt work? n why change whats working ? 45-50, no most days we easily get around 60 16 minutes ago, zen said: This is not saying that Ind is bad with Tuk Tuk Sharma opening. If he is in good hitting form, he can be utilized to open as well .... Or if the par score is not high Again tuk -tuk is makes no sense for rohit, the guy starts at decent rate and blast into unrealstic one 16 minutes ago, zen said: If the par score is high, we could have to optimize by getting more runs early on and having a relatively better and mature option at #4. If Dhawan batted in the middle, he could be utilized below too no team will do such bizzare changes before WC it takes time for any batsman ti adjust to a role n evolve his game Rohit himself has said he is not comfortable batting in middle so why put ur top batsman in such a position 16 minutes ago, zen said: Players like Pant are deadly. If they fire early on, they will take the game away from the other team. If they fail, the team still has Kohli, Rohit, Dhoni to play out the overs Rohit is not effective at 4 which was already proven and pant or anyone has a huge benchmark to follow when it comes to rohit n ODI , so its easy to say anyone will surpass but high chance he wont 16 minutes ago, zen said: We have to keep an open mind. Various strategies can be tried out depending upon the form of players such startegies are childish to adopt before a WC that to when thinsg are set When india made rohit open in 2013 CT we didnt have a fixed pair Link to comment
zen Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 Eng in Eng since 2016, RPO 6.4 View overall figures [change view] Primary team England Host country England Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2016 Totals in terms of batting team Ordered by average runs per six balls (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 1 of 1 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Team Span Mat Won Lost Tied NR W/L Ave RPO Inns HS LS England 2016-2018 32 25 4 1 2 6.250 48.85 6.40 32 481 153 Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 15 minutes ago, zen said: The par scores in Sehwag's time were relatively low so those 35-40s go a long way for the team's cause ..... From 2008 to 2011, Sehwag was simply phenomenal: View overall figures [change view] Primary team India Start of match date between 1 Jan 2008 and 1 Jan 2012 Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000 Ordered by batting strike rate (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 8 of 8 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s V Sehwag 2008-2011 62 61 2 2794 219 47.35 2271 123.02 7 12 2 381 61 SK Raina 2008-2011 99 87 17 2638 116* 37.68 2687 98.17 3 17 6 220 66 SR Tendulkar 2008-2011 46 45 4 2149 200* 52.41 2311 92.99 7 8 1 234 24 G Gambhir 2008-2011 87 83 8 3357 150* 44.76 3692 90.92 7 22 6 354 13 Yuvraj Singh 2008-2011 79 75 12 2478 138* 39.33 2758 89.84 5 15 5 256 63 MS Dhoni 2008-2011 100 89 27 3659 124 59.01 4343 84.25 4 26 1 264 55 V Kohli 2008-2011 74 71 10 2860 118 46.88 3407 83.94 8 18 5 274 15 RG Sharma 2008-2011 68 65 16 1749 114 35.69 2213 79.03 2 10 5 122 20 After sehwag their was endless batting now batting ends with kohli ...after that allah malik more reason for top 3 to stay as long . Rohit is miles ahead then sehwag as ODI batsman, sehwag was an under achiever in ODi cricket so his example shudnt be even used for a player thats done better then him. If i show u rohit last 5 yr, the guy avgs 50+ every year . Sehwag started quick but never lasted long and rohit bats till end and causes a damage that no one does. Just to have that cameo at start lets not disturb this pair who have been excellent. So what they are not giving excpetional start but they are giving good starts n with consistency. With those fiery starts u wnt get consistency . Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Rohit avg 70+ in 2017 n 2018 and 60+ in 2016, really are we talking about moving him This is freak stuff flamy 1 Link to comment
jusarrived Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, zen said: The par scores in Sehwag's time were relatively low so those 35-40s go a long way for the team's cause ..... From 2008 to 2011, Sehwag was simply phenomenal: View overall figures [change view] Primary team India Start of match date between 1 Jan 2008 and 1 Jan 2012 Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000 Ordered by batting strike rate (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 8 of 8 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s V Sehwag 2008-2011 62 61 2 2794 219 47.35 2271 123.02 7 12 2 381 61 SK Raina 2008-2011 99 87 17 2638 116* 37.68 2687 98.17 3 17 6 220 66 SR Tendulkar 2008-2011 46 45 4 2149 200* 52.41 2311 92.99 7 8 1 234 24 G Gambhir 2008-2011 87 83 8 3357 150* 44.76 3692 90.92 7 22 6 354 13 Yuvraj Singh 2008-2011 79 75 12 2478 138* 39.33 2758 89.84 5 15 5 256 63 MS Dhoni 2008-2011 100 89 27 3659 124 59.01 4343 84.25 4 26 1 264 55 V Kohli 2008-2011 74 71 10 2860 118 46.88 3407 83.94 8 18 5 274 15 RG Sharma 2008-2011 68 65 16 1749 114 35.69 2213 79.03 2 10 5 122 20 Yes exactly and pitches got much flatter after 2007 and with the advent of T20s the scores only got bigger . Some fans here got mental over Rohit’s 200s and use this as an excuse , but both tendulkar and Viru got a 200 each towards the end of their career and I have no doubts in my mind they would have done that more often had they been playing now . It’s only the Dhawan doesn’t convert his starts into big ones Sharma looks good . It’s really not a big deal to get a 200 as an opener on flat pitches once in a while these days . It’s when Sharma does not get a big one it concerns me , which is more often . He screws the team badly Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 hour ago, jusarrived said: You can go check the stats . Am fairly sure the impact a quick 35 from Viru had is much more than Rohits 60-70 . India’s win percentage is more or less the same Rohit scores a 100 or a zero . He’s a zero impact player . how can we check the stats when viru had a diff batting to follow then rohit rohit had to bat till end Sehwag cud manage with his styles coz the batting was endless Link to comment
zen Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 17 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: yes we shud but 1. what guarntee is that pant will find success or consistency ? 2. Rohit at 4 was a failure so why send what didnt work? n why change whats working ? 45-50, no most days we easily get around 60 Again tuk -tuk is makes no sense for rohit, the guy starts at decent rate and blast into unrealstic one no team will do such bizzare changes before WC it takes time for any batsman ti adjust to a role n evolve his game Rohit himself has said he is not comfortable batting in middle so why put ur top batsman in such a position Rohit is not effective at 4 which was already proven and pant or anyone has a huge benchmark to follow when it comes to rohit n ODI , so its easy to say anyone will surpass but high chance he wont such startegies are childish to adopt before a WC that to when thinsg are set When india made rohit open in 2013 CT we didnt have a fixed pair The idea is to get better .... Teams should evolve and make changes as per conditions .... If the point is not to make changes why bring in players such as Pant, Shankar, why not continue with Khaleel or whoever 11 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: After sehwag their was endless batting now batting ends with kohli ...after that allah malik more reason for top 3 to stay as long . Rohit is miles ahead then sehwag as ODI batsman, sehwag was an under achiever in ODi cricket so his example shudnt be even used for a player thats done better then him. If i show u rohit last 5 yr, the guy avgs 50+ every year . Sehwag started quick but never lasted long and rohit bats till end and causes a damage that no one does. Just to have that cameo at start lets not disturb this pair who have been excellent. So what they are not giving excpetional start but they are giving good starts n with consistency. With those fiery starts u wnt get consistency . Sehwag was a key player for Ind .... Pant can be such a key player too for Ind .... And on paper, we still have endless batting even now 9 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: Rohit avg 70+ in 2017 n 2018 and 60+ in 2016, really are we talking about moving him This is freak stuff Averages are relative. Even Rayudu averages 60+ for example and many do not want him in the squad: Away in the 2016-today period: View overall figures [change view] Primary team India Home or away away (home of opposition) Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2016 Batting position between 1 and 4 Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 200 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 6 of 6 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s V Kohli 2016-2019 29 29 7 2001 160* 90.95 2070 96.66 9 8 0 180 22 AT Rayudu 2016-2019 10 9 4 317 90 63.40 433 73.21 0 2 2 32 6 RG Sharma 2016-2019 27 27 3 1421 171* 59.20 1542 92.15 7 4 1 130 45 KL Rahul 2016-2018 8 7 3 226 100* 56.50 285 79.29 1 1 1 17 3 AM Rahane 2016-2018 14 13 1 620 103 51.66 770 80.51 1 6 0 53 7 S Dhawan 2016-2019 31 31 3 1324 132* 47.28 1323 100.07 3 8 1 175 14 Vohli averages 91 and plays with a higher SR Again, not saying that Ind is bad with Rohit but that there is an opportunity for Ind to get better Link to comment
zen Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 RPO of teams vs Eng in Eng since 2016. Min 2 games View overall figures [change view] Opposition team England Host country England Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2016 Totals in terms of batting team Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 2 Ordered by average runs per six balls (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 7 of 7 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Team Span Mat Won Lost Tied NR W/L Ave RPO Inns HS LS South Africa 2017-2017 3 1 2 0 0 0.500 41.72 6.06 3 328 267 West Indies 2017-2017 5 0 4 0 1 0.000 36.43 6.03 4 356 245 Australia 2017-2018 6 0 6 0 0 0.000 27.17 5.82 6 310 205 Pakistan 2016-2017 6 2 4 0 0 0.500 36.95 5.58 6 304 251 Sri Lanka 2016-2016 5 0 3 1 1 0.000 32.37 5.51 5 305 202 India 2018-2018 3 1 2 0 0 0.500 38.05 5.42 3 269 236 Ireland 2017-2017 2 0 2 0 0 0.000 18.45 4.66 2 243 126 Ind is closer to Ireland WI Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, zen said: The idea is to get better .... Teams should evolve and make changes as per conditions .... If the point is not to make changes why bring in players such as Pant, Shankar, why not continue with Khaleel or whoever n ru sure pant will do better his state, IPL, A-side none found him suitable to open ? Those are players are bough inplace of problem areas ur talking about a area that has been our strength Quote Sehwag was a key player for Ind .... Pant can be such a key player too for Ind .... And on paper, we still have endless batting even now Sehwag was key, Rohit is a pillar of this batting their is a reason sachin, kohli are considered gr8 of odi coz they made big runs. Any team will take 160-170 in 50 overs then 30 runs in 20 balls from 1 batsman Quote Averages are relative. Even Rayudu averages 60+ for example and many do not want him in the squad: Rayudu has an s/r of 75 , rohit s/r is 92.17 as opener and avg of 57 So impact plus consistency + runs against every top quality side Quote Away in the 2016-today period: View overall figures [change view] Primary team India Home or away away (home of opposition) Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2016 Batting position between 1 and 4 Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 200 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 6 of 6 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s V Kohli 2016-2019 29 29 7 2001 160* 90.95 2070 96.66 9 8 0 180 22 AT Rayudu 2016-2019 10 9 4 317 90 63.40 433 73.21 0 2 2 32 6 RG Sharma 2016-2019 27 27 3 1421 171* 59.20 1542 92.15 7 4 1 130 45 KL Rahul 2016-2018 8 7 3 226 100* 56.50 285 79.29 1 1 1 17 3 AM Rahane 2016-2018 14 13 1 620 103 51.66 770 80.51 1 6 0 53 7 S Dhawan 2016-2019 31 31 3 1324 132* 47.28 1323 100.07 3 8 1 175 14 Vohli averages 91 and plays with a higher SR Again, not saying that Ind is bad with Rohit but that there is an opportunity for Ind to get better what does these stats even tell that rohit is our 2nd best batsman .......rayudu stats lets leave at side as his s/r is low and sample games are 1/3 Edited February 16, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03 Link to comment
zen Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: n ru sure pant will do better his state, IPL, A-side none found him suitable to open ? He has done better than Rohit in tests, has the game for LOIs Quote Those are players are bough inplace of problem areas ur talking about a area that has been our strength So we can make changes to improve / solve problems .... thank you! Quote Sehwag was key, Rohit is a pillar of this batting Rayudu has an s/r of 75 , rohit s/r is 92.17 as opener and avg of 57 So impact plus consistency + runs against every top quality side what does these stats even tell that rohit is our 2nd best batsman .......rayudu stats lets leave at side as his s/r is low and sample games are 1/3 So now SR is important .... thank you! Link to comment
jusarrived Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 24 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: how can we check the stats when viru had a diff batting to follow then rohit rohit had to bat till end Sehwag cud manage with his styles coz the batting was endless We seem to have always some excuse for the way Rohit bats . We convincingly won in SA and NZ with no contribution from Rohit . Iike I said earlier , we do well when he gets out early . As for weak middle order , I would agree to that if sharma was saving us from collapsing on difficult pitches on the contrary he’s the first to go if there is some help for bowlers . This guy tuk tuks on 350 par pitches , if anything puts more pressure on the middle order everytime he gets out after wasting balls . Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 34 minutes ago, zen said: He has done better than Rohit in tests, has the game for LOIs Sehwag was legend in test still cudnt manage to do better then rohit in ODI, so wat surety does pant have 34 minutes ago, zen said: So we can make changes to improve / solve problems .... thank you! Their is no problem in opening problem is middle 34 minutes ago, zen said: So now SR is important .... thank you! s/r is always improtant but so is consistency ...ur telling me rohit sharma s/r is bad. Since when is 92.17 a problem Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 27 minutes ago, jusarrived said: We seem to have always some excuse for the way Rohit bats . there is no excuse look at his perfomances 27 minutes ago, jusarrived said: We convincingly won in SA and NZ with no contribution from Rohit . good for us , never said he is perfect and no one is . He has made so many runs in ENG n AUS 27 minutes ago, jusarrived said: Iike I said earlier , we do well when he gets out early . As for weak middle order , I would agree to that if sharma was saving us from collapsing on difficult pitches on the contrary he’s the first to go if there is some help for bowlers . This guy tuk tuks on 350 par pitches , if anything puts more pressure on the middle order everytime he gets out after wasting balls . hows is 92..17 s/r uk tuk ....overdose of t20s have u seen his daddy hundred u think its easy to do while tuk tuk, u think a guy who has low s/r will have max number of sixes . Pressure on middle order...by the time middle order is batting rohit is already in 5th gear I think u have seen rahane or pujara bat and confusing them with rohit Link to comment
zen Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: Their is no problem in opening problem is middle s/r is always improtant but so is consistency ...ur telling me rohit sharma s/r is bad. Since when is 92.17 a problem Tuktuk Sharma is a potential problem considering par scores of 300 or more ... You are asking for guarantees as if you can guarantee Ind the WC or Rohit scoring 500+ runs in it .... Pant’s explosive starts would benefit Ind The point is that we have explosive players, who can score at a higher SR, which should be leveraged upon to optimize PPs .... Rohit can bat in the middle order Edited February 16, 2019 by zen Nikola 1 Link to comment
flamy Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 They can try Pant and Rahul opening in the T20s, but I doubt they will. Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 49 minutes ago, zen said: Tuktuk Sharma is a potential problem considering par scores of 300 or more ... You are asking for guarantees as if you can guarantee Ind the WC or Rohit scoring 500+ runs in it .... Pant’s explosive starts would benefit Ind The guy's record speak for himself 2nd- pant is better against spin then pace 3rd- rohit is better with cut n pulls then pant Pant is yet to earn a place n ur saying replace him with one of the best limited over batsman in world currently . Rohit n kohli are the only guys who can help u win 300+ games which is where i have doubts about dhawan also. Problem is everyone inculding them needs guys around the, Scoring a quick fire 30-40 also doesnt get u 300+ scores 49 minutes ago, zen said: The point is that we have explosive players, who can score at a higher SR, which should be leveraged upon to optimize PPs .... Rohit can bat in the middle order the point ur making right now, i made 2 yrs ago after CT loss that post shud also be there but thats where i learned this is the best pair in the world and they have gotten better as well. Also now is not the time Link to comment
zen Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: The guy's record speak for himself 2nd- pant is better against spin then pace 3rd- rohit is better with cut n pulls then pant Pant is yet to earn a place n ur saying replace him with one of the best limited over batsman in world currently . Rohit n kohli are the only guys who can help u win 300+ games which is where i have doubts about dhawan also. Problem is everyone inculding them needs guys around the, Scoring a quick fire 30-40 also doesnt get u 300+ scores the point ur making right now, i made 2 yrs ago after CT loss that post shud also be there but thats where i learned this is the best pair in the world and they have gotten better as well. Also now is not the time Records are relative as discussed .... Kohli avgs 91 with a higher SR for e.g. as seen in one of the stats that I posted We cannot hope to rely on 1-2 batsmen in a major tourney with 5+ top teams .... We have to develop others and adjust / optimize as per the situation (not remain rigid) .... You could score 140 vs BD and get out for 40 of 60 vs Eng, whose RPO is 6.4 in Eng since 2016, for e.g. in the group stages .... Rohit would have an avg if 90 in this case but .... Pant has the capability to destroy (and score big) so there is no harm in trying him. If he succeeds, Ind would benefit immensely. If he fails, we still have batting to follow .... if we had options such as Shaw, Agarwal, etc., Pant could play in the middle order What happened earlier has no relation to what will happen in 2019 .... We may see some innovations in this WC .... As I said, this is about trying to get better! Edited February 16, 2019 by zen Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 10 hours ago, zen said: What happened earlier has no relation to what will happen in 2019 .... We may see some innovations in this WC .... As I said, this is about trying to get better! 1st fix the other problems rather then whats not also its easy to say , adjustment is a huge word - pant might still find it easy to adjust but its hard for guys likr rohit n kohli who have adjusted their game plans for years acc to one position N it wont happen also, if u remeber this idea was floating around in 2015 wc to when rahane batted well in 2014 and was said to have better technique to. Rohit clearly said he was not comfortable going back at 4 and then he came back n showed he is better then rahane n here we are talking about someone who hasnt even earned the place. I wnt even recommend rahul who himself plays at quick rate Link to comment
zen Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 7 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: 1st fix the other problems rather then whats not also its easy to say , adjustment is a huge word - pant might still find it easy to adjust but its hard for guys likr rohit n kohli who have adjusted their game plans for years acc to one position N it wont happen also, if u remeber this idea was floating around in 2015 wc to when rahane batted well in 2014 and was said to have better technique to. Rohit clearly said he was not comfortable going back at 4 and then he came back n showed he is better then rahane n here we are talking about someone who hasnt even earned the place. I wnt even recommend rahul who himself plays at quick rate If Tuktuk can play more freely than it will help Ind more. It is not ideal to have both Rohit and Kohli trying to play similar roles in the top order It was good to see Pant being tried out in the top order in the recent T20s, where he did well in scoring games Nikola 1 Link to comment
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