Timid mentality in test batting...

[zen]

2 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

what ever it suits you.... for me it is  very simple ......  Pujara deserves credit for the last AUS series performance. Despite that ,  his country wise averages in  SENA + WI is far off from 'adequate' .That shows as to how much  poor and inconsistant he has been thru out a 10+ year career.  Averaging 20 in NZL & WI , 29 in ENG, 31  in  SAF.

51  in AUS  hugely boosted   by 1 series performance. How much poor and inconsistant a batsman can be?

 

Another loser is Rahane who needs to kicked out ASAP .

 

No wonder we could win only 1  series in SENA  in this  decade despite  having comparatively far better bowling  unit strength .

 

Your points are not applicable because overall Pujara is the best in the top order in SENA .... Has a better record than even guys like Warner 

 

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England or New Zealand or South Africa

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013

Batting position between 1 and 3

Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 10

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
CA Pujara	2013-2020	26	48	1	1783	193	37.93	4521	39.43	5	7	4	206	3
M Vijay	2013-2018	20	40	0	1257	146	31.42	3031	41.47	2	7	5	161	8
S Dhawan	2013-2018	15	30	0	774	115	25.80	1343	57.63	1	2	2	98	2
KL Rahul	2014-2019	12	22	0	513	149	23.31	960	53.43	2	0	3	69	3

 

Of those who have played at least 10 tests in the top order in SENA since 2013, the overall avg is 28 excluding Pujara, who averages 38 (+10 than the avg of others) .... Since 2018, he has an avg of 43 (v 32 in the pre 2018 period) w/ 3 100s in Aus and 1 in Eng (Avg 40 in Eng in the last tour in the top order when the next best avg was 30)

 

In NZ recently, he was the 2nd highest run scorer despite the challenges in the top order (where everyone's avg was less than 30. Kohli's, who scored a total of 38 runs, was less than 10 for e.g.) so one should try to understand the context (and relative performances) before posting #s randomly  

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by zen

[waga]

1 hour ago, rtmohanlal said:

this  is a misconception....  we have batsmen like Jadeja & Pant( whose main  discipline is not batting) who averages 50+ in domestic,  That shows there are enough replacements in domestic who can easily replace Pujara and be as successful if not more at home. Pujara has been a  failure abroad as far as SENA results go by . 

If anything thats damning of domestic batsman pant and Jadeja just aren't average 50 bats. There is no replacement for Pujara. I mean you're already trialling Shaw, Agerwal, Vihari and none of them have done particularly well. 

It's the same thing that happed to us a few years ago. You have a bad run and instantly overestimate domestic talent that and want to throw out the baby with the bathwater and overly on a group of young talented aggressive stroke makers that dominate and also just don't exist.

[rtmohanlal]

13 hours ago, zen said:

 

Your points are not applicable because overall Pujara is the best in the top order in SENA .... Has a better record than even guys like Warner 

 

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England or New Zealand or South Africa

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2013

Batting position between 1 and 3

Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 10

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
CA Pujara	2013-2020	26	48	1	1783	193	37.93	4521	39.43	5	7	4	206	3
M Vijay	2013-2018	20	40	0	1257	146	31.42	3031	41.47	2	7	5	161	8
S Dhawan	2013-2018	15	30	0	774	115	25.80	1343	57.63	1	2	2	98	2
KL Rahul	2014-2019	12	22	0	513	149	23.31	960	53.43	2	0	3	69	3

 

Of those who have played at least 10 tests in the top order in SENA since 2013, the overall avg is 28 excluding Pujara, who averages 38 (+10 than the avg of others) .... Since 2018, he has an avg of 43 (v 32 in the pre 2018 period) w/ 3 100s in Aus and 1 in Eng (Avg 40 in Eng in the last tour in the top order when the next best avg was 30)

 

In NZ recently, he was the 2nd highest run scorer despite the challenges in the top order (where everyone's avg was less than 30. Kohli's, who scored a total of 38 runs, was less than 10 for e.g.) so one should try to understand the context (and relative performances) before posting #s randomly  

 

you are comparing Pujara's stats with 3 tried and tested failures. No wonder he would come out on top.

yeah I agree that as of now Pujara can't be dispensed with because there is no other  senior batsman of his experience in the team .That applies for Rahane too.

My whole point was based on the over all scheme of things. Pujara's stats  in  SENA + WI  is not at all adequate  of a 'successful team in SENA + WI' .No wonder we lost so

badly in ENG & NZL in this decade. Our over all 'SENA +WI' results  in this decade have been far off adequate. Puara & Rahane have  huge  role for that  track record.

 

My whole point  has been this. Pujara should have been packed off after first  round of   'SENA+ WI'  itself, but they persisted   with him. He continued with his below par performances  until out of no where pulled out that  miraculous AUS performance in 2018. Then I thought he would maintain that.Instead he  has gone back to his old ways ever since. Now  that is not adequate  if India are to win consistantly in  SENA + WI. 

 

Rahane's case is just the opposite.  You would marvel at  his stats in SENA + WI  after round 1. Not even the great SRT can claim to have that sort of record after round 1. 

But instead of  maintaining at least nearer to those high standards if not   maintaining as  such, he has fallen soo alarmingly  in the 2nd round. If he does not perform well in this on going  series he should be dropped for ever.

 

So it is evident that both Pujara & Rahane have been far off  from adequate 

 

Now too, the same seems happening with Rahul.  He has been given enough chances  but proven way off adequate. Rightly Vihari  was given chances , But, instead  of giving enough chances to Vihari , Rahul seems to replace him in the 2nd test. I think that is unfair on Vihari &  partiality shown towards Rahul. Again not at all a perfect way   to built an all conditional team in the long run..  

[zen]

45 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

you are comparing Pujara's stats with 3 tried and tested failures. No wonder he would come out on top.

yeah I agree that as of now Pujara can't be dispensed with because there is no other  senior batsman of his experience in the team .That applies for Rahane too.

My whole point was based on the over all scheme of things. Pujara's stats  in  SENA + WI  is not at all adequate  of a 'successful team in SENA + WI' .No wonder we lost so

badly in ENG & NZL in this decade. Our over all 'SENA +WI' results  in this decade have been far off adequate. Puara & Rahane have  huge  role for that  track record.

 

 

 

 

As already highlighted, your posts have major flows 

 

Performance metrics in top order and middle order are different -> 38 is a good avg in top order in SENA esp. for a subcon batsman in the current competitive environment

 

As posted earlier: 

 

 

 

Quote

My whole point  has been this. Pujara should have been packed off after first  round of   'SENA+ WI'  itself, but they persisted   with him. He continued with his below par performances  until out of no where pulled out that  miraculous AUS performance in 2018. Then I thought he would maintain that.Instead he  has gone back to his old ways ever since. Now  that is not adequate  if India are to win consistantly in  SENA + WI. 

 

Your comment continues to ignore performance metrics relative to factors such as batting positions and other batsmen as already explained  .... from my previous post:

 

" Since 2018, he has an avg of 43 (v 32 in the pre 2018 period) w/ 3 100s in Aus and 1 in Eng (Avg 40 in Eng in the last tour in the top order when the next best avg was 30)

 

In NZ recently, he was the 2nd highest run scorer despite the challenges in the top order (where everyone's avg was less than 30. Kohli's, who scored a total of 38 runs, was less than 10 for e.g.) so one should try to understand the context (and relative performances) before posting #s randomly"

Edited December 21, 2020 by zen

[rtmohanlal]

12 hours ago, waga said:

If anything thats damning of domestic batsman pant and Jadeja just aren't average 50 bats. There is no replacement for Pujara. I mean you're already trialling Shaw, Agerwal, Vihari and none of them have done particularly well. 

It's the same thing that happed to us a few years ago. You have a bad run and instantly overestimate domestic talent that and want to throw out the baby with the bathwater and overly on a group of young talented aggressive stroke makers that dominate and also just don't exist.

I agree that as of now Pujara can't be dispensed with because there is no other  senior batsman of his experience in the team .That applies for Rahane too.

My whole point was based on the over all scheme of things. Pujara's stats  in  SENA + WI  is not at all adequate  of a 'successful team in SENA + WI' .No wonder we lost so

badly in ENG & NZL in this decade. Our over all 'SENA +WI' results  in this decade have been far off adequate. Puara & Rahane have  huge  role for that  track record.

 

My whole point  has been this. Pujara should have been packed off after first  round of   'SENA+ WI'  itself, but they persisted   with him. He continued with his below par performances  until out of no where pulled out that  miraculous AUS performance in 2018. Then I thought he would maintain that.Instead he  has gone back to his old ways ever since. Now  that is not adequate  if India are to win consistantly in  SENA + WI. 

 

WRT Jadeja & Pant,  batting is not their  main discipline. Yet they maintain a 50+ avg: in domestic means  , even if they can average 35+ with the bat in tests, that is a bonus.

Them being left handers too adds to variety. India can play additional  6 batsmen(or 5 batsmen + 1 more bowler based on condition)  if both Jadeja & Pant too are in the eleven. 

[mishra]

Chepu Fails. All our bats fall. I have allways opined that Openers are key to test series. Unfortunately, we haven’t found none. 
 

Shaw is young but Mayank can not have back to back spineless inning. 
 

On positive note, I am happy that we wont miss Kohli.

[asterix]

BUMP...

 

[ThirtyD.]

Promoting Pant was a positive move and team management must be credited for this. It’s good to see that they quickly realized the downfall of having Pujara-Rahane-Vihari in the middle order. 
 

Kudos to Pant for brushing off his competitor in Saha, at least for the SENA tours.