Team India extend world record to 17 consecutive test series wins on home soil

[Suhaan]

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Vishy response on twitter:  Hey i can also play cricket

 

 

 

Sometimes I think @Gollum aka Vishwanathan and Ashwin are from same bloodline/family tree

Ashwin starts playing 16D chess

Edited March 11 by Suhaan

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Suhaan said:

Sometimes I think @Gollum aka Vishwanathan and Ashwin are from same bloodline/family tree

Ashwin starts playing 16D chess

 

[Gollum]

5 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Vishy response on twitter:  Hey i can also play cricket

 

 

 

Plays short ball better than Shreyas Iyer. 

[Vijy]

9 hours ago, Gollum said:

Plays short ball better than Shreyas Iyer. 

also seems to have a greater hunger than Iyer for batting

[deathmonger]

On 3/10/2024 at 11:56 AM, Trichromatic said:

 

India easily has over 1 crore population having over 170k USD. 

 

There are countries with lower wealth for top 1 cr population and doing well in sports.

 

Poverty is not the reason for India doing badly.

Naah, issue is distribution.

 

That 1 crore population is the elite and is in top white collar jobs, business, entertainment, politics etc. Those people don't go into sports. Sports is a blue collar activity.

 

In USA blue collar households with both parents working can get over 120-130k. India that must be around USD 5-6k.

 

First world countries do well cause their poor people are above a minimum.

[deathmonger]

On 3/10/2024 at 9:04 AM, BlueBlood said:

The issue is clearly focus on cricket and even in that sport despite all kinds of nonsense posts by stat padding worshippers India can't win a single cup.

 

Even in a game like Chess, the fitness and focus levels are meek due to malnutrition and lack of proper coaching system that focuses on thriving in stressful tournaments.

 

It's ingrained in the culture of better not to try than fail and look like a loser. This is why subcontinent has such poor Olympic hauls. 

 

So much nonsense about rich/poor... In China and even places like Eastern Europe, Africa etc. The poorest generally do really well in Olympics due to hunger.

 

Of all the cricket players, I have only seen Kohli show the commitment to peak fitness which allows him to not just have longevity at highest level but also stamina to perform when others are tired. 

 

The reason we lose Olympics is exactly the reason we lose world cups in cricket. Teams plan 4 years in advance on team composition and are not afraid to fail in bilaterals and other tournaments to find the winning combination and develop a cohesive team.

 

Look at England in 2019... the team was built over 4 years preparing for the world cup while India brought in has-beens and over-exposed Kuldeep and Chahal in order to stat pad bilateral tours and IPL. Had they been protected, they would have been lethal.

 

Even now this test series win is lauded as great achievement at home but had KL, Kohli, Iyer, Axar been featured, the results could have been the same. But there would have been zero transition to youngsters.

 

It's this brain dead level thinking that will keep sinking the team. You need to prepare your team for major tournaments and build a well rounded team through giving chances in bilateral. Instead we see idiots here giving applause to bilateral bashing through playing your best team and senior players all the time.

 

What's the point of still keeping Jadeja in ODI and T20? Or even Rohit, Kohli, KL, Iyer etc. They are never going to win you a T20 WC. But they are tagged along even in useless bilaterals where youngsters only get chance when someone is injured and expected to perform from day 1.

 

Look at Patidar, his career is over just because he failed in a couple of games. Yet, seniors get 20 games even if they fail.

 

People compare China and India blindly. They are not at the same level.

 

China is almost first world. Will be in 15-20 years. Their pc income is 5-6 times that of India's.

Eastern Europe is even further ahead.

 

It will take us 25-30 years to get to $10k-12k.

 

Africa is really bad at the Olympics. Most African countries don't even medal. Black people from USA and Europe do well.

 

Commitment, culture etc are rubbish excuses. The main issue is poverty. Korea was a single medal country until the 70s.

 

India is way stronger now than it was 10 years ago and 10 years later will be even stronger.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14 by deathmonger

[Kron]

1 hour ago, deathmonger said:

Naah, issue is distribution.

 

That 1 crore population is the elite and is in top white collar jobs, business, entertainment, politics etc. Those people don't go into sports. Sports is a blue collar activity.

 

In USA blue collar households with both parents working can get over 120-130k. India that must be around USD 5-6k.

 

First world countries do well cause their poor people are above a minimum.

Thanks to Indians for allowing Brits to divide and conquer. No one to blame but our own people. Getting involved in bribery, treachery, switching and just being slimy ruined our once strong nation. It's getting there but it will take another 20 years now

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, deathmonger said:

 

People compare China and India blindly. They are not at the same level.

 

China is almost first world. Will be in 15-20 years. Their pc income is 5-6 times that of India's.

Eastern Europe is even further ahead.

 

It will take us 25-30 years to get to $10k-12k.

 

Africa is really bad at the Olympics. Most African countries don't even medal. Black people from USA and Europe do well.

 

Commitment, culture etc are rubbish excuses. The main issue is poverty. Korea was a single medal country until the 70s.

 

India is way stronger now than it was 10 years ago and 10 years later will be even stronger.

 

 

 

 

 

it's not just per capita income (PCI). there are quite a number of countries that medal more than us with lower PCI

[deathmonger]

On 3/15/2024 at 6:30 AM, Kron said:

Thanks to Indians for allowing Brits to divide and conquer. No one to blame but our own people. Getting involved in bribery, treachery, switching and just being slimy ruined our once strong nation. It's getting there but it will take another 20 years now

yes 20-30 years

[deathmonger]

On 3/15/2024 at 6:36 AM, Vijy said:

it's not just per capita income (PCI). there are quite a number of countries that medal more than us with lower PCI

which ones?

 

name some?

 

The only countries which are poorer than India are the rest of the subcontinent and middle/black Africa (northern Arabs are richer as is South Africa/Botswana etc).

 

Kenya is the only country poorer than us who did better last Olympics and they have an almost similar pci plus proficiency in long distance racing.

 

 

Edited March 17 by deathmonger

[Kron]

34 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

which ones?

 

name some?

 

The only countries which are poorer than India are the rest of the subcontinent and middle/black Africa (northern Arabs are richer as is South Africa/Botswana etc).

 

Kenya is the only country poorer than us who did better last Olympics and they have an almost similar pci plus proficiency in long distance racing.

 

 

People don't realize unless government subsidies fees and costs like Russia and many top ranked countries or offer scholarships which india really don't for individual sports, it is incredibly expensive to affordable to pay for coaches. Ice hockey players pay nearly 20 k for ice time if you aren't near ice rinks. Training camps another 10 k. Per year in usd

 

Individual. Coaches for swimming, diving and artistic ballet go through the roof. Almost 20 k to 30 k a year depending on the institute. Dollars.

 

Even boxing coaches are not cheap and can cost upwards of 10 k per year if you do it full time but it can be compensated if you offer to fight for your club. 

 

 

[deathmonger]

4 hours ago, Kron said:

People don't realize unless government subsidies fees and costs like Russia and many top ranked countries or offer scholarships which india really don't for individual sports, it is incredibly expensive to affordable to pay for coaches. Ice hockey players pay nearly 20 k for ice time if you aren't near ice rinks. Training camps another 10 k. Per year in usd

 

Individual. Coaches for swimming, diving and artistic ballet go through the roof. Almost 20 k to 30 k a year depending on the institute. Dollars.

 

Even boxing coaches are not cheap and can cost upwards of 10 k per year if you do it full time but it can be compensated if you offer to fight for your club. 

 

 

People don't understand how poor India is and compare with China, Latin American countries, East European countries etc.

 

Those countries are "poor" compared to the west and the developed east. They are still way way ahead of India with 8k-16k usd pc. We are at around 2.6k usd.

 

American media might show Latin America/Mexico as some drug filled rebel filled hellhole (with a yellow filter) and Eastern Europe as some post communist hellhole (with a gray filter) but they are extremely normal, decently prosperous countries.

 

Even the non oil ME countries (Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, Iran) and SE countries (Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines, Vietnam) are richer than India.

[BlueBlood]

5 hours ago, deathmonger said:

People don't understand how poor India is and compare with China, Latin American countries, East European countries etc.

 

Those countries are "poor" compared to the west and the developed east. They are still way way ahead of India with 8k-16k usd pc. We are at around 2.6k usd.

 

American media might show Latin America/Mexico as some drug filled rebel filled hellhole (with a yellow filter) and Eastern Europe as some post communist hellhole (with a gray filter) but they are extremely normal, decently prosperous countries.

 

Even the non oil ME countries (Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, Iran) and SE countries (Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines, Vietnam) are richer than India.

Don't tell this to the brainwashed bhakts here.

 

They are staunch believers that in the last 10 years India miraculously became a first world country and would have beaten China if not for colonial masters stopping India from succeeding.

 

Nothing to do with lack of exports, blue collar upliftment or the fact that most of the richest people like Bajaj, Ambani etc. Are generational wealth since independence.

[Gollum]

We are poor, we don't have infrastructure, we don't invest in human resource development. Who is responsible? We the people. 

 

Have been an independent country for 75+ years, we can't keep giving such excuses. Countries which got independence around that same time period (40s-50s) have marched ahead of us. We aren't the only victims of colonialism, never mind that our governments have still not been able to build institutions that Brits managed to build a century and a half ago. 

 

I think there are too many factors which hinder our growth in sports. Desis in general....millions of Indians based in developed countries like USA, UK, Singapore, Australia, UAE, Saudi, Canada, Germany.....many of them doing well financially over there with exposure to best of the West, but where is the representation in Olympics or even cricket teams for that matter? Why have UK/Canadian Punjabis achieved next to nothing in sports? 2nd gen immigrants from Laos and Vietnam are doing better than us in sports in the West, never mind the Arabs, Chinese, Africans etc. 

 

Indian cuisine is a big reason whether people like it or not. Even our rich folks overindulge in carbs, very little protein/veggies, right kind of fats, fish oils etc. Very unscientific way of eating. Even our well to do people have so many deficiencies, what will they achieve in athletic endeavors? Majority Indians have Vitamin D deficiency despite being in the tropics, it doesn't get crazier than this. Government should look into these things, instead they are removing eggs from mid day meal scheme, one good cheap source of high quality protein....good luck serving those kids mountains of carbs and nothing else, and then hoping a Khabiib or Mbappe will emerge from among them. 

Edited March 17 by Gollum

[deathmonger]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

We are poor, we don't have infrastructure, we don't invest in human resource development. Who is responsible? We the people. 

 

Have been an independent country for 75+ years, we can't keep giving such excuses. Countries which got independence around that same time period (40s-50s) have marched ahead of us. We aren't the only victims of colonialism, never mind that our governments have still not been able to build institutions that Brits managed to build a century and a half ago. 

 

I think there are too many factors which hinder our growth in sports. Desis in general....millions of Indians based in developed countries like USA, UK, Singapore, Australia, UAE, Saudi, Canada, Germany.....many of them doing well financially over there with exposure to best of the West, but where is the representation in Olympics or even cricket teams for that matter? Why have UK/Canadian Punjabis achieved next to nothing in sports? 2nd gen immigrants from Laos and Vietnam are doing better than us in sports in the West, never mind the Arabs, Chinese, Africans etc. 

 

Indian cuisine is a big reason whether people like it or not. Even our rich folks overindulge in carbs, very little protein/veggies, right kind of fats, fish oils etc. Very unscientific way of eating. Even our well to do people have so many deficiencies, what will they achieve in athletic endeavors? Majority Indians have Vitamin D deficiency despite being in the tropics, it doesn't get crazier than this. Government should look into these things, instead they are removing eggs from mid day meal scheme, one good cheap source of high quality protein....good luck serving those kids mountains of carbs and nothing else, and then hoping a Khabiib or Mbappe will emerge from among them. 

Thing is sportspeople come from blue collar classes and our blue collar is extremely poor and can't even afford non-vegetarian even if they eat it.

 

The rich Indians and desis abroad tend to be more white collar and do not pursue sports and tend to be from vegetarian backgrounds/castes as well.

 

India has to become rich enough that even the poor people can afford good nutrition etc.

 

African Americans and Black/Muslim Europeans are poorer than their white counterparts but by virtue of being in a first world country have access to good diet and infrastructure and thus are able to dominate in sports.

 

Indira's years from 1960-1985 were a complete waste. India's pc income stagnated at that time.

Edited March 17 by deathmonger

[Real McCoy]

Thanks to @Gollum for preparing this to highlight India's dominance at home. For me, 2012 loss to England seem to have happened just a while ago. But its been more than a decade. We usually find faults of the Indian team right here in ICF. We have to be equally be full of praise when things like this happens. Hats off to the Indian team and congratulations to the other ICFers

[Vijy]

3 hours ago, Gollum said:

We are poor, we don't have infrastructure, we don't invest in human resource development. Who is responsible? We the people. 

 

Have been an independent country for 75+ years, we can't keep giving such excuses. Countries which got independence around that same time period (40s-50s) have marched ahead of us. We aren't the only victims of colonialism, never mind that our governments have still not been able to build institutions that Brits managed to build a century and a half ago. 

 

I think there are too many factors which hinder our growth in sports. Desis in general....millions of Indians based in developed countries like USA, UK, Singapore, Australia, UAE, Saudi, Canada, Germany.....many of them doing well financially over there with exposure to best of the West, but where is the representation in Olympics or even cricket teams for that matter? Why have UK/Canadian Punjabis achieved next to nothing in sports? 2nd gen immigrants from Laos and Vietnam are doing better than us in sports in the West, never mind the Arabs, Chinese, Africans etc. 

 

Indian cuisine is a big reason whether people like it or not. Even our rich folks overindulge in carbs, very little protein/veggies, right kind of fats, fish oils etc. Very unscientific way of eating. Even our well to do people have so many deficiencies, what will they achieve in athletic endeavors? Majority Indians have Vitamin D deficiency despite being in the tropics, it doesn't get crazier than this. Government should look into these things, instead they are removing eggs from mid day meal scheme, one good cheap source of high quality protein....good luck serving those kids mountains of carbs and nothing else, and then hoping a Khabiib or Mbappe will emerge from among them. 

nutrition is vital, as is having appropriate talent-spotting and nurturing programmes, something that many countries do better than us (also tied to what you wrote: infrastructure, HRD, etc)

[Kron]

Actually due to colonialism, many Indians suffered from malnutrition. When world war 2 happened, lots of wheat, grain, pulses were shipped off to feed English soldiers whilst the Indian ones starved. Yet they were tough enough to withstand the rigours of War and pulled through. Indians are survivors. Fighters. The thing is all we needed was unity

 Unfortunately we lacked that and that's why we paid for it. Cant believe how selfish and self centred our predecessors were that they would allow these foreign dogs to divide and conquer. We had too many traitors. 

 

Also this practice of fasting etc doesn't help. Many indian families don't eat meat on certain days either. 

 

Btw, people say blacks dominate sport. Yea American blacks and well off european countries that offer scholarships and subsidies to their black athletes. We can't afford any of that. You got some odd exceptions from Ethiopia here and there for a couple of events that's it. 

 

Also due to slavery, just remember only the strongest and toughest survived amongst black people. Hence the genes inherited happened to be of the best possible gene pool. Not that they are naturally superior. Rubbish. Everything is trained for. 

 

And most rich Indians abroad do not play sport. They just don't. Parents don't encourage it. So stop expecting athletes when the rich ones have zero interest. Blue collar ones are the tough people that can play sport but the blue collar people in India are poor unfortunately. So can't devote time for hobbies. Period. Lots need to change. When our government is less corrupt we will see more changes.

Edited March 17 by Kron

[deathmonger]

1 hour ago, Kron said:

Actually due to colonialism, many Indians suffered from malnutrition. When world war 2 happened, lots of wheat, grain, pulses were shipped off to feed English soldiers whilst the Indian ones starved. Yet they were tough enough to withstand the rigours of War and pulled through. Indians are survivors. Fighters. The thing is all we needed was unity

 Unfortunately we lacked that and that's why we paid for it. Cant believe how selfish and self centred our predecessors were that they would allow these foreign dogs to divide and conquer. We had too many traitors. 

 

Also this practice of fasting etc doesn't help. Many indian families don't eat meat on certain days either. 

 

Btw, people say blacks dominate sport. Yea American blacks and well off european countries that offer scholarships and subsidies to their black athletes. We can't afford any of that. You got some odd exceptions from Ethiopia here and there for a couple of events that's it. 

 

Also due to slavery, just remember only the strongest and toughest survived amongst black people. Hence the genes inherited happened to be of the best possible gene pool. Not that they are naturally superior. Rubbish. Everything is trained for. 

 

And most rich Indians abroad do not play sport. They just don't. Parents don't encourage it. So stop expecting athletes when the rich ones have zero interest. Blue collar ones are the tough people that can play sport but the blue collar people in India are poor unfortunately. So can't devote time for hobbies. Period. Lots need to change. When our government is less corrupt we will see more changes.

Yup, exactly.

 

Black people in US and Europe are the blue collar class but due to those being first world countries, they have access to good nutrition and facilities, allowing them to maximize their potential. Most European and American blacks live way better life than the vast majority of Indians.

 

As India becomes richer and the blue collar class become richer, you will see an uptick.

 

Even the Indian cricket team has benefited a lot from more blue collar rural guys coming into the fray compared to the more urban English speaking types pre 2000s. When you confine yourself to the upper classes, the pool is very small.

[BlueBlood]

6 hours ago, Kron said:

Actually due to colonialism, many Indians suffered from malnutrition. When world war 2 happened, lots of wheat, grain, pulses were shipped off to feed English soldiers whilst the Indian ones starved. Yet they were tough enough to withstand the rigours of War and pulled through. Indians are survivors. Fighters. The thing is all we needed was unity

 Unfortunately we lacked that and that's why we paid for it. Cant believe how selfish and self centred our predecessors were that they would allow these foreign dogs to divide and conquer. We had too many traitors. 

 

Also this practice of fasting etc doesn't help. Many indian families don't eat meat on certain days either. 

 

Btw, people say blacks dominate sport. Yea American blacks and well off european countries that offer scholarships and subsidies to their black athletes. We can't afford any of that. You got some odd exceptions from Ethiopia here and there for a couple of events that's it. 

 

Also due to slavery, just remember only the strongest and toughest survived amongst black people. Hence the genes inherited happened to be of the best possible gene pool. Not that they are naturally superior. Rubbish. Everything is trained for. 

 

And most rich Indians abroad do not play sport. They just don't. Parents don't encourage it. So stop expecting athletes when the rich ones have zero interest. Blue collar ones are the tough people that can play sport but the blue collar people in India are poor unfortunately. So can't devote time for hobbies. Period. Lots need to change. When our government is less corrupt we will see more changes.

 

Dude this excuse doesn't hold up after 30 years. China is a perfect example, before 2000 it was even more poorer than India in every aspect. Before that under Mao, even worse shape than African countries.

 

They invested heavily in infrastructure, talent, high speed rail etc. that allowed blue collar worker upliftment.

 

This idea of "colonial masters" having screwed us is getting old now and does not hold relevance. It would have until 1992 or so when all major countries were in equal footing.

 

Look at prosperity of Vietnam, Mexico, Brazil, Chile or even nations like Singapore, Malaysia, South Korea etc.

 

North Korea never had colonialism - even they though had their own starvation and proxy wars. But it's the poorest country compared to South Korea even though both countries share the same cultural footing.

 

Let's face the reality and call it the way it is. The fact that we even have cricket dominance is because of the British and we are dominating the sport because many countries of regressed. Look at Sri Lanka, Pakistan, West Indies and even a country like South Africa. These are playing like minnows now.

 

Only Australia and depending on the conditions England/New Zealand can be considered as real competition. Which means India is guaranteed semi final spot even if they select rank juniors in the team with Bumrah, Kuldeep as the "experienced" bowlers and everyone else being youngsters.

 

This whole patting on the back for a sport where #3 is guaranteed is laughably getting old. Sachin, Ganguly etc. played at a time when all the teams above gave a tough competition. At least 8 world class teams...

 

With the way SL, Pak, BD etc. are playing I doubt there will even be interest in cricket 10 years from now at this rate. It's high time India starts diversifying to other sports and olympics. Otherwise, there will be no money in the game of cricket. Are we even emotionally invested in the games anymore like in the past? I doubt it.

 

Same thing is being discussed with Baseball in the US now. It's waning in popularity precisely for this reason, there's no emotion in the sport anymore.