Our Champions are back and so is their manhoosiyat

[Chakdephatte]

India loses a series to Sri Lanka. 

 

And the OP compares it to our GOAT world cup campaign 

Edited August 5, 2024 by Chakdephatte

[Chakdephatte]

OK, we need transformation. But, manhoosiyat? Seriously?? 

 

These manhooses had such a freakish unbelievable world cup. Now the conditions have changed, and we need a fresh look. That does not make these players any bad. 

Edited August 5, 2024 by Chakdephatte

[Praveen 06]

2 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

In IPL as an opener he had one of the lowest SR. Both Abhishek and Jaiswal had a much higher SR. Abhishek was the first Indian player to have a SR of 200+ as an opener across the season. He had very similar numbers as Head. In T20s SR is one of the key metrics for openers and not average. That's the reason Rohit's selfless batting since WC is so celebrated as he may not score the same amount of runs but he has had the most impact.

 

Secondly those number of runs were a similar theme we saw in previous WCs as well. IIRC even in 2019 WC, 2017 CT and 2015 WC Kohli has scored bucketful of runs but couldn't do much in finals/knockouts. It's the results and impact which matters and not the no. of runs. If we simply look at no. of runs, and not the context we'll continue with KL and Iyer as well coz they also scored runs. But we all know what will happen in WC2027 if we go with the same group again.

 

Jaiswal is clearly our no. 1 batter at the moment as he has shown across Tests and T20s. No reason for  him to play Tests and T20s and not ODIs. Players like Parag and Rinku are at their peak and are multi-dimensional. They can contribute in bowling as well. Let's say even if they average a few runs less than a pure batsman, they'll have a bigger impact overall factoring their batting, bowling and fielding. This is the reason the T20 team looks so well-rounded. But in ODIs we're still playing the same old age cricket with one-dimensional players. These young multi-dimensional players have much more upside as even if they get out for a low score they can contribute other ways. That's why we also need to try out likes of Nitish Reddy and Venky Iyer to complement Pandya as a pace all-rounder. We need to have at least 7-8 players who're multi-dimensional but it's not possible if we go with this core group. Plus Pant over KL is a no-brainer across any format.

They can win 2026 t20 wc. Kohli, Rohit not there easy for them. If not kohli, Rohit ind would have beat aussie in terms of icc trophies count. Before Rohit-kohli,  we won everything 

[Praveen 06]

16 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

India loses a series to Sri Lanka. 

 

And the OP compares it to our GOAT world cup campaign 

Yes for me 2023 wc > 2011 wc campaign. One bad day we didn't cross the line

[Ultimate_Game]

1 minute ago, Praveen 06 said:

They can win 2026 t20 wc. Kohli, Rohit not there easy for them. If not kohli, Rohit ind would have beat aussie in terms of icc trophies count. Before Rohit-kohli,  we won everything 

 

If we don't win the 2026 T20WC it would be a huge disappointment. But we also need to focus on ODI team. The ODI team hasn't won anything even though it has been our strongest format over the last decade. And now we've started regressing in that format as well as bilateral series have shown over the last 2-3 years. Our main team couldn't beat SA in SA but when we sent our A team, they beat the SA team in ODI series.

 

It's becoming more and more apparent that the ODI team needs to be revamped. And you can't do so by keeping the same core. Else you'll get decent stats and reach knockouts like always (which we can given getting into top 4 is not a big deal in cricket), but will struggle at that stage once again.

[Ultimate_Game]

18 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

India loses a series to Sri Lanka. 

 

And the OP compares it to our GOAT world cup campaign 

 

Winning matters. That was not a GOAT WC campaign when we couldn't win the tourney. It was a consistent theme we saw over the last decade - inability to cross the final hurdle. It took revamping T20 side to do so in T20s and time to do the same in ODIs by getting more multi-dimensional players. The core batting group at 3-4-5 in Kohli-Iyer-KL Rahul hasn't worked and too one-dimensional.

[Praveen 06]

11 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

If we don't win the 2026 T20WC it would be a huge disappointment. But we also need to focus on ODI team. The ODI team hasn't won anything even though it has been our strongest format over the last decade. And now we've started regressing in that format as well as bilateral series have shown over the last 2-3 years. Our main team couldn't beat SA in SA but when we sent our A team, they beat the SA team in ODI series.

 

It's becoming more and more apparent that the ODI team needs to be revamped. And you can't do so by keeping the same core. Else you'll get decent stats and reach knockouts like always (which we can given getting into top 4 is not a big deal in cricket), but will struggle at that stage once again.

We can't blame Rohit, Kohli. They together scored 101 runs. I think ponting scored only one 50+ in sf+finals. But ponting won 3 wc as a player. It's team game

Edited August 5, 2024 by Praveen 06

[Chakdephatte]

17 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Winning matters. That was not a GOAT WC campaign when we couldn't win the tourney. It was a consistent theme we saw over the last decade - inability to cross the final hurdle. 

 

Nope. We were not the best team in 2015, 2019, 2021, 2022, 2016. 

 

Clear difference there. These are not comparable. 2023 was a clear outlier. 

[Ultimate_Game]

5 minutes ago, Praveen 06 said:

We can't blame Rohit, Kohli. They together scored 101 runs. I think ponting scored only one 50+ in sf+finals. But ponting won 3 wc as a player. It's team game

 

Yes but trying the same thing and expecting different results is foolish.

 

They've had their shot. In fact multiple shots. They've been in the team for nearly 2 decades and since the time they became the main players (around 2014-15), they haven't won anything in ODIs. This despite us having a much better bowling attack than the earlier ones. Both Bumrah and Shami cam eon to the scene around 2015 so they've had the best support from bowling than what the others did.

 

Difference is before them the main batsmen stood up at the crunch. Look at Gambhir in 2007 & 2011 WC final, or Dhoni in 2011 WC final. Or Yuvraj in both the tourneys. They were the main players and they stood up and performed when it mattered. Is it wrong to expect your most senior players to do so? Rohit turned the corner in 2023 WC final and his explosive starts were the reason other batsmen were able to perform as they had no RR related pressure for the most part. Plus they were backed by an excellent Shami, Bumrah and Kuldeep.

 

Anyways they had their shot and its time new generation get their shot. Let likes of Jaiswal, Parag, Pant, Rinku etc. get the same chances which Kohli, KL, Rohit etc. received. We haven't won anything in ODIs with the approach and players we had so time to shake up things. I thought WC 2023 final would be the swansong for most of them but they're still hanging around.

[Praveen 06]

4 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Yes but trying the same thing and expecting different results is foolish.

 

They've had their shot. In fact multiple shots. They've been in the team for nearly 2 decades and since the time they became the main players (around 2014-15), they haven't won anything in ODIs. This despite us having a much better bowling attack than the earlier ones. Both Bumrah and Shami cam eon to the scene around 2015 so they've had the best support from bowling than what the others did.

 

Difference is before them the main batsmen stood up at the crunch. Look at Gambhir in 2007 & 2011 WC final, or Dhoni in 2011 WC final. Or Yuvraj in both the tourneys. They were the main players and they stood up and performed when it mattered. Is it wrong to expect your most senior players to do so? Rohit turned the corner in 2023 WC final and his explosive starts were the reason other batsmen were able to perform as they had no RR related pressure for the most part. Plus they were backed by an excellent Shami, Bumrah and Kuldeep.

 

Anyways they had their shot and its time new generation get their shot. Let likes of Jaiswal, Parag, Pant, Rinku etc. get the same chances which Kohli, KL, Rohit etc. received. We haven't won anything in ODIs with the approach and players we had so time to shake up things. I thought WC 2023 final would be the swansong for most of them but they're still hanging around.

No issues. India will win every icc trophy from 2028

[Ultimate_Game]

8 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Nope. We were not the best team in 2015, 2019, 2021, 2022, 2016. 

 

Clear difference there. These are not comparable. 2023 was a clear outlier. 

 

In 2019 we were better than NZ. We had the most favorable SF opponent. In 2017 CT final we had Pak as the opponent. In 2023 we were playing at home. We phucked it up every time and our batting was the problem. In 2019 SF they couldn't chase 240, and in 2023 they wasted a great start given by Rohit.

[Ultimate_Game]

Just now, Praveen 06 said:

No issues. India will win every icc trophy from 2028

 

We don't want the same failures to waste Bumrah's chances to win.

[Chakdephatte]

2 minutes ago, Praveen 06 said:

No issues. India will win every icc trophy from 2028

2028 is South Africa's cup to lose. 

 

And how knows after that. Talent pool changes every few years, we may not be able to get as many top players again. 

[Praveen 06]

3 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

We don't want the same failures to waste Bumrah's chances to win.

Anyways  u n me can't decide the 27 wc team. Bcci will decides 

[Ultimate_Game]

9 minutes ago, Praveen 06 said:

No issues. India will win every icc trophy from 2028

 

Bumrah won't be around then. We need batters who can support him and it's clear the current set can't.

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, Chakdephatte said:

India loses a series to Sri Lanka. 

 

And the OP compares it to our GOAT world cup campaign 

He is same guy who started why do we need openers during the world t20 .The changed his tune on Rohit.

[Praveen 06]

3 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Bumrah won't be around then. We need batters who can support him and it's clear the current set can't.

Bumrah himself not great bowler in odis.

[Ultimate_Game]

2 minutes ago, Praveen 06 said:

Bumrah himself not great bowler in odis.

 

Bumrah and Shami are much better than the ones we ever had. Earlier teams had to go with likes of Sreesanth, Munaf, RP Singh etc. Zaheer was the  only half decent pacer we had. A Bumrah-Shami combo is easily the best pace attack we had in our history.

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, Praveen 06 said:

Bumrah himself not great bowler in odis.

Bumrah is very good in ODI's

 

Just that his numbers are so good in other 2 formats, it seems he is poor in ODI's when doing a comparison.

[Bigg Brother]

Overreaction man. Even youngsters did jack. Kohli will be there at 3 till 2027. No point of discussion. It is Gill who is worrisome who looked formidable till year ago. Fear he is turning into KLR.