KL Rahul: When will the torture end???

[deathmonger]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

If KL is confirmed as opener, then he shouldn't bat in middle order again. What is this confusion. Some times middle some times opening.

 

If Rohit retires tomorrow, I dont mind KL continuing to open. But if he hypothetically fails there, he has to be dropped, not slotted back to middle order at expense of others

KL actually has the technique to play seam relatively well on these pitches so think he should be in the team anywhere. Don't think there in anyone better than him to replace him.

 

Ideally he should open and Rohit should retire. Maybe by next year. And then get 2-3 years out of him.

[Majestic]

3 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

Again that poor record in Australia is because of the 18 tour.

 

His record in Eng and SA was also poor in 18.

 

Post 21 he has done well in the 3 series he has played in Eng and SA (opened in two).

 

Even in Australia now you can see he is doing well.

 

He has the patience and technique to do decently in SENA.

 

Not saying he will be some Gavaskar and average 50+ but with Bumrah and the pace attack if he can be a consistent 35-40 averaging batsman in SENA for the next few years and take India to 70-2 on an average, that will be very good. 2018 SENA tours India would be like 10-2 or something and then Pujara, Kohli, Rahane would have to pull Ind back. Only in MCG 18 and SCG 18 with Mayank, India had a good partnership for second wicket and those were India's most comfortable matches in that cycle.

 

Again in Lords 21, Oval 21, Centurion 22 which India won he set good foundations. Even TB 21 he played well but it rained on final day.

I agree with you and that is what I am trying to explain to @Lordtoo. KL is good enough to represent India in Test cricket especially overseas and better option than most of the other youngsters who have susceptible game vs bounce, swing, seam and pace and Sarfaraz is one of them.

Edited November 23, 2024 by Majestic

[Lord]

1 minute ago, Majestic said:

That doesn’t make sense because DDP don’t belong at this level. Fact is Sarfaraz also doesn’t belong which is why they just picked the batter who suited more for that position.  

 

How is that decided? If this is known beforehand why are they in the squad? There are other good batsmen in India who could have been tried.

1 minute ago, Majestic said:

That’s right. But they dropped Sarfaraz and picked DDP, which is what I am debating. Both don’t belong yet vs quality pace attack overseas. Sarfaraz is good vs spin for sure.

 

They dropped Sarfaraz for Jurel not DDP. DDP came in only because Gill pulled out. 

 

If Gill was fit and Jurel was injured, Sarfaraz would have played in middle order with Gill at 3. Both bat at different positions and are not competing.

[deathmonger]

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Shouldn't come back into LOI set up ever again. That is the only way he can show some level of consistency. Assign an anchor role and let him play that role until he starts sucking again

Yeah just squeeze out 2-3 more years from him.

 

2018 SENA we had good pacers and MO. Mostly lost cause Ind were always 10-2 and MO had to rebuild.

 

He was a vital part of the 21 Eng tour.

 

Even 07 Eng tour DK did well which helped the MO.

 

If for the next 3-4 years he can kill the new ball and get decent starts so that Gill, Pant and whoever replaces Kohli, Rohit can capitalize.

 

When he debuted in 2014 and was having that 14-17 run I thought he would be second best after Gavaskar. Still can have a good 3-4 year run like Rohit or Khawaja.

 

Also has done ok in the match he played against Eng in 24 so not that he can't play in flatter pitches.

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

KL actually has the technique to play seam relatively well on these pitches so think he should be in the team anywhere. Don't think there in anyone better than him to replace him.

 

Same is said about Kohli. We'll only if we try right options and back them fully.

2 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

 

Ideally he should open and Rohit should retire. Maybe by next year. And then get 2-3 years out of him.

 

Thats okay but then he should not replace middle order batsmen at next opportunity. Do one job only.

[deathmonger]

8 minutes ago, Majestic said:

That doesn’t make sense because DDP don’t belong at this level. Fact is Sarfaraz also doesn’t belong which is why they just picked the batter who suited more for that position. 

That’s right. But they dropped Sarfaraz and picked DDP, which is what I am debating. Both don’t belong yet vs quality pace attack overseas. Sarfaraz is good vs spin for sure.

Naah, DDP did well in the first Ind A game in both innings on a spicy pitch. Jurel did well in the 2nd. That decided it I suppose (along with net performances).

[deathmonger]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

Same is said about Kohli. We'll only if we try right options and back them fully.

 

Thats okay but then he should not replace middle order batsmen at next opportunity. Do one job only.

Except for the fact that Kohli is not showing similar output (was good in both SA series 22 and 24. Let's see what he does here).

 

I'm okay with him replacing MO batsmen if he is much better than those guys in this conditions.

[Lord]

6 minutes ago, Majestic said:

But they could have played Sarfaraz at 4 with Kohli at 3. Putting DDP in XI suggests they have no faith in Sarfaraz as well.

 

Not questioning Kohli and playing DDP above Sarfaraz are two different cases because Kohli is a senior player and Bhagwan who can’t be dropped.

 

Sarfaraz is no. 5-6 batsman. Kohli might not want to move from his position in this form. DDP for Gill was straight swap 

[Lord]

Just now, deathmonger said:

Except for the fact that Kohli is not showing similar output (was good in both SA series 22 and 24. Let's see what he does here).

 

I'm okay with him replacing MO batsmen if he is much better than those guys in this conditions.

 

so he if he fails in opening, back to MO, fails in MO, back to opening. Rinse and repeat with others dropping out for him. Seems cool.

 

He needs to take on one role and be judged accordingly. 

[Majestic]

6 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Sarfaraz is no. 5-6 batsman. Kohli might not want to move from his position in this form. DDP for Gill was straight swap 

Sarfaraz got 150 at #4 only. Kohli came to bat at 3 in that game.

 

Anyways, in overseas conditions, KL is ahead in reckoning to both Jurel and Sarfaraz. KL opened the batting only because they wanted an experienced player at top who is capable of negotiating new ball. If Rohit and Gill both played this test, KL would still have batted at 6 and Jurel would have sat out. Sarfaraz also would have sat out. Reason being KL recognised by team as their premier batter overseas in recent times and I already provided the evidence.

Edited November 23, 2024 by Majestic

[deathmonger]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

so he if he fails in opening, back to MO, fails in MO, back to opening. Rinse and repeat with others dropping out for him. Seems cool.

 

He needs to take on one role and be judged accordingly. 

If he fails, remove him.

 

He didn't go to MO because of failing as opener in SENA. He went to MO because Jaiswal came into the picture during 2023.

 

Similarly he is opening here cause Rohit and Gill isn't there. He didn't fail in the MO in SENA.

 

The TM value him highly in SENA.

Edited November 23, 2024 by deathmonger

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Sarfaraz got 150 at #4 only. Kohli came to bat at 3 in that game.

 

Anyways, in overseas conditions, KL is ahead in reckoning to both Jurel and Sarfaraz. KL opened the batting only because they wanted an experienced player at top who is capable of negotiating new ball. If Rohit and Gill both played this test, KL would still have batted at 6 and Jurel would have sat out. Sarfaraz also would have sat out. Reason being KL recognised by team as their premier batter overseas in recent times and I already provided the evidence.

 

Jurel has not done badly either. Did well in A game too where KL failed. Ideally he'd have been at 6 if everyone was available. 

 

Unless we pick different batting lineups for home and away, Jurel seems the one who can handle most conditions. Ofcourse eggsperience is lacking but deserves the backing. 

[Lord]

4 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

If he fails, remove him.

 

He didn't go to MO because of failing as opener in SENA. He went to MO because Jaiswal came into the picture during 2023.

 

Similarly he is opening here cause Rohit and Gill isn't there. He didn't fail in the MO in SENA.

 

The TM value him highly in SENA.

 

But fails in MO in Asia. Unless we are picking different teams for home and away, Jurel seems to have best potential for handling all types of conditions

[deathmonger]

2 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Sarfaraz got 150 at #4 only. Kohli came to bat at 3 in that game.

 

Anyways, in overseas conditions, KL is ahead in reckoning to both Jurel and Sarfaraz. KL opened the batting only because they wanted an experienced player at top who is capable of negotiating new ball. If Rohit and Gill both played this test, KL would still have batted at 6 and Jurel would have sat out. Sarfaraz also would have sat out. Reason being KL recognised by team as their premier batter overseas in recent times.

Yup. Also with the NZ debacle and Ashwin-Jadeja aging I expect home pitches to be a lot more batter friendly and like the Eng 24 series where the path to victory is Gill, Jaiswal, Pant, Sarfaraz etc batting big and then Bumrah, Kuldeep etc do their work. And on those pitches I think KL can do an okay job as an opener.

 

India's next home series is like a year away and Rohit, Kohli should ideally be gone by then.

[deathmonger]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

Jurel has not done badly either. Did well in A game too where KL failed. Ideally he'd have been at 6 if everyone was available. 

 

Unless we pick different batting lineups for home and away, Jurel seems the one who can handle most conditions. Ofcourse eggsperience is lacking but deserves the backing. 

Yeah Jurel should be in next year. Ro-Ko should retire by next year at max.

[deathmonger]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

But fails in MO in Asia. Unless we are picking different teams for home and away, Jurel seems to have best potential for handling all types of conditions

Both Jurel and KL should be there.

 

I think pitches in Ind will be flatter now so KL should do ok.

[Ultimate_Game]

Just now, deathmonger said:

Yeah Jurel should be in next year. Ro-Ko should retire by next year at max.

 

They should be dropped after BGT after the current WTC cycle is done. We need to clean house for the next WTC cycle and no point in carrying oldies when we have more than suitable options. I would take anyone from our T20 squad in a heartbeat over these two has beens.

[Majestic]

12 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Jurel has not done badly either. Did well in A game too where KL failed. Ideally he'd have been at 6 if everyone was available. 

 

Unless we pick different batting lineups for home and away, Jurel seems the one who can handle most conditions. Ofcourse eggsperience is lacking but deserves the backing. 

No, he won’t make it above KL anyways. KL gets a bit of advantage over others but that’s only because we don’t have many players capable of battling out in overseas conditions vs quality pace.

 

Jurel scoring some runs with the ball getting older and softer at 6 won’t be enough for TM to drop KL who hit a superb hundred in South Africa in last away tour. Jurel will get a place soon but not on cost of KL.

Edited November 23, 2024 by Majestic

[deathmonger]

5 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

They should be dropped after BGT after the current WTC cycle is done. We need to clean house for the next WTC cycle and no point in carrying oldies when we have more than suitable options. I would take anyone from our T20 squad in a heartbeat over these two has beens.

If they suck in BGT and are finished and Ind lose, drop them.

 

If they have okayish series (35-40ish average) and help India win then there is still some juice left so take them to the WTC final and England and hope they do something similar there too so India can win there too.

 

Post that there is a WI home tour which should be their last.

[Ultimate_Game]

15 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

If they suck in BGT and are finished and Ind lose, drop them.

 

If they have okayish series (35-40ish average) and help India win then there is still some juice left so take them to the WTC final and England and hope they do something similar there too so India can win there too.

 

Post that there is a WI home tour which should be their last.

 

We're not making WTC final. Losing to NZ at home shut that door for us. There's no point in continuing with them after the series for the next WTC cycle as it'll hold us back in the next cycle as well. May as well make the decision now and the team has shown - against Eng and in this Test - that we'll be fine. It's not as if we can't find others who can average in 30s.

 

Continuing with them would be ok for teams like NZ or Pak who don't have a big enough talent pool but we have decent youngsters to replace them. We have the whole T20 and India A squad which we can go to for replacements. There's simply nothing we gain from playing them other than kicking the can down the road and jeopardizing the next WTC cycle as well.