Team India needs lots of fighting mentality cricketers like Pant instead of prima donna sooperstars

[sensible-indian]

Just now, Lord said:

 

Ali was never good enough in either department. More suited to white ball in bits and pieces role.

 

Irfan was destroyed by Chappell by batting him at 3 when he was a bowler.

 

Sundar OTOH has enough experience of batting in top order already and bowling good number of overs.

Ali wasn't good - yes. But that doesn't mean he wasn't treated unfairly.

 

Dude was made into a lone spinner and thrown brickbats when he failed.

 

Can easily mess up the mindset.

 

"Irfan was destroyed by Chappell by batting him at 3 when he was a bowler."

 

Break it down further and see.

 

When you expect a bowler to play like a batsman, the bowler sees himself as a bat and focuses on it.

 

When chinks appear, confusion seeps in and if you aren't careful, you can fall by the wayside.

 

Irfan was killed by wrong expectations and his inability to understand that bowling was his MAIN suit. Chappel was just the easy scapegoat.

 

Very few players in the world are equally good at bowling & batting. For the rest, there is a strong and weak suit and if they aren't careful, it can unravel fast.

 

No point lamenting after its done.

 

Right now, there are some dangerous expectations being thrust on Sundar.

[sensible-indian]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Nah I expect him to do a holding role mainly. TM is wasting him by batting at 7-8. Can easily bat at 5

So you are basically saying what I am saying.

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Nah I expect him to do a holding role mainly. TM is wasting him by batting at 7-8. Can easily bat at 5

no. 6 would be a good balance.

[R!TTER]

14 minutes ago, Lord said:

Sundar is very capable of doing that job while being primarily a batsman. He just won't run through sides or pick wickets in a bunch

He isn't, you're overanalysing this stuff unnecessarily. When we expected Ashwin to run through sides on turners outside Asia+WI he failed in the handful of games on such pitches, same goes for Jadeja, Bumrah failed in WTC finals - you name it & we have examples aplenty!

Edited December 28, 2024 by R!TTER

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Ali wasn't good - yes. But that doesn't mean he wasn't treated unfairly.

 

Dude was made into a lone spinner and thrown brickbats when he failed.

 

Can easily mess up the mindset.

 

"Irfan was destroyed by Chappell by batting him at 3 when he was a bowler."

 

Break it down further and see.

 

When you expect a bowler to play like a batsman, the bowler sees himself as a bat and focuses on it.

 

When chinks appear, confusion seeps in and if you aren't careful, you can fall by the wayside.

 

Irfan was killed by wrong expectations and his inability to understand that bowling was his MAIN suit. Chappel was just the easy scapegoat.

 

Very few players in the world are equally good at bowling & batting. For the rest, there is a strong and weak suit and if they aren't careful, it can unravel fast.

 

No point lamenting after its done.

 

Right now, there are some dangerous expectations being thrust on Sundar.

 

I think in Irfan's case he failed because his bowling fell away itself. Batting was always a bonus. He was always a bowler first. Maybe the workload was too much on him being a fast bowler, but no one expected him to bat like a proper bat.

 

Heck Jaddu too came in as a bowler first and slowly improved his batting and now is more of a batsman.

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

He isn't, you're overanalysing this stuff unnecessarily. When we expected Ashwin to run through sides on turners outside Asia+WI he failed in the handful of games on such pitches, same goes for Jadeja, Bumrah failed in WTC finals - you name it & we have examples aplenty!

 

No one performs every game. Overall record is pretty decent.

[Lord]

5 minutes ago, Vijy said:

no. 6 would be a good balance.

 

I eventually see Pant there. Suits his more aggressive play

[Vijy]

Just now, Lord said:

 

I eventually see Pant there. Suits his more aggressive play

yeah, that's also possible.

[R!TTER]

His numbers will go down massively if we rely too much on him like a main spinner.

[sensible-indian]

3 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

I think in Irfan's case he failed because his bowling fell away itself. Batting was always a bonus. He was always a bowler first. Maybe the workload was too much on him being a fast bowler, but no one expected him to bat like a proper bat.

 

Heck Jaddu too came in as a bowler first and slowly improved his batting and now is more of a batsman.

Exactly. Once Irfans bowling started failing, its easy to delude yourself into thinking you are a batsman. Very dangerous.

 

Even Jaddu in the first half of his career was focused on bowling and then switched it up. Mind you, he is one of the few rare ARs who can be good at both.

 

Jaddu had INSANE reps in the domestics with the bat even tho he looked horrible in the international circuit.

Then the change came and there was no looking back.

[Lord]

Just now, sensible-indian said:

Exactly. Once Irfans bowling started failing, its easy to delude yourself into thinking you are a batsman. Very dangerous.

 

Even Jaddu in the first half of his career was focused on bowling and then switched it up. Mind you, he is one of the few rare ARs who can be good at both.

 

Jaddu had INSANE reps in the domestics with the bat even tho he looked horrible in the international circuit.

Then the change came and there was no looking back.

 

So what you are saying is that role should be well defined and not changed with output. I agree with that.

 

I fear they're seeing Washi as Ashwin replacement while he is a batsman first.

[sensible-indian]

Just now, Lord said:

 

So what you are saying is that role should be well defined and not changed with output. I agree with that.

 

I fear they're seeing Washi as Ashwin replacement while he is a batsman first.

Exactly.

 

On both counts.

 

If Sundar transforms into a proper spinner who can hold, take wickets and bowl long spells - thats different but its crazy to expect that right now.

[Lord]

Just now, sensible-indian said:

Exactly.

 

On both counts.

 

If Sundar transforms into a proper spinner who can hold, take wickets and bowl long spells - thats different but its crazy to expect that right now.

 

Yes even Axar is not Jaddu's replacement but will be used as such until we learn the hard way.

[Suhaan]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

we

We or he?

[Lord]

Just now, Suhaan said:

We or he?

 

we as in the team management,selectors

[sensible-indian]

3 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Yes even Axar is not Jaddu's replacement but will be used as such until we learn the hard way.

He isn't.

 

The moment he got better with the bat, his bowling dipped.

 

Now let's see if he can bounce back.

 

Its very hard to make both work.

Edited December 28, 2024 by sensible-indian

[Vijy]

5 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

He isn't.

 

The moment he got better with the bat, his bowling dipped.

 

 

Now let's see if he can bounce back.

 

 

 

Jayasuriya gave up being a serious bowler once he realized batting is where his true talents lie.

yeah, he went from one to the other.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, sensible-indian said:

I get you...sundar is a must for SENA...

 

But not as a main spinner unless the pitch has nothing for spinners.

 

Averages are just one metric.

 

Wickets per game is a crucial metric for a primary spinner.

 

Chiming in with 1-2 wickets when pacers are wreaking havoc is one thing...

 

But that doesnt necessarily mean he can carry the load as a primary spinner who needs to bowl like a workhorse.

 

We are expecting way too much from someone who is yet to do the hard yards.

 

The consequences of these expectation is that he will get dropped when his bowling performances dips...when in  reality, thats NOT his strong suit.

 

Tanush Kotian also falls in the same category.

 

 

 

There is very little expectation from spinners in most SENA venues except ones like Sydney. 

 

We ususlly play 4 pacers who do the bulk of the work. 

 

 

[express bowling]

31 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

So what you are saying is that role should be well defined and not changed with output. I agree with that.

 

I fear they're seeing Washi as Ashwin replacement while he is a batsman first.

 

Washington will be used as bowling AR in tests in Asia and batting A/R in tests outside Asia.

 

Just like Jaddu of the last 5 years. 

[express bowling]

We need to find a Shardul replacement and then Washington at 7 will be fine. 

 

SENA tests ....

 

6. Nitish

7. Washington 

8. New Shardul .. decent pacer who can bat.

9. Harshit

10. Pacer

11. Bumrah