Pak had used PL15 (longer range) missiles instead of PL15 -E ( export version of the PL-15 series ) against India

[rangeelaraja]

So 

PL-15 = Domestic version of Chinese PL-15 missiles that is meant for their own forces.

PL-15E  = Export version of Chinese PL-15 missiles ( with a 100 kms shorter range at the very least 

 

Been hearing a lot of youtube commentary that our jets did not maintain adequate stand off distance to be out of range of Pak's Chinese PL-15 missiles  -- because we assumed that Pak are using the export version (E) of the PL-15 series of air-to-air missiles. 

 

However the version that Pak secretly acquired and used from China ( just before the war ) was the PL-15 NOT PL-15E.  Our air force apparently did not factor this. 

 

The approach we adopted on May 10 was to attack from a greater stand-off distance. 

 

Can anyone else confirm this based on open source ? 

 

We won't repeat this mistake again - which showed in how we brutally trounced Pak on May 10. 

 

Also goes to show how China has been a hidden enemy in all of this. 

 

Whenever China engages in any stupidity against Taiwan - we should support Taiwan with all our might to pummel Chinese. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2025 by rangeelaraja

[mishra]

I think we should give some Credit to Pakistanis who have integrated Chinese missile fired from JF-17 to SAAB AWACS.

 

if I am to guess, there is probably no difference between PL-15 and PL-15E apart from Radar which is external component

Edited June 3, 2025 by mishra

[IndianRenegade]

Only IAF can confirm. The physical remenants of PL15 that missed the targets say they were PL15Es, the chinese spokesperson who was asked about the fear of reverse engineering also calimed it is PL15E. But they might have also just sent the longer range PL15 under the guise of PL15E.

 

The problem with CDSs statement isn't that he accepted the loss of jets, but he accepted IAF was tactically outmaneuver by PAF atleast during the intital air battle. But by not elaborating what it was he has left OSINT folks to spin their own stories. If IAF was going to admit to a tactical mistake they should have said what it was, else they should have not said anything about tactics. They should have stuck to thier initial stance that losses are part of conflict & not elaborated. 

 

Indian military needs to learn lessons on Info war, we are pathtic in that department. Pakistani had a dedicated command center to handle the info war, I will be suprised if we have anything close to it. 

Edited June 3, 2025 by IndianRenegade

[IndianRenegade]

Not sure how true this is, but if there is truth to this claim. IAF leadership should be wacked.

 

Quote

The loss of a Rafale is unexpected, given the capabilities of that aircraft’s electronic warfare suite. However, the same sources stated that the Rafale, the Mirage, and the MiG were almost certainly shot down as a result of a violation of the Rules of Engagement (ROE) that had long been observed between the IAF and the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). Both forces had been adhering to these restrictions until the night of May 7.

 

The ROE called for neither side to target and fire on the other nation’s aircraft as long as they stayed on their side of the line of control. The decision by Pakistan to fire on and shoot down the IAF aircraft while still in Indian airspace was a violation of that “gentlemen’s agreement.”

 

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2025/06/rafale-downed-inside-indias-retaliation-pakistans-failed-chinese-missiles/

[MechEng]

On 6/4/2025 at 12:45 AM, IndianRenegade said:

Only IAF can confirm. The physical remenants of PL15 that missed the targets say they were PL15Es, the chinese spokesperson who was asked about the fear of reverse engineering also calimed it is PL15E. But they might have also just sent the longer range PL15 under the guise of PL15E.

 

The problem with CDSs statement isn't that he accepted the loss of jets, but he accepted IAF was tactically outmaneuver by PAF atleast during the intital air battle. But by not elaborating what it was he has left OSINT folks to spin their own stories. If IAF was going to admit to a tactical mistake they should have said what it was, else they should have not said anything about tactics. They should have stuck to thier initial stance that losses are part of conflict & not elaborated. 

 

Indian military needs to learn lessons on Info war, we are pathtic in that department. Pakistani had a dedicated command center to handle the info war, I will be suprised if we have anything close to it. 

 

Exactly, share the exact details of how many jets India lost and how many PAF jets were shot down.

 

The whole narrative has shifted from underperformance of Chinese air defence in intercepting Indian missiles to how many Rafales were downed by J-10C. This is the hold they have over global media.

 

While our side is very sloppy with this.

[mishra]

1 hour ago, MechEng said:

 

Exactly, share the exact details of how many jets India lost and how many PAF jets were shot down.

 

The whole narrative has shifted from underperformance of Chinese air defence in intercepting Indian missiles to how many Rafales were downed by J-10C. This is the hold they have over global media.

 

While our side is very sloppy with this.

If they are keeping it secret as to what was actually downed means either of two things.

1. Indian Generals are hiding something very crucial in Chinese armour capability ie Some fundamental flaw to which they capitalised on. And why shouldn’t they?

 

2. IAF and PAF has gentleman’s agreement that they won’t fire at each others jets as long as we are within respective airspaces. Note that this agreement helps Pakistan more than india simply because of our Akash AD or Sudarshan S-400. Knowing Pakistani desperation, they broke that agreement for good. 

Long back, I commented on this forum on some topic, that With s-400 ee can declare no fly zone all over Pakistan and they can’t do anything about it.

 

Finally, Indian Army doesn’t breaks the rules. If it is fighting say a terrorist holed up in some house it could easily bomb that house but only shoots bullets to avoid/minimize collateral damage. I suspect this principled approach or point 1 is rooted in cause of loss of one or 2 jet(if we really lost jets).

Edited June 5, 2025 by mishra

[mishra]

We also need to give in to Chinese brilliance on PL-15. Apparently jet radars  can detect a missile and treat it as threat missile when missiles warhead is active. Else its just a projectile to them. Generally warhead is activated as part of missile release. What PL-15 did differently was its warhead gets activated only in last 25km to distance to target. For a missile hitting a Suprsonic target, its very small distance and risk of miss firing is very high considering jet speed.  But if jets are stationary, it mrans it is cooked. 
 

This peculiar characteristic explains 2 things. If we assumed ROE was intact, our jets would be stationary and had very little time to react. 25 km distance only. It also explains why we got a completely intact PL-15 cose some issue may have occurred in warhed getting activated in last phase of its journey towards our jets

Edited June 5, 2025 by mishra