How do we improve batting of tail?

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, crictime said:

 

 

Neither did Nitish Reddy. There are no proper all rounders kike Kapil, Botham, Imran, Sobers, Kallis, Pollock, Brian McMillan, Cairns, Shakib, Stokes etc.

 

Team has to pick another specialist bowler then like Kuldeep. Bowlers shoud be picked for wicket taking ability not batting ability.

 

Better pick specialist bowlers than picking Bits and pieces ones. 

 

One Jadeja as all rounder is enough. That too in India matches. Here they played 3. 

Stokes has not scored a ton in 2 years or taken a 5fer in last 5 years. How does he belong? 

[vvvslaxman]

9 minutes ago, crictime said:

 

 

Neither did Nitish Reddy. There are no proper all rounders kike Kapil, Botham, Imran, Sobers, Kallis, Pollock, Brian McMillan, Cairns, Shakib, Stokes etc.

 

Team has to pick another specialist bowler then like Kuldeep. Bowlers shoud be picked for wicket taking ability not batting ability.

 

Better pick specialist bowlers than picking Bits and pieces ones. 

 

One Jadeja as all rounder is enough. That too in India matches. Here they played 3. 

 

But Jadeja and SUndar clicked. You cannot expect every all rounder to click. Losing tests even from 430/3  due to lower order collapse is criminal. Specialist bowelrs have to be good first. Akash deep, Siraj, Bumrah are good.  Reddy can be replaced by kuldeep. That's it. Sundar is a must as he can bat like specialist lower down the order.

[crictime]

12 minutes ago, Lord said:

Stokes has not scored a ton in 2 years or taken a 5fer in last 5 years. How does he belong? 

4/66 and 55 runs at Leeds last month against India.

 

 

3 wickets and  27 runs against kiwis

 

4 wickets and 51 runs against Kiwis

 

80 runs in another test.

 

Yes, his performance has reduced since he stopped bowling alafter recurring injury in last two years or so but he is a proper all rounder. May not be taking 5 fers and milestone scores like 100 but he cobtributes with both bat and ball even in end stage of his career at age of 34. He has certainly been a proper all rounder imo. 

[crictime]

14 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

But Jadeja and SUndar clicked. You cannot expect every all rounder to click. Losing tests even from 430/3  due to lower order collapse is criminal. Specialist bowelrs have to be good first. Akash deep, Siraj, Bumrah are good.  Reddy can be replaced by kuldeep. That's it. Sundar is a must as he can bat like specialist lower down the order.

Disagree with that.

 

Nitish is not bowling so if he is only going to bat, select a specialist batsman.

 

Only 1 out of Jadeja and Sundar should be playing in England conditions. 

[Lord]

Just now, crictime said:

Disagree with that.

 

Nitish is not bowling so if he is only going to bat, select a specialist batsman.

 

Only 1 out of Jadeja and Sundar should be playing in England conditions. 

Are those specialist bats any good or should we just select them as they are specialist? 

 

Nair has also failed in both Tests. Sai failed in first Test. Sundar and Jadeja added important runs from 211/5 here. Being left handed also helps. 

[Lord]

14 minutes ago, crictime said:

4/66 and 55 runs at Leeds last month against India.

 

 

3 wickets and  27 runs against kiwis

 

4 wickets and 51 runs against Kiwis

 

80 runs in another test.

 

Yes, his performance has reduced since he stopped bowling alafter recurring injury in last two years or so but he is a proper all rounder. May not be taking 5 fers and milestone scores like 100 but he cobtributes with both bat and ball even in end stage of his career at age of 34. He has certainly been a proper all rounder imo. 

That's not good enough. You have to be among top bat or top bowlers of the team atleast at home. Right now he is bits and pieces. Doesn't even bowl much in Asia

[vvvslaxman]

4 hours ago, crictime said:

Disagree with that.

 

Nitish is not bowling so if he is only going to bat, select a specialist batsman.

 

Only 1 out of Jadeja and Sundar should be playing in England conditions. 

 

There is this theory that if someone has only one skill they are specialists. It is not necessarily true.  You can be one-dimensional and still useless. Many of our recent test wins would not have been possible without contribution from lower order all rounders. Heck even Bhuvi's 30 & 33 at Wanderers played a major role in 2018 win.  Bhuvi won the man of the match mainly for batting . He took 3/44 and 1/39 but his batting played a major role. Bumrah took fifer. He didn't win MOM because out of the four innings only once a team crossed 200.

[vvvslaxman]

Last 5 years

 

 

Indian tail (8-11) performance

 

In the matches that won

 

25 matches 23.06 average

 

In the matches that lost

 

18 matches  9.96 average

 

That is about 14 points difference

[vvvslaxman]

Edited July 13, 2025 by vvvslaxman

[vvvslaxman]

Average balls per innings faced by Indians in the last 5 years

 

 

[Number]

Akashdeep - has potential but thinks he is next Bradman, ends up playing one shot too many.

 

Bumrah - No talent, doesn't care either.

 

Siraj - Zero situational awareness.