How do we improve batting of tail?

[vvvslaxman]

In the last 10 years lack of tournament wins, series wins across the formats can be boiled down to one thing. One-dimensional nature. You just go with guys who are supposedly good in just one department. When they fail in that one department it just blows up in our faces. It forces us to have near perfect game in every match. Look at some miraculous wins/draws. It was always due to some tail contribution

 

1) SCG test Ashwin/VIhari defied them for 43 overs

2) Gabba  Sundar/Thakur

3) Lords  Shami/Bumrah

4) Axar/Ashwin 100 partnership at home against Australia

5) Ashwin/Iyer in Bangladesh

 

 

 

All 5 above were crucial in getting the wins. Lack of depth has hurt us in more than one ways.  We lost a test where we scored astoningly 5 centuries. Shocking inability to survive more than few balls is simply unacceptable in this day and age. Nobody stops bowlers from practicing batting.

 

Bumrah has scored 22 ducks in the five-day version of the game since the WTC began in July 2019, and Siraj is tied for second place with 12 ducks in 51 innings of 37 WTC matches.

[LordPrabhzy]

Our Indian pacers have stopped playing in FC Ranji games. IPL games are their priority- they never get to bat or there are no expectations for them to last for a long time. Even in international white ball cricket they dont get to bat... so how will these guys ever be able to hold the bat in Tests..

 

If our literally dont practice a skill for a format how on earth will you be able to do it when the time comes. Jason Gillespie for god sake made 200 runs as a number 10 , yes it was against Bangladesh  and it was in SC conditions, will our current crop of tailenders be able to survive against Kenya, Uganda level bowling let alone England and Australia

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, LordPrabhzy said:

Our Indian pacers have stopped playing in FC Ranji games. IPL games are their priority- they never get to bat or there are no expectations for them to last for a long time. Even in international white ball cricket they dont get to bat... so how will these guys ever be able to hold the bat in Tests..

 

If our literally dont practice a skill for a format how on earth will you be able to do it when the time comes. Jason Gillespie for god sake made 200 runs as a number 10 , yes it was against Bangladesh  and it was in SC conditions, will our current crop of tailenders be able to survive against Kenya, Uganda level bowling let alone England and Australia

 

May be they should organize a domestic  series between two teams that exclusively consists of tailenders.

[Ultimate_Game]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

In the last 10 years lack of tournament wins, series wins across the formats can be boiled down to one thing. One-dimensional nature. You just go with guys who are supposedly good in just one department. When they fail in that one department it just blows up in our faces. It forces us to have near perfect game in every match. Look at some miraculous wins/draws. It was always due to some tail contribution

 

1) SCG test Ashwin/VIhari defied them for 43 overs

2) Gabba  Sundar/Thakur

3) Lords  Shami/Bumrah

4) Axar/Ashwin 100 partnership at home against Australia

5) Ashwin/Iyer in Bangladesh

 

 

 

All 5 above were crucial in getting the wins. Lack of depth has hurt us in more than one ways.  We lost a test where we scored astoningly 5 centuries. Shocking inability to survive more than few balls is simply unacceptable in this day and age. Nobody stops bowlers from practicing batting.

 

Bumrah has scored 22 ducks in the five-day version of the game since the WTC began in July 2019, and Siraj is tied for second place with 12 ducks in 51 innings of 37 WTC matches.

 

Simple solution... drop players who're one-dimensional such as Siraj and Prasidh Krishna. Specialists should only be picked if they're as good as Bumrah or like Varun C in white-ball cricket. If you're not a difference maker or as good as Bumrah of Varun C (in white-ball), you've to be able to bat to get into the Indian team.

 

Pick players like Kamboj who can actually hold the bat. It's time we end the "5 specialist bowlers" who can neither bat, field, take catches, and aren't good at their primary skill either. Make the selection policy that you need to be able to have 2 skills to be considered, and you'll see things change over the near future. 

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Simple solution... drop players who're one-dimensional such as Siraj and Prasidh Krishna. Specialists should only be picked if they're as good as Bumrah or like Varun C in white-ball cricket. If you're not a difference maker or as good as Bumrah of Varun C (in white-ball), you've to be able to bat to get into the Indian team.

 

Pick players like Kamboj who can actually hold the bat. It's time we end the "5 specialist bowlers" who can neither bat, field, take catches, and aren't good at their primary skill either. Make the selection policy that you need to be able to have 2 skills to be considered, and you'll see things change over the near future. 

 

Exactly. Just because they can't bat to save their lives it won't automatically make them a good bowler.  This is all the more true in LOIs.  They are invariably pathetic fielders. COurtney walsh could get away without batting well and fielding well because he was a freaking legend. Not these guys. If you look  at the Gabba win by West Indies as impressive as Shamar Joseph's blitz with ball his batting played a major role in that win.

Edited June 25 by vvvslaxman

[Ultimate_Game]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

 

Exactly. Just because they can't bat to save their lives it won't automatically make them a good bowler.  This is all the more true in LOIs.  They are invariably pathetic fielders. COurtney walsh could get away without batting well and fielding well because he was a freaking legend. Not these guys.

 

I can tolerate duck from Bumrah coz he more than makes up for it with the ball. But not likes of Siraj and Prasidh Krishna. Go with likes of Kamboj and any other domestic pacers who can bat a bit. Enough of specialist bowlers who can't even hold the bat.

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

I can tolerate duck from Bumrah coz he more than makes up for it with the ball. But not likes of Siraj and Prasidh Krishna. Go with likes of Kamboj and any other domestic pacers who can bat a bit. Enough of specialist bowlers who can't even hold the bat.

 

Here Alzaari joseph made a valuable 32 in the first dig in a low scoring game. Same way CUmmins made 64. Lyon made 19. 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/west-indies-in-australia-2023-24-1375837/australia-vs-west-indies-2nd-test-1375846/full-scorecard

 

 

[aditya19]

Jadeja and thakur are miserable all rounders. If they are replaced with better ones it will start looking good.We can afford 2 # 11s.nkr is more of batting all rounder we need a bowling allrounder as replacement.

Edited June 25 by aditya19

[coffee_rules]

Pick all-rounders and improve their bowling?

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

I can tolerate duck from Bumrah coz he more than makes up for it with the ball. But not likes of Siraj and Prasidh Krishna. Go with likes of Kamboj and any other domestic pacers who can bat a bit. Enough of specialist bowlers who can't even hold the bat.

He comes at #9 , we can't afford ducks from all of 9, 10 and 11. He should drop down and let others bat there. 

[Ultimate_Game]

1 minute ago, coffee_rules said:

He comes at #9 , we can't afford ducks from all of 9, 10 and 11. He should drop down and let others bat there. 

 

Bumrah should come in at 11 once we select bowlers who can bat. Bumrah at 9, or even 10 is too high a spot for him.

[sage]

Instead of IPL causing experimentation and diversity in our cricket it has led to the opposite. Bowlers and batsmen are too worried about getting injured so they don’t practice extra skills

[Trichromatic]

Make Pant bat at 6.

 

[vvvslaxman]

One of the biggest downside of weak tail is , it impacts the batting of top order as well. Given the lack of trust from top order they throw their wicket away even when they are well set because of who is at other end. There is a cascading effect that is causing to underperform with bat.

[Frustrated]

Bumrah: 22 ducks in last 5 yrs . His batting is worse than Ventakesh Prasad & Munaf Patel.  LOL

[Ravi_Shastri]

39 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

Bumrah: 22 ducks in last 5 yrs . His batting is worse than Ventakesh Prasad & Munaf Patel.  LOL

That one over against Broad somehow made him and the management feel he is a better batter than he id

[singhvivek141]

9 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

He comes at #9 , we can't afford ducks from all of 9, 10 and 11. He should drop down and let others bat there. 

If Bumrah comes at 9, image the **** shows we're playing at no 10,11.
Someone like Akashdeep, Shami, Harshit type bowlers can bat at 9...Bumrah is a no 10 and a capable no 10.
It reminds me of the days when Srinath was used at no 8, just coz he was better bat than likes of Venkatesh, Raju, Maninder, Ashish Kapoor etc

[sage]

England’s number 9 (Brydon Carse; bats 7 for his county, averages 30 and has multiple hundreds) is on equal footing with India’s number 9 (Jasprit Bumrah; 27 ducks in 71 innings)

[Prabhdeep Singh]

Just send a directive via BCCI to grassroots that you have to be all rounder to get picked at junior level, put a premium on all rounders who bowl seam.

 

You will have foundation of both batting and bowling before you start specialising in one aspect at senior cricket.

 

I am sure you will have a assembly line of seam bowling all rounders.

[LordPrabhzy]

3 hours ago, Prabhdeep Singh said:

Just send a directive via BCCI to grassroots that you have to be all rounder to get picked at junior level, put a premium on all rounders who bowl seam.

 

You will have foundation of both batting and bowling before you start specialising in one aspect at senior cricket.

 

I am sure you will have a assembly line of seam bowling all rounders.

How on earth will that work when the IPL has made the all rounder role practically redundant with this Impact sub rule- grassroot players prepare for IPL and not for red ball. You wont find many genuine quick seam allrounders who are good at both- Pandya is the last one we have