jf1gp_1 Posted January 10 Posted January 10 21 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: It had to be done.. yes 8 billions is a lot and almost SSN esque number but IN had to get this deal out of of the way to focus on P 76 and P18. It has been 15 years of non stop delays The deal should have been signed in 2023 itself when German chancellor last came with a $5.2 billion deal. Don't think money is a problem. Every year govt gets unspent budget back which is usually in lakhs of cr
Lone Wolf Posted January 10 Posted January 10 2 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said: Don't think money is a problem. Every year govt gets unspent budget back which is usually in lakhs of cr Money is the problem. IN gets least budget out of the tri services. In a way this prompted Admirals to look inwards and Indigenous shipbuilding has been boosted thanks to it. Submarine front is where they were helpless as it needs time, money and investment in R&D. Let's hope we get required ToT from Germans. French in the past never allowed it. IAF relied on imports, delays and its situation is grim. Squadron numbers have fallen to a point where they can barely hold off PAF..
jf1gp_1 Posted January 10 Posted January 10 10 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: Money is the problem. IN gets least budget out of the tri services. In a way this prompted Admirals to look inwards and Indigenous shipbuilding has been boosted thanks to it. Submarine front is where they were helpless as it needs time, money and investment in R&D. Let's hope we get required ToT from Germans. French in the past never allowed it. IAF relied on imports, delays and its situation is grim. Squadron numbers have fallen to a point where they can barely hold off PAF.. Believe me money is not the problem. Everything else you listed is the actual problem.
Lone Wolf Posted January 10 Posted January 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, jf1gp_1 said: Believe me money is not the problem. Everything else you listed is the actual problem. R&D literally needs money, Kaveri is not funded coz of monetary reasons as well as lack of push from the top. For eg Invest 8 billion in Kaveri engine program results would be there to see in 5-6 years time. Edited January 10 by Lone Wolf
singhvivek141 Posted January 10 Posted January 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: R&D literally needs money, Kaveri is not funded coz of monetary reasons as well as lack of push from the top. For eg Invest 8 billion in Kaveri engine program results would be there to see in 5-6 years time. R&D is only useful if people take their job seriously. HAL is poured billions of money every year, let they just drag their feet with no accountability. Unless PSU are mandated to work 9 hours with performance linked promotions and competition, nothing will change on the ground. https://defence.in/threads/hals-light-utility-helicopter-luh-fails-to-meet-indian-navys-maritime-standards-chief-confirming-no-induction-planned.16544/#post-78732 Edited January 10 by singhvivek141 raki05 1
G_B_ Posted January 10 Posted January 10 14 hours ago, IndianRenegade said: I see sources with different data, these seem to sugget availability as high as 90%. what is the source of the tweet? https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/aerospace-news/2025/focus-is-the-french-rafale-fighter-jet-a-real-alternative-to-the-us-made-f-35-portugal-planned-to-purchase https://www.flyajetfighter.com/actual-availability-rates-for-the-f-22-rafale-su-35-and-gripen-e/#google_vignette https://defensemirror.com/news/17812/Rafale_Fighter_Jet_Serviceability_Rate_With_French_Air_Force_Is_48_5_Percent I have been reading the Uk national audit reports for f35b rates and they claim its actually 30%.The rates with the us navy and airforce is 50%. In comparsion the f16 amd f18 rates with usa are 60%. I think countries apart from the usa are struggling with the f35. In comparison the Eurofighter rates with uk is around 55 to 60% despite these frames being much older. If you back calculate the uk only has 60 to 70 jets available at one time. This number will decline as eurofighters gets older and f35 get older and harder to maintain. The point to note is gen 4.5 seems to be a sweet spot in availability and performance. I feel india needs to maintain a gen 5 strike force of 100. Probably still need tejas mk2 to be inducted in mass numbers or super sukhoi numbers need to expand. The later makes sense.
G_B_ Posted January 10 Posted January 10 And building in this, if french have 48% rates. Any other users will have lesser rates. I feel based on above india should order maybe 65 more jets and assume 30 to 40 of these will be ready to use at any one point. Forget the tot. I mean 30% availability for f35b for uk is a joke.
singhvivek141 Posted January 10 Posted January 10 3 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: It had to be done.. yes 8 billions is a lot and almost SSN esque number but IN had to get this deal out of of the way to focus on P 76 and P18. It has been 15 years of non stop delays The deal should have been signed in 2023 itself when German chancellor last came with a $5.2 billion deal. P76 & P77 both will complete around 2037 (give or take an year or two). P77 is probably a priority as its a Nuclear Attack Submarine and even BARC is working hard for 190MW Nuclear Reactor which will be the heart of S5 SSBNs.
G_B_ Posted January 10 Posted January 10 @Lone Wolf What is the reliability of the t214 sub? It seems to be not working out for Greece...
Lone Wolf Posted January 10 Posted January 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said: P76 & P77 both will complete around 2037 (give or take an year or two). P77 is probably a priority as its a Nuclear Attack Submarine and even BARC is working hard for 190MW Nuclear Reactor which will be the heart of S5 SSBNs. Type 212 CD is exclusive for NATO as it is state of the art but Type 214 NG (export variant) is its closest possible derivative... Offers similar with quite close AIP stealth capability as well as modified hull from Type 214. @G_B_ as you asked. My only issue with it is lack of VLS capability for such a humongous price... And it is supposed to be Next gen. But can't have it all. For now we need numbers desperately. Project 76 is perhaps when we will get that VLS tech on SSN's. Edited January 10 by Lone Wolf
singhvivek141 Posted January 10 Posted January 10 43 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: My only issue with it is lack of VLS capability for such a humongous price... And it is supposed to be Next gen. But can't have it all. For now we need numbers desperately. Project 76 is perhaps when we will get that VLS tech on SSN's. VLS Capability in SSK's is currently only with South Korea's KSS Class Submarines. Scorpene class, 214, Yuan or Lada (Russian) Submarines...none of them have VLS and rely on Torpedo's. P76 and P77 both will have VLS capability though, carrying Nirbhay and Brahmos missiles. Though some reports are saying that the newer submarines manufactured by Thyssenkrupp will have VLS Capability. Not sure how much it's true. https://defence.in/threads/indian-navys-p-75i-subs-to-carry-800-km-range-brahmos-er-on-vertical-launch-system-allowing-long-range-strike-while-staying-submerged.14889/
Lone Wolf Posted January 12 Posted January 12 On 1/10/2026 at 5:30 PM, singhvivek141 said: VLS Capability in SSK's is currently only with South Korea's KSS Class Submarines. Scorpene class, 214, Yuan or Lada (Russian) Submarines...none of them have VLS and rely on Torpedo's. P76 and P77 both will have VLS capability though, carrying Nirbhay and Brahmos missiles. Though some reports are saying that the newer submarines manufactured by Thyssenkrupp will have VLS Capability. Not sure how much it's true. https://defence.in/threads/indian-navys-p-75i-subs-to-carry-800-km-range-brahmos-er-on-vertical-launch-system-allowing-long-range-strike-while-staying-submerged.14889/ I think it's given that P76 P 77 both will have VLS tech. KSS III class of South Korea is the currently operational SSK's with VLS capability as you said. Chinese will be next followed by Japs.. then come Turks which will likely supply these VLS powered ones to Pooks in next decade. Around the time we will have ours through P76. Type 214 NG design which is our P75I variant design doesn't support VLS system.
IndianRenegade Posted January 12 Posted January 12 (edited) On 1/10/2026 at 12:56 AM, G_B_ said: And building in this, if french have 48% rates. Any other users will have lesser rates. I feel based on above india should order maybe 65 more jets and assume 30 to 40 of these will be ready to use at any one point. Forget the tot. I mean 30% availability for f35b for uk is a joke. The article seems to be from 2016, there is some info from 2022 that France made improvements to this. We are in 2026, so hopefully things are little bit more better considering they have been selling well & the support infrastructure has matured. https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1469215 Edited January 12 by IndianRenegade G_B_ 1
singhvivek141 Posted January 12 Posted January 12 India Likely to Receive Fourth S-400 Squadron by May 2026 as Russia Stabilises Supply Chains https://defence.in/threads/india-likely-to-receive-fourth-s-400-squadron-by-may-2026-as-russia-stabilises-supply-chains.16576/ So 4th S400 is getting delivered. HAL is also promising delivery of atleast 5-6 Tejas jets by March 2026. Late but little boost to our defensive and offensive capability.
singhvivek141 Posted January 12 Posted January 12 Another news about S5 SSBN, currently 2 are undergoing construction in dockyard. Its to carry 12 K5/K6 ICBM missiles...along with short range K15. No wonder, the direct supervision from PMO has ensured our SSBN program goes at a fast pace without facing any operational/logistical delays. G_B_, raki05 and Lone Wolf 2 1
G_B_ Posted January 12 Posted January 12 33 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: India Likely to Receive Fourth S-400 Squadron by May 2026 as Russia Stabilises Supply Chains https://defence.in/threads/india-likely-to-receive-fourth-s-400-squadron-by-may-2026-as-russia-stabilises-supply-chains.16576/ So 4th S400 is getting delivered. HAL is also promising delivery of atleast 5-6 Tejas jets by March 2026. Late but little boost to our defensive and offensive capability. As i said russia ukraine ending is need of hour. raki05 and singhvivek141 1 1
IndianRenegade Posted January 13 Posted January 13 (edited) Looks like evidence of probable p@rki f16 debris downed during op sindhoor. Edited January 13 by IndianRenegade Lone Wolf and raki05 2
Lone Wolf Posted January 13 Posted January 13 CoAs getting dragged today for multiple dodgy statements.. this takes the cake though
Lone Wolf Posted January 13 Posted January 13 7 hours ago, IndianRenegade said: Looks like evidence of probable p@rki f16 debris downed during op sindhoor. 10x times better use of the medium than those DEI enabled PC's last year
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