Lone Wolf Posted January 13 Posted January 13 (edited) 19 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: India Likely to Receive Fourth S-400 Squadron by May 2026 as Russia Stabilises Supply Chains https://defence.in/threads/india-likely-to-receive-fourth-s-400-squadron-by-may-2026-as-russia-stabilises-supply-chains.16576/ So 4th S400 is getting delivered. HAL is also promising delivery of atleast 5-6 Tejas jets by March 2026. Late but little boost to our defensive and offensive capability. There were talks about Pantsir as well as it's absence was felt in Op Sindoor. https://defence.in/threads/russian-pantsir-s1m-emerges-as-strong-contender-for-indian-armys-futuristic-cadet-tracked-platform-programme.16283/ Seems DRDO's indigenous SHORAD systems aren't in mature state to receive orders. Kusha seems a long while away as well. These new S400 will arrive with Chinese components as well...will be intresting if we place an order for additional regiments. Edited January 13 by Lone Wolf singhvivek141 and G_B_ 2
G_B_ Posted January 13 Posted January 13 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: There were talks about Pantsir as well as it's absence was felt in Op Sindoor. https://defence.in/threads/russian-pantsir-s1m-emerges-as-strong-contender-for-indian-armys-futuristic-cadet-tracked-platform-programme.16283/ Seems DRDO's indigenous SHORAD systems aren't in mature state to receive orders. Kusha seems a long while away as well. These new S400 will arrive with Chinese components as well...will be intresting if we place an order for additional regiments. This is the turkey one right? The s400.
singhvivek141 Posted January 13 Posted January 13 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: There were talks about Pantsir as well as it's absence was felt in Op Sindoor. https://defence.in/threads/russian-pantsir-s1m-emerges-as-strong-contender-for-indian-armys-futuristic-cadet-tracked-platform-programme.16283/ Seems DRDO's indigenous SHORAD systems aren't in mature state to receive orders. Kusha seems a long while away as well. These new S400 will arrive with Chinese components as well...will be intresting if we place an order for additional regiments. Kusha M1 is ready for testing, last I heard. M2 and M3 will take time...probably the delay will go till 2027-28 is the reason why S400 is signed. Ab delay hai to hai, uska kuch kar nahi sakte. Just hope we are able to bide our time till our homegrown system is ready. Though large amount of Akash AD orders are being given and army is using the older artillery guns to mitigate the drone issue. There are also discussions of DRDO working on network jamming suite, but thats kept under the wraps for now. Lone Wolf 1
Lone Wolf Posted January 13 Posted January 13 10 minutes ago, G_B_ said: This is the turkey one right? The s400. No Pantsir is different. Pantsir S1 M has a detection range around 75km and interception range around 30km. It's a system used to protect larger S400 batteries..and armoured units.
Lone Wolf Posted January 13 Posted January 13 9 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Kusha M1 is ready for testing, last I heard. M2 and M3 will take time...probably the delay will go till 2027-28 is the reason why S400 is signed. Ab delay hai to hai, uska kuch kar nahi sakte. Just hope we are able to bide our time till our homegrown system is ready. Though large amount of Akash AD orders are being given and army is using the older artillery guns to mitigate the drone issue. There are also discussions of DRDO working on network jamming suite, but thats kept under the wraps for now. Yeah Pralay program took a decade almost to mature and to be ready for induction. DRDO takes it sweet time as it is a sarkari babu organisation. Going with that estimate these trials and progression alone will take roughly early 2032-33 to be given mass orders.
Lone Wolf Posted January 13 Posted January 13 France ne mast choona lagaya.. they legit are funding their 6th gen through us. No source code given as expected
rangeelaraja Posted January 13 Author Posted January 13 5 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: France ne mast choona lagaya.. they legit are funding their 6th gen through us. No source code given as expected Why do you say that ? Not giving source code is not an impediment to integrating scalp and Meteor - only Russian and Israeli ordnance.
randomGuy Posted January 13 Posted January 13 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: France ne mast choona lagaya.. they legit are funding their 6th gen through us. No source code given as expected What's need of fighter jets in today's world of satellites, drones, missiles (such as brahmos, oreshnik), AI, Air defence systems ? Edited January 13 by randomGuy
Lone Wolf Posted January 13 Posted January 13 4 minutes ago, randomGuy said: What's need of fighter jets in today's world of satellites, drones, missiles (such as brahmos, oreshnik), AI, Air defence systems ? Modern fighter jets are less susceptible to EW warfare and systematic jamming than drones. Can carry larger, more diverse payloads and also air to air battle advantage An unmanned jet fighter/drone with range of an F35, payload capacity, electronics, stealth would cost roughly the same as an F35 if ever made. randomGuy 1
Lone Wolf Posted January 13 Posted January 13 (edited) 28 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said: Why do you say that ? Not giving source code is not an impediment to integrating scalp and Meteor - only Russian and Israeli ordnance. That scalp and Meteor inventory won't last for long in a event of war. We will be forever dependent. At cost of $36 billion they are simply ripping us off in broad daylight. Rudram 3 and Astra Mk3 will mog both of these missiles brutally when we can assemble them in mass but won't be able to integrate. Not to mention our own AESA radar. Edited January 13 by Lone Wolf
Lone Wolf Posted January 13 Posted January 13 (edited) Blowback is significant... Let's see if DAC approves it. Except dalals no one is appreciating this. It's a bad bad deal they are offering for such a humongous price Edited January 13 by Lone Wolf
Lone Wolf Posted January 13 Posted January 13 56D chess move will be GoI is testing waters, they know deal is bad and things are dire. Can't buy a 4th gen fighter in the era of 5th gen at such a price surely with no Source code/ToT. And then F35 deal will be announced with trade deal signed. Everyone goes happy. At this point I am hoping this is the case lol.
singhvivek141 Posted January 13 Posted January 13 7 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: 56D chess move will be GoI is testing waters, they know deal is bad and things are dire. Can't buy a 4th gen fighter in the era of 5th gen at such a price surely with no Source code/ToT. And then F35 deal will be announced with trade deal signed. Everyone goes happy. At this point I am hoping this is the case lol. F35 is an extremely costly affair. Its maintenance is huge and it requires specialised engineers to manage the affairs. If we go for F35, we will be heavily dependent on USA. Rafale is tried and tested, our IAF squadron numbers are dwindling down horribly. We are using scraps from other countries to maintain our Jaguar fleet. Our other option was Su57, but no one is proceeding ahead with that due to "unknown" reasons. Tejas fleet is anyway proceeding ahead drop by drop.
Lone Wolf Posted January 13 Posted January 13 (edited) 41 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: F35 is an extremely costly affair. Its maintenance is huge and it requires specialised engineers to manage the affairs. If we go for F35, we will be heavily dependent on USA. Rafale is tried and tested, our IAF squadron numbers are dwindling down horribly. We are using scraps from other countries to maintain our Jaguar fleet. Our other option was Su57, but no one is proceeding ahead with that due to "unknown" reasons. Tejas fleet is anyway proceeding ahead drop by drop. F35 for what it's worth still stealth.. if that's enough for us to get Organtua to sign a favourable trade deal then it's not a bad deal. Get that GE 404 and GE 414 engines in advance for Tejas Mk1a, and Mk2 Also Per unit cost of F35 seems lesser than this deal. That's why it's just so unreasonable. A 4th gen Rafale at this price and at barely 25-30% IC with no scope of ToT whatsoever is a bad deal. They will start arriving post 2030 as well when world would be exclusively looking for only 5th gen fighters and 6th gen fighters would be close to reality in that time. Edited January 13 by Lone Wolf
singhvivek141 Posted January 13 Posted January 13 22 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: F35 for what it's worth still stealth.. if that's enough for us to get Organtua to sign a favourable trade deal then it's not a bad deal. Get that GE 404 and GE 414 engines in advance for Tejas Mk1a, and Mk2 Also Per unit cost of F35 seems lesser than this deal. That's why it's just so unreasonable. A 4th gen Rafale at this price and at barely 25-30% IC with no scope of ToT whatsoever is a bad deal. They will start arriving post 2030 as well when world would be exclusively looking for only 5th gen fighters and 6th gen fighters would be close to reality in that time. F35 doesnt come in silos. Its avionics is pretty much in control by US....and there are heavy concerns that US may block the access to the data flow whenever they want. Plus, its maintenance is extremely costly, its like buying a car on great ex showroom price but it's servicing has astronomical high values. Rafales, well I am not a fan of them and was more inclined to Su57, but it seems IAF likes it....hence even after so much lucrative offers from Russia..they didnt go ahead.
Lone Wolf Posted January 13 Posted January 13 2 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: F35 doesnt come in silos. Its avionics is pretty much in control by US....and there are heavy concerns that US may block the access to the data flow whenever they want. Plus, its maintenance is extremely costly, its like buying a car on great ex showroom price but it's servicing has astronomical high values. Rafales, well I am not a fan of them and was more inclined to Su57, but it seems IAF likes it....hence even after so much lucrative offers from Russia..they didnt go ahead. Even I was in favour of Rafale but can't find a reason with this deal.. this is just import Bahadurs getting kickbags from Dassault and French.. Negotiation ke naam pe cut commission hi maar liya apna. Su57 would have been so much better at nearly half the price.. with almost full ToT. But if you don't want to poke American bear and are so afraid, make a deal with him and in return get favourable trade deal along the way. Engine toh woh aise dene nahi wala for Mk1a and Mk2 and you won't be able to field numbers in next decade without US help. My sixth sense says ground is being prepared for F35. MoD surely can't be this daft to go ahead with this suicidal deal otherwise singhvivek141 1
IndianRenegade Posted January 13 Posted January 13 (edited) The deal is dumb at that cost & indigenous content for a 4.5 gen fighter. At least if it was f35 one could understand… but f35 is a golden handcuff that US will use to dictate the use of our force. Edited January 13 by IndianRenegade
singhvivek141 Posted January 13 Posted January 13 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: Even I was in favour of Rafale but can't find a reason with this deal.. this is just import Bahadurs getting kickbags from Dassault and French.. Negotiation ke naam pe cut commission hi maar liya apna. Su57 would have been so much better at nearly half the price.. with almost full ToT. But if you don't want to poke American bear and are so afraid, make a deal with him and in return get favourable trade deal along the way. Engine toh woh aise dene nahi wala for Mk1a and Mk2 and you won't be able to field numbers in next decade without US help. My sixth sense says ground is being prepared for F35. MoD surely can't be this daft to go ahead with this suicidal deal otherwise What surprises me is that in 1997-98, when Su30 and F16 were considered as the next gen fighters, we were braev enough to choose Su30 over F16... Then when US was a beast and Russia post the Soviet Union disintegration was a society which was struggling to even get bread for their people. China was a complete lapdog of US then and 100% against us. I wonder whats stopping the govt now, when we are in a much much better position. Even Russia has gotten that confidence back which was shredded to pieces.
G_B_ Posted January 13 Posted January 13 I think its ok really. Never was fan of rafale but iaf need jets quickly. 114 is not a huge number. So we have 150 rafale. Astra can be integrated on rafale btw. Astra mk3 is the need of ths hour. https://theprint.in/defence/why-homegrown-astra-set-to-be-integrated-with-rafale-marine-is-no-ordinary-missile/2609584/
G_B_ Posted January 13 Posted January 13 I think the key for me is the data link. With russian desi and french tech, all need to be seamless.
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