Lone Wolf Posted April 17 Posted April 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, bsriharsha said: The point is that Pakistan has only a fixed storage line for those ships. We know where to hit them next. Cripple their navy and they are sitting ducks even if they have their Chinese maal aircraft. That would have been the next logical step. Blow up Karachi port and Pakistan is a dead duck Once they are underwater it's not that easy to detect and locate an AIP sub.. and we are all hoping the upcoming Hangor Class Subs aren't as stealthy and if they are then PN will be a Green water Navy for its shorter coastline with a Naval blockade increasingly difficult unlike today and A2/AD denial a real possibility. In Op Sindoor we had them on the mat and at our mercy especially on the Naval front. That's why people were legit pissed at not getting Navy involved. Edited April 17 by Lone Wolf bsriharsha 1
singhvivek141 Posted April 18 Posted April 18 As I have been saying, the 24 numbers of conventional submarines is as outdated as 42 squadrons of fighter jets. Actual number has to be between 33-36, not less than that, and that must not include SSBNs. If I as a common citizen can see that, not sure why its taking 30 years for Navy to realize it. 6 Kalvari class submarines are competent and with AIP they will be even more lethal against Pakistan Navy, but numbers need to rise for PLAN. Sindhughosh & Shishumar class, they are like Jaguars of IAF, can only be used in limited coastal space as the hull is getting older. Not sure if they can dive much deep into the water. Maybe by 2035-2036 they will retire Adding 3 more scorpenes, 6 P75I, 12 ships under P76 is the right way to move. Even P77 should see the increase to 9/12 submarines. But I think it will happen eventually. 9 Kalvari Class 6 Type 214 12 P76 9 P77 Its crucial for us to keep conventional submarine fleet at 36. P77 will anyway be a force multiplier and will boost the lethality multi folds. G_B_ 1
bsriharsha Posted April 18 Posted April 18 (edited) There is nothing the Pakistanis can do on the naval front if we bomb their main port back to stone age. Their navy will be crippled. I do agree that we should have done that in operation sindoor. Their entire economy dies if Karachi and gwadar are bombed. No oil , complete blockade. Only thing they'll have is the nuke **** Edited April 18 by bsriharsha singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted April 18 Posted April 18 Astra mk2 is knocking the doors. https://defence.in/threads/drdo-validates-longer-ranged-astra-mk2-as-su-30mki-fighter-integration-approaches-final-completion-stages.17504/ G_B_ 1
singhvivek141 Posted April 18 Posted April 18 (edited) 6 hours ago, bsriharsha said: There is nothing the Pakistanis can do on the naval front if we bomb their main port back to stone age. Their navy will be crippled. I do agree that we should have done that in operation sindoor. Their entire economy dies if Karachi and gwadar are bombed. No oil , complete blockade. Only thing they'll have is the nuke **** Karachi, Gwadar and to some extent Pasni are the key for Pakistan. I really hope that when conflict comes in, Navy should move first and fire the barrages of Varunastra, Takshak and Brahmos on the above mentioned ports and burn it down to ashes. Once that's done, even if pak submarines escape, the cowards Pakjabis won't dare to engage. Else they will be hunted and killed by P8Is, Seaguardians, Romeo and Anjadip class of ASW's. Even the newer Corvettes and Nilgiri class frigates are also equipped with Anti Submarine warfare. Once Naval blockade is done, IAF just have to stay behind the shield of S400, Kusha and fire the long range Brahmos and Rudram missiles on the Airbases and radars just to cripple their takeoff and viewingability of Pak Airforce. We can also destroy the ML-1 railway track which transports the troop movement between Islamabad to Karachi, and if we can hit their energy grids then it will be amazing. Long Range Astra mk2 will anyway take care of the A2A combats if need arises. Navy tied down and PAF handicapped...it's a matter few days when Pak Army will bend their back, while Asim Munir will run to west along with Maryam Nawaz. N-bomb Pakistan won't use, they just use it to scare away any long term invasion. They know very well usage of N-bomb will cut all support and will give India every diplomatic liberty to turn their land into a parking lot. US and Saudi's will take those bombs with us and move it elsewhere if Pakistan behaves like a loose cannon. We just have to ensure we get additional refuellers for Aircraft to perform the sortie and Air Defence for crucial infra installation. Edited April 18 by singhvivek141
rangeelaraja Posted April 18 Author Posted April 18 (edited) 6 hours ago, bsriharsha said: There is nothing the Pakistanis can do on the naval front if we bomb their main port back to stone age. Their navy will be crippled. I do agree that we should have done that in operation sindoor. Their entire economy dies if Karachi and gwadar are bombed. No oil , complete blockade. Only thing they'll have is the nuke **** Unfortunately we talk a lot and back it up with very little action. The most recent interview of Bharat Karnad ( the most pragmatic military strategic mind in India IMO) ...he said what nobody in India has the guts to. Our military leadership at the highest level ( army/navy/airforce ) ....are a disgrace. They are the the biggest reason why India has struggled to achieve comprehensive overwhelming superiority over Pak. Even in the most recent interview of General Dwivedi he speaks NON_SENSE about not attacking Pak during time of morning Namaz. These pusillanimity and "gentlemanly " behavior is why we get shafted every single time. Did Iran a Mullah country think twice before attacking GCC countries brutally during the Ramzan month at all hours ? As Bharat Karnad said...thye assholes in the military leadership are appointed to win wars and crush the enemy...while they constantly speak the language of IFS. For fcuks sake....quit being diplomatic...where is the bloody mindedness to cause unbearable pain and induce the fear of god in Pak ?? My blood pressure rises when I see this madarchod Munir strut around like he is some conquerer...this piece of SHYTE would have been killed a long time back by Israel. Look what Israel has done to the entire leadership of Iran. We can't take out one guy ? Heck we can't even take out Dawood and Hafiz Saeed after so many years. We can only create threads like this and talk about expensive toys, while a beggar country with 1/7th of our military budget claims to have a more " technologically advanced " airforce than us. Indian military is a disgrace. I have zero hopes now. Edited April 18 by rangeelaraja singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted April 18 Posted April 18 52 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said: Unfortunately we talk a lot and back it up with very little action. The most recent interview of Bharat Karnad ( the most pragmatic military strategic mind in India IMO) ...he said what nobody in India has the guts to. Our military leadership at the highest level ( army/navy/airforce ) ....are a disgrace. They are the the biggest reason why India has struggled to achieve comprehensive overwhelming superiority over Pak. Even in the most recent interview of General Dwivedi he speaks NON_SENSE about not attacking Pak during time of morning Namaz. These pusillanimity and "gentlemanly " behavior is why we get shafted every single time. Did Iran a Mullah country think twice before attacking GCC countries brutally during the Ramzan month at all hours ? As Bharat Karnad said...thye assholes in the military leadership are appointed to win wars and crush the enemy...while they constantly speak the language of IFS. For fcuks sake....quit being diplomatic...where is the bloody mindedness to cause unbearable pain and induce the fear of god in Pak ?? My blood pressure rises when I see this madarchod Munir strut around like he is some conquerer...this piece of SHYTE would have been killed a long time back by Israel. Look what Israel has done to the entire leadership of Iran. We can't take out one guy ? Heck we can't even take out Dawood and Hafiz Saeed after so many years. We can only create threads like this and talk about expensive toys, while a beggar country with 1/7th of our military budget claims to have a more " technologically advanced " airforce than us. Indian military is a disgrace. I have zero hopes now. Brother, there are so many things going wrong in our nation 1. Pakistan...from inception is an Islamic nation, its islamic principles are forced into the head of the kids. What are we ? We are a pseudo-secular nation...while majority of this country is Dharmic, they're the least supported and entertained fraction in this country. We're taught sarv-dharm-vadapao in this country instead of openly calling out the villains and their motives (which is 99.99% of the case is religion). Unless India becomes a Hindu or Dharmic state officially, this bakwas will continue. 2. Pakistan is literally run by military, they're everywhere. In words of Shri Rahul Gandhi ji, they are in the shirts pants underwear everywhere. If they want something, no one will question them or ask them to think twice, whatsoever is the consequence. We're a civilian govt, which has so many stages and checks to "ensure" we're only buying what we need, coz we have a massive population to manage. 3. We're a shitty democracy, we have thousands of parties with their fractured policies and all they care about is taking out a piece of pie from the list of voters. Every year we have this election or that election and govt ends up spending energy, focus and money in conducting those. Add freebies to it as well. 4. We don't have civilizational aspiration. No one talks about Sanskrit revival, but are pushing for English to become global. Does China, France, Germany, Israel use English as their primary language ? Israel revived an extinct language Hebrew coz that's their civilizational language. Here people are abusing Anil Kumble and her wife on "X" for speaking in Sanskrit. 5. Lastly, we are handicapped by this burden of "reservation"....it has to be either in education or in jobs. But no, it's in education, jobs, promotion, legal ways everywhere. Even if you speak one thing against it, hundreds of "Bhim army" will stand in the court to file defamation cases against. Can anyone dare doing this in Pakistan or China or in Russia....they will be wiped out from the face of the earth. Anyway, enough rant. Hope we get something soon for our defence forces.
Lone Wolf Posted April 18 Posted April 18 52 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said: Unfortunately we talk a lot and back it up with very little action. The most recent interview of Bharat Karnad ( the most pragmatic military strategic mind in India IMO) ...he said what nobody in India has the guts to. Our military leadership at the highest level ( army/navy/airforce ) ....are a disgrace. They are the the biggest reason why India has struggled to achieve comprehensive overwhelming superiority over Pak. Even in the most recent interview of General Dwivedi he speaks NON_SENSE about not attacking Pak during time of morning Namaz. These pusillanimity and "gentlemanly " behavior is why we get shafted every single time. Did Iran a Mullah country think twice before attacking GCC countries brutally during the Ramzan month at all hours ? As Bharat Karnad said...thye assholes in the military leadership are appointed to win wars and crush the enemy...while they constantly speak the language of IFS. For fcuks sake....quit being diplomatic...where is the bloody mindedness to cause unbearable pain and induce the fear of god in Pak ?? My blood pressure rises when I see this madarchod Munir strut around like he is some conquerer...this piece of SHYTE would have been killed a long time back by Israel. Look what Israel has done to the entire leadership of Iran. We can't take out one guy ? Heck we can't even take out Dawood and Hafiz Saeed after so many years. We can only create threads like this and talk about expensive toys, while a beggar country with 1/7th of our military budget claims to have a more " technologically advanced " airforce than us. Indian military is a disgrace. I have zero hopes now. You are being way too harsh on Indian military.. at the end of the day India is still a import dependent military power for the most part. So we have our own limitations. R&D bhi zero hi hai almost in this country. And yes we pinch we below our weight that's a fair point. Comparing Pak with Iran is also not a apt comparison. For whatever reason both Pak and Indian armed forces are the successors of British Indian Army which was the most fearsome battle hardened process driven killing Machine Asia had ever witnessed and we saw that in the World Wars/Opium Wars you name it. Britain dominated the World through us. Neither PLA, Neither Iran, Turks or any West Asian Armed force has that legacy or distinction. Also accept the fact that Pookland being a client state and military for hire has a lot more allies and Friends so it's nigh on impossible to isolate them vis a vis an Iran or NoKo. Pookistan is an Western Anglo Rothschild creation and it was created for a purpose to tie us forever in South Asia. They knew India is a civilizational state so they attached a suicide bomber along with us. The Anglos are just too clever and they have rarely lost in History for a reason.
rangeelaraja Posted April 18 Author Posted April 18 24 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: You are being way too harsh on Indian military.. at the end of the day India is still a import dependent military power for the most part. So we have our own limitations. R&D bhi zero hi hai almost in this country. And yes we pinch we below our weight that's a fair point. Comparing Pak with Iran is also not a apt comparison. For whatever reason both Pak and Indian armed forces are the successors of British Indian Army which was the most fearsome battle hardened process driven killing Machine Asia had ever witnessed and we saw that in the World Wars/Opium Wars you name it. Britain dominated the World through us. Neither PLA, Neither Iran, Turks or any West Asian Armed force has that legacy or distinction. Also accept the fact that Pookland being a client state and military for hire has a lot more allies and Friends so it's nigh on impossible to isolate them vis a vis an Iran or NoKo. Pookistan is an Western Anglo Rothschild creation and it was created for a purpose to tie us forever in South Asia. They knew India is a civilizational state so they attached a suicide bomber along with us. The Anglos are just too clever and they have rarely lost in History for a reason. 26 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Brother, there are so many things going wrong in our nation 1. Pakistan...from inception is an Islamic nation, its islamic principles are forced into the head of the kids. What are we ? We are a pseudo-secular nation...while majority of this country is Dharmic, they're the least supported and entertained fraction in this country. We're taught sarv-dharm-vadapao in this country instead of openly calling out the villains and their motives (which is 99.99% of the case is religion). Unless India becomes a Hindu or Dharmic state officially, this bakwas will continue. 2. Pakistan is literally run by military, they're everywhere. In words of Shri Rahul Gandhi ji, they are in the shirts pants underwear everywhere. If they want something, no one will question them or ask them to think twice, whatsoever is the consequence. We're a civilian govt, which has so many stages and checks to "ensure" we're only buying what we need, coz we have a massive population to manage. 3. We're a shitty democracy, we have thousands of parties with their fractured policies and all they care about is taking out a piece of pie from the list of voters. Every year we have this election or that election and govt ends up spending energy, focus and money in conducting those. Add freebies to it as well. 4. We don't have civilizational aspiration. No one talks about Sanskrit revival, but are pushing for English to become global. Does China, France, Germany, Israel use English as their primary language ? Israel revived an extinct language Hebrew coz that's their civilizational language. Here people are abusing Anil Kumble and her wife on "X" for speaking in Sanskrit. 5. Lastly, we are handicapped by this burden of "reservation"....it has to be either in education or in jobs. But no, it's in education, jobs, promotion, legal ways everywhere. Even if you speak one thing against it, hundreds of "Bhim army" will stand in the court to file defamation cases against. Can anyone dare doing this in Pakistan or China or in Russia....they will be wiped out from the face of the earth. Anyway, enough rant. Hope we get something soon for our defence forces. You guys think I am being harsh ---but it is a reality that are our military leaders are a disgrace. Pak hardly fears consequences of doing T-attacks in India. They know if India retaliates, they will do a tit for tat and some third country will mediate. Our entire system including MoD is utterly rotten. But it is an abject failure of our military that we have failed to instill fear in Pak military leadership. WHY THE * CAN'T WE BE BADASS, ROGUE, track their movements and knock out their military chiefs and 3 star generals ?? Why do we always have to be a "good " enemy ? We can just tapkao-fy them and drop a press note that their were a security risk to the region, matter over. If they want to escalate then we respond with 10X force. Instead our military leadership are constantly reactive B!tches. Every single day this MOFO Munir is alive, makes my blood boil. singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted April 20 Posted April 20 If this is indeed true, the it means that the FGFA disagreements are sorted out ?
IndianRenegade Posted April 20 Posted April 20 (edited) On 4/18/2026 at 12:12 PM, rangeelaraja said: You guys think I am being harsh ---but it is a reality that are our military leaders are a disgrace. Pak hardly fears consequences of doing T-attacks in India. They know if India retaliates, they will do a tit for tat and some third country will mediate. Our entire system including MoD is utterly rotten. But it is an abject failure of our military that we have failed to instill fear in Pak military leadership. WHY THE * CAN'T WE BE BADASS, ROGUE, track their movements and knock out their military chiefs and 3 star generals ?? Why do we always have to be a "good " enemy ? We can just tapkao-fy them and drop a press note that their were a security risk to the region, matter over. If they want to escalate then we respond with 10X force. Instead our military leadership are constantly reactive B!tches. Every single day this MOFO Munir is alive, makes my blood boil. Lol.. our army Chief says we we waited for terrorists to finish namaz so we can attack, you are expecting them to do decapitation strikes? even if the political leadership gives a go ahead these good boy general will personally call Asim Munir & tell him, so he can escape. Then he will lecture the country about some military ethos that exists even between enemies. Edited April 20 by IndianRenegade
G_B_ Posted April 20 Posted April 20 On 4/17/2026 at 3:47 PM, Lone Wolf said: Once they are underwater it's not that easy to detect and locate an AIP sub.. and we are all hoping the upcoming Hangor Class Subs aren't as stealthy and if they are then PN will be a Green water Navy for its shorter coastline with a Naval blockade increasingly difficult unlike today and A2/AD denial a real possibility. In Op Sindoor we had them on the mat and at our mercy especially on the Naval front. That's why people were legit pissed at not getting Navy involved. I thought the P8 are excellent at AIP detection.
bsriharsha Posted April 20 Posted April 20 Manufacture and improve brahmos on war footings across all variants That missile can't be defended against by Pakistan. Use those liberally whenever Pakistan starts its idiocy again. Even the bunker buster variant. We have a superior missile system. Take out Pakistan's awacs , port facilities , air bases and all that chutya desh will do is talk about bamb bamb bamb.
rangeelaraja Posted April 20 Author Posted April 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, IndianRenegade said: Lol.. our army Chief says we we waited for terrorists to finish namaz so we can attack, you are expecting them to do decapitation strikes? even if the political leadership gives a go ahead these good boy general will personally call Asim Munir & tell him, so he can escape. Then he will lecture the country about some military ethos that exists even between enemies. Bro, you have touched my raw nerve. I have zero doubt that are young officers and jawans are the bravest of the brave - anywhere in the world. My anger is only against the hijda leaders - from all the 3 services. Even after so many years these brainless morons target the atankwadis, and don’t directly attack Pak military. Even a common man knows the head of the snake is the Pak army. Yet these Hijdas show bahaduri only against the atankwadis. Decapitate the effing head of the snake - for a country of our size and strength- we do our selves a great deal of disservice due to the cowardly “ good boy “ service chiefs we have have. Dont our Hijda generals have any shame that much smaller force from a bankrupt beggar third rate country does not think twice before attacking us hardly fearing the consequences - while our first attack target after every t attack is camps and hideouts of cockroaches and not GHQ Rawalpindi. How very shameful is it that every time Pak has internal chaos - they can poke us for fun and orchestrate something in India knowing our response will be feeble and not against them directly. Is it being harsh when calling shameless Hijdas for what they are ? Everytime we attack Camps of LeT and JeM - within a matter of 24 hours Pak attacks our military installations directly - it happened in 2019 and again during Op Sindoor. It shows they know we will not react with full force and be highly reluctant in our response. Edited April 20 by rangeelaraja singhvivek141 1
Lone Wolf Posted April 20 Posted April 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, G_B_ said: Plus aren't the Hangor class subs simply kilo classs+ AIP? Hangor class use Striling AIP tech though weapon's package given to PN isn't known yet. Few years ago a gotland class sub featuring Striling AIP tech surfaced in the middle of a US carrier group in some exercises causing US to rent/lease some Gotland class sub to evaluate and try ASW against Indian Navy has invested heavily in its own ASW capability. P8I, MH 60 and MQ9 are best in class when it comes to ASW. That's why those Agosta class were docked in Karachi harbour during Sindoor For what it's worth Pookistan Navy lacks substantial ASW capability itself. Edited April 20 by Lone Wolf
Lone Wolf Posted April 20 Posted April 20 (edited) 13 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said: Everytime we attack Camps of LeT and JeM - within a matter of 24 hours Pak attacks our military installations directly - it happened in 2019 and again during Op Sindoor. It shows they know we will not react with full force and be highly reluctant in our response. Calling Jernails names is easy but it was top leadership call to attack those camps and Terror outposts... They were specifically asked to not engage with military installations. I have never understood this reason myself. Pooks always throw caution to the wind and go with the flow as you said in 2019 they actually tried to attack Military installations in Rajouri Poonch belt. Problem is not with Armed forces but with the leadership and Indian people who don't have appetite to see losess and leadership fears this point. Abhinandan fiasco was an example. India of 60's and 70's wouldn't want him back but instead would ask the leadership to bomb Lahore and rain hell on Karachi. Funnily that is an economically weaker India we are taking about. Edited April 20 by Lone Wolf singhvivek141 1
rangeelaraja Posted April 20 Author Posted April 20 11 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: Calling Jernails names is easy but it was top leadership call to attack those camps and Terror outposts... They were specifically asked to not engage with military installations. I have never understood this reason myself. Pooks always throw caution to the wind and go with the flow as you said in 2019 they actually tried to attack Military installations in Rajouri Poonch belt. Problem is not with Armed forces but with the leadership and Indian people who don't have appetite to see losess and leadership fears this point. Abhinandan fiasco was an example. India of 60's and 70's wouldn't want him back but instead would ask the leadership to bomb Lahore and rain hell on Karachi. Funnily that is an economically weaker India we are taking about. I don't buy that theory quite frankly. You think the political leadership understands the dynamics of aerial warfare ? Is it so hard to tell the political leadership that Pak army needs to be attacked head on to prevent counterattacks and losses on our side ? Our service chiefs are to be blamed to a large extent as well. Who the hell told Dwivedi to talk non sense about not attacking during morning n@m@z time ?? These Pak madarchods meant to attack Vaishnodevi and several worship sites in India - luckily all were repelled. For fcuk sakes, these assholes should develop some balls and make a Gaza out of GHQ Pindi. Pak throws everything it has at us always. Pak is finished once Karachi is blockaded. They cannot get fuel to sustain war. Its game over. And if we destroy 7-8 key runaways even their Chinese fathers won't be able to land cargo planes with ammo. ravishingravi and bsriharsha 1 1
bsriharsha Posted April 20 Posted April 20 22 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said: I don't buy that theory quite frankly. You think the political leadership understands the dynamics of aerial warfare ? Is it so hard to tell the political leadership that Pak army needs to be attacked head on to prevent counterattacks and losses on our side ? Our service chiefs are to be blamed to a large extent as well. Who the hell told Dwivedi to talk non sense about not attacking during morning n@m@z time ?? These Pak madarchods meant to attack Vaishnodevi and several worship sites in India - luckily all were repelled. For fcuk sakes, these assholes should develop some balls and make a Gaza out of GHQ Pindi. Pak throws everything it has at us always. Pak is finished once Karachi is blockaded. They cannot get fuel to sustain war. Its game over. And if we destroy 7-8 key runaways even their Chinese fathers won't be able to land cargo planes with ammo. * that , those madarchods wanted to attack civillian cities. Now india has the decency to not respond. And they've already called their bluff. None of their original attacks landed anywhere close to an Indian city. It means that their missiles are trackable and actionable. Our missiles. They are still butt hurt about it even now. Next attempts , just send the brahmos over. Those beggars will grovel. singhvivek141 and rangeelaraja 1 1
bsriharsha Posted April 20 Posted April 20 And I do agree , bomb the * out of Karachi port and those guys are literally *ed. Something that should have been done before the ceasefire rangeelaraja 1
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