Ashok Sharma and Karthik Tyagi

[Ultimate_Game]

8 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Tyagi has to prove his fitness in FC, that will help him build his muscle memory.

 

For Tests...Gurnoor, Eden Apple Tom, Prasidh, Akashdeep, Siraj, Bumrah, Harshit are there. We can hopefully pull in Ashok as well and he can bowl lot of overs without breaking down, and is a good fielder and no mug with the bat. 

 

At the moment, only Akashdeep & Ashok are the ones who can not only contribute with bat & ball but also field well. Harshit too is there but his fitness can be a ? mark.

 

Heard good things about Eden Apple Tom's batting/tonking ability as well...hope he is a good fielder. We need such guys.

 

Tyagi needs a lot of practice for sure as he doesn't have control over his line & length. Am excited about the prospects and players coming through and hope they continue pushing the bar higher.

[Need4Speed]

2 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

They've to prove they belong. Mayank hasn't replicated his pace and form from 2-3 seasons ago. And Kartik is mentally fragile. In fact I would prefer Tyagi in the longer formats where pressure would be less on him and nobody will go after him. Him and Siraj are better Test bowlers than shorter format ones.

They definitely hv to prove.however..they came back frombinjuroes/rehabs..long gaps and remodelled action/runups..so we need to give them game time and confidence

[express bowling]

14 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

We are more than patient. But performances trump everything else. Go and learn in domestics coz if another player is outperforming you in domestics, how can you be a better pick in intls? Pick him in intls but based on what?

 

 

Don't think anyone is asking for Tyagi to be picked for Team India now.

 

And I want Tyagi and every other young Indian quick to play quite a few FC snd List A matches before India debut. This will prepare their bodies for the rigours of fast bowling and hone their skills.

 

BUT 

 

Others outperforming you in domestic cricket can't be a constraint to selection. There were many better domestic performers than Bumrah, Shami, Kohli.

 

And this happens because Ranji Trophy structure and pitches ususlly reward lower intensity, lower effort participation as opposed to high intensity, high effort tussles needed in big test series and big ICC tournaments.

 

A military medium pacer, bowling well within himself, not putting in the effort to extract life out of pitches, and hence staying fit and playing all the matches ... pick loads of wickets by gently putting the ball in good areas. But this approach does not work in international cricket. The same " good area " gentle deliveries will get smashed mercilessly. 

Edited June 17 by express bowling

[Ultimate_Game]

3 hours ago, Need4Speed said:

They definitely hv to prove.however..they came back frombinjuroes/rehabs..long gaps and remodelled action/runups..so we need to give them game time and confidence

 

And when they do that and perform they'll get into the list. At the moment they aren't good enough.

[Ultimate_Game]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Don't think anyone is asking for Tyagi to be picked for Team India now.

 

And I want Tyagi and every other young Indian quick to play quite a few FC snd List A matches before India debut. This will prepare their bodies for the rigours of fast bowling and hone their skills.

 

BUT 

 

Others outperforming you in domestic can't be a constraint to selection. There were many better domestic performers than Bumrah, Shami, Kohli.

 

And this happens because Ranji Trophy structure and pitches ususlly rewards lower intensity, lower effort participation as opposed to high intensity, high effort engagements needed in big test series and big ICC tournaments.

 

A military medium pacer, bowling well within himself, not putting in the effort to extract life out of pitches, and hence staying fit and playing all the matches ... pick loads of wickets by gently putting the ball in good areas. But this approach does not work in international cricket. The same " good area " gentle deliveries will get smashed mercilessly. 

 

Others outbowling you can't be a constraint but mental toughness has to be a non-negotiable. I would pick Axar over likes of Chahal or Kuldeep any day and same way Rasikh over Tyagi. I haven't seen Raiskh lose the plot the way Tyagi does when attacked. He let a 38 year old Shami win the match when he was defending 18 or so in the last over. I shudder to think what other intl batters will do against him. Tyagi isn't ready mentally and doesn't have the control necessary for intls. Rasikh is far ahead on both counts.

 

Rasikh may or may not get smashed but when Shami is hammering you and successfully chasing 18 in the last over you definitely don't belong.

[express bowling]

20 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Others outbowling you can't be a constraint but mental toughness has to be a non-negotiable. I would pick Axar over likes of Chahal or Kuldeep any day and same way Rasikh over Tyagi. I haven't seen Raiskh lose the plot the way Tyagi does when attacked. He let a 38 year old Shami win the match when he was defending 18 or so in the last over. I shudder to think what other intl batters will do against him. Tyagi isn't ready mentally and doesn't have the control necessary for intls. Rasikh is far ahead on both counts.

 

Rasikh may or may not get smashed but when Shami is hammering you and successfully chasing 18 in the last over you definitely don't belong.

 

Our superset is not limited to Rasikh and Tyagi.   : )

 

And Tyagi has shown a lot of mental toughness in earlier years. Currently he is getting used to a new action, remodeled to reduce chance of recurring shin injury.  Hence he is sometimes losing control.

 

Even when no pressure, he is bowling a lot of loose balls and nothing balls. There are issues with his ball release. 

 

Needs to play some FC snd List A matches to rectify this.

 

Rasikh is military medium. Atleast Arshdeep type speed is needed in international cricket. 

[Suhaan]

5 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Tyagi needs a lot of practice for sure as he doesn't have control over his line & length. Am excited about the prospects and players coming through and hope they continue pushing the bar higher.

Rasikh??

He doesn't belong in any form of international cricket

[Ultimate_Game]

23 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Rasikh??

He doesn't belong in any form of international cricket

 

In a pool for T20 bowlers. No point in playing Bumrah in bilaterals.

[Ultimate_Game]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Our superset is not limited to Rasikh and Tyagi.   : )

 

And Tyagi has shown a lot of mental toughness in earlier years. Currently he is getting used to a new action, remodeled to reduce chance of recurring shin injury.  Hence he is sometimes losing control.

 

Even when no pressure, he is bowling a lot of loose balls and nothing balls. There are issues with his ball release. 

 

Needs to play some FC snd List A matches to rectify this.

 

Rasikh is military medium. Atleast Arshdeep type speed is needed in international cricket. 

 

And when he plays and gets better he'll get there. The list is simply who's in contention now. Tyagi is a project and not ready. Others are ahead and in a better position to get in the team now.

[Need4Speed]

10 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

And when they do that and perform they'll get into the list. At the moment they aren't good enough.

I will still prefer them in A tours or emerging cups etc rather than Kamboj…Gurjapneet..as even though latters hv good domestic performance..but not as talented..their best is average performance in world class  level..

whereas Kartik and Mayank has more to offer..I would rather give them more game time and groom them..

 

for me the question is am I going to build a dangerous icc tournament winning capable pace attack options or good enough to just be a step for SENA countries to reach the top positions

Edited June 17 by Need4Speed

[express bowling]

8 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

And when he plays and gets better he'll get there. The list is simply who's in contention now. Tyagi is a project and not ready. Others are ahead and in a better position to get in the team now.

 

Who is disputing that ?

 

But calling him mentally weak is not a correct assessment.

 

And no Tyagi yet does not mean military medium pacers should get in. 

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

I will still prefer them in A tours or emerging cups etc rather than Kamboj…Gurjapneet..as even though latters hv good domestic performance..but not as talented..their best is average performance in world class  level..

whereas Kartik and Mayank has more to offer..I would rather give them more game time and groom them..

 

 

Exactly !

 

4 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

for me the question is am I going to build a dangerous icc tournament winning capable pace attack options or good enough to just be a step for SENA countries to reach the top positions

 

Well put.

 

India has generally tried to produce " safe " pace attacks as opposed to dangerous pace attacks. Only exception being the 2016 to 2023 period .... and we saw the results then.

[Suhaan]

9 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

In a pool for T20 bowlers. No point in playing Bumrah in bilaterals.

Rasikh is not your answer

Bumrah should not be played which is why we need bowlers like Sakib/Prince for t20s

High potential pacers should be always played odis and tests and Rasikh should be kept limited to IPL only

Edited June 17 by Suhaan

[Suhaan]

9 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

And when he plays and gets better he'll get there. The list is simply who's in contention now. Tyagi is a project and not ready. Others are ahead and in a better position to get in the team now.

And who says Rasikh is ready?

[Ultimate_Game]

2 hours ago, Suhaan said:

And who says Rasikh is ready?

 

Based on his performances in IPL he's far ahead of Tyagi. Played in an A series or Rising Stars tourney as well and performed decently.

[Ultimate_Game]

2 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Rasikh is not your answer

Bumrah should not be played which is why we need bowlers like Sakib/Prince for t20s

High potential pacers should be always played odis and tests and Rasikh should be kept limited to IPL only

 

He should be in the pool and whoever out of the pool - Prince, Sakib, Mohsin, Gurnoor, Ashok, Harshit, Rasikh - performs better gets ahead in the pecking order. But Tyagi doesn't make the list.

[Ultimate_Game]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Who is disputing that ?

 

But calling him mentally weak is not a correct assessment.

 

And no Tyagi yet does not mean military medium pacers should get in. 

 

It's based on what we saw in IPL. Nearly every time he was put under pressure he bowled no-balls and high full-tosses. He crumbled when he was attacked. Even someone like Shami was able to chase 18 off his last over. I can understand someone like Tim David or Ashutosh or any other hitter hitting him but when Shami takes you apart to win the match, there's a problem.

[Ultimate_Game]

3 hours ago, Need4Speed said:

I will still prefer them in A tours or emerging cups etc rather than Kamboj…Gurjapneet..as even though latters hv good domestic performance..but not as talented..their best is average performance in world class  level..

whereas Kartik and Mayank has more to offer..I would rather give them more game time and groom them..

 

for me the question is am I going to build a dangerous icc tournament winning capable pace attack options or good enough to just be a step for SENA countries to reach the top positions

 

Send him on as many A tours and preferably to play Tests but he isn't there yet for the highest level. If a spot or two opens up he shouldn't be in consideration.

[Need4Speed]

1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

He should be in the pool and whoever out of the pool - Prince, Sakib, Mohsin, Gurnoor, Ashok, Harshit, Rasikh - performs better gets ahead in the pecking order. But Tyagi doesn't make the list.

Tyagi’s role was as a strike bowler in KKR eclipsing Vaibhav Arora..whereas Rasikh Salam was just a 3rd/4th or even 5th fiddle after Bhuvi/Josh/Duffy and Krunal..in RCB..now imagine if he wud be able to handle first or 2nd seamer role for India..

 

[Need4Speed]

1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Send him on as many A tours and preferably to play Tests but he isn't there yet for the highest level. If a spot or two opens up he shouldn't be in consideration.

To be fair..apart from Boom and good form Arsh..no one is at highest level for me in T20s..even Harshit needs to tighten up his game..