Venkatesh Prasad and swing - how much do you think his influence has been

[The Outsider]

Just got off the phone with Salil, and naturally we had a long discussion on the Perth test which made me get back to our match at Perth when the pitch was decidedly quicker than the one dished out for the Australia-South Africa match and the discussion went on to how well RP Singh and Pathan exploited the Freemantle Doctor at Perth. Perth and bowling conjure up memories of the spell from Ishant to Ponting and even the beauty Sehwag bowled on the fourth afternoon, but rarely has there been any discussion on how well we used the Perth afternoon breeze, which according to Ian Chappell is as important to win a test at Perth than exploiting the bounce. Couple that performance with the superb reverse swing spells that Ishant and Zaheer have been putting up on pitches which have little to offer for fast bowlers and you just have to wonder whether Prasad has played a key role in all this. Reverse swing is something which a few bowlers have mastered over time, but the perfect exploitation of swing at Nottingham and Perth even by bowlers who are not a permanent part of the XI, surely must have something to do with Prasad in the dressing room. How much a role do you think he has played and given the flop of Cooley's stooges in India after his success with England, can he be considered the best bowling coach in the world?

[flamy]

There definitely has been a marked improvement in our bowlers since he took over. I'll call him the best bowling coach if he can fix Pathan for me :yay:

[Ram]

Definitely he has played a significant role. Its not without reason that his tenure has coincided with the a resurgence of Indian fast bowling. Strangely, none of our players, esp. the quicks, ever seem to mention his name in the papers/press conferences.

[flamy]

Definitely he has played a significant role. Its not without reason that his tenure has coincided with the a resurgence of Indian fast bowler. Strangely, none of our players, esp. the quicks, ever seem to mention his name in the papers/press conferences.

It's all part of the plan. :musicman:

[Lord]

kirsten-prasad-robin team is a rocking one.they do the job behind the doors n never gloat about themselves

[Dhondy]

Do you accept that you suddenly don't become a bad coach from a good one? Then you must accept that coaching is overrated and results have all to do with personnel. Cooley was fortunate to have three English bowlers right at the peak of their form and fully fit- Flintoff, Harmison and Jones. That kind of convergence occurs less often than sightings of Hailey's comet, and sure enough, Jones hasn't played a Test since. Australia clearly lack the fast men to make it count and all of Cooley's much vaunted coaching skills have gone flat. If you give credit to Prasad for Z&I, ask yourself, how did RP Singh make the transition from the most promising fast bowler in the world to an also-ran despite escaping injuries, why has Pathan become virtually unselectable in Tests and ODIs, and why did Sreesanth and RP bowl like complete morons in the first two Tests against SA at home, including a very helpful surface at Ahmedabad, a deficiency that was glaringly highlighted by Ishant on a spin friendly pitch at Kanpur where he took five for next to nothing. Why, even here, it took Prasad three innings to figure out that the way to bowl to Strauss is full and straight, something the Aussies have known for a long time. As I said, coaching is overrated.

[Lord]

^it is certainly the players that matter,but the coaches can tell how to reverse swing the ball.how to bowl the slower one,yorker etc.good wards learn quickly,others dont

[The Outsider]

Dhondy, no doubt coaching is overrated, but how do you explain rookies exploiting Nottingham and Perth without coaching, specially Perth where experienced bowlers have got carried away with the bounce at times? I am not saying for sure that Prasad was behind it, it could have been Tendulkar or Kumble as well given their vast experience, but surely fast swing bowling as we saw at Nottingham and Perth in alien conditions by blokes unsure of their position in the playing XI has got something to do with the coach?

[msb1991]

There definitely has been a marked improvement in our bowlers since he took over. I'll call him the best bowling coach if he can fix Pathan for me :yay:

It must be asked whether Pathan requires fixing anymore, he has done extremely well this domestic season, taking 7/35 off 10 in his last match, against Andhra. He is on his way to his most successful domestic season ever.

[Dhondy]

Dhondy' date=' no doubt coaching is overrated, but how do you explain rookies exploiting Nottingham and Perth without coaching, specially Perth where experienced bowlers have got carried away with the bounce at times? I am not saying for sure that Prasad was behind it, it could have been Tendulkar or Kumble as well given their vast experience, but surely fast swing bowling as we saw at Nottingham and Perth in alien conditions by blokes unsure of their position in the playing XI has got something to do with the coach?[/quote'] You are looking at Nottingham & Perth and saying that India did well because the bowlers swung the ball. What actually happened was that they swung the ball because it was Nottingham & Perth. Trent Bridge has large built up areas around the ground and the ball always swings there. You have already referred to the Freemantle doctor at Perth. India's natural strength is swing because the bowlers are generally not massively built. They'll generally do well when the ball moves in the air, less so when there is bounce or lateral movement. Ishant might change that though.

[Lord]

You are looking at Nottingham & Perth and saying that India did well because the bowlers swung the ball. What actually happened was that they swung the ball because it was Nottingham & Perth. Trent Bridge has large built up areas around the ground and the ball always swings there. You have already referred to the Freemantle doctor at Perth. India's natural strength is swing because the bowlers are generally not massively built. They'll generally do well when the ball moves in the air, less so when there is bounce or lateral movement. Ishant might change that though.

u mean any X,Yor z can do well at nottingam or perth.what explains anderson,sidebottom and tremlett's failure on same trent brige pitch or johnson,tait at perth.u certainly need some skill n training to do well irrespective of the conditions,dude.

[Dhondy]

Just pick out some consecutive Test matches at Nottingham and see the break down of wickets, SR, and you'll see what I mean.

[Bumper]

I wouldnt credit Prasad much for our recent bowling efforts. The rise of Zaheer & Ishant has more to do with our fortunes. Given the plethora of coaches --head coach, bowling coach, batting coach, fielding coach, spin coach, breakfast coach, lunch coach, the role of each coach gets more & more murkier. If any of the management personnel deserve credit, that would be Dhoni. His tactics have been superb and he has also fueled an attitude change in this team, in testing moments.

[The Outsider]

You are looking at Nottingham & Perth and saying that India did well because the bowlers swung the ball. What actually happened was that they swung the ball because it was Nottingham & Perth. Trent Bridge has large built up areas around the ground and the ball always swings there. You have already referred to the Freemantle doctor at Perth. India's natural strength is swing because the bowlers are generally not massively built. They'll generally do well when the ball moves in the air, less so when there is bounce or lateral movement. Ishant might change that though.

But we've played at Nottingham and Perth with equally competent if not more bowlers before and produced sub par performances. I present exhibit A : http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/63567.html Playing with Kapil, Prabhakar, and Srinath....two of whom will probably make an all time India XI we bottled up in the second innings. I watched that match and none looked remotely threatening once the juice out of the pitch was gone. I also present exhibit B for Nottingham : http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/63998.html None of our bowlers looked like taking a wicket in this match and we were saved by our chokers here. There is also exhibit C for Nottingham : http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/63998.html We had Srinath and Prasad in red hot form going into this series, but again were completely toothless. These are 3 previous matches which I have watched and we made a hash of good bowling conditions by not bowling the right length or having the wrong bowlers at wrong ends.

[Dhondy]

Shwetabh, I should have told you,Trent Bridge has changed beyond recognition since 1996. Development work, new wings, new building work in '98, 2002 and 2007. It was a batsman's paradise back in '96. Remember how well Srinath and Prasad bowled at the other venues?

[Fontaine]

Well there's no doubt that India are going through a fast bowling renaissance with the amount of young talent like Pathan, Patel, RP, Ishant, PK, etc coming through. They have done extremely well in such a short time. But there ARE signs that India are bowling intelligently. You see things like Zaheer hiding the ball, using the same finger and wrist position to swing the ball both ways in England, Ishant developing a useful slower ball, bowlers like RP, Zaheer and Ishant bowling to a specific plan in terms of attacking Ponting/Hayden etc when they are just in with specific deliveries forcing them to play on the front foot etc. All of that requires planning, a LOT of hours of film study and breakdown of tendencies etc. That's not something INDIVIDUAL bowlers do but something guys like Kirsten/Prasad are payed for. For example in Mohali, bowling the new ball specifically to roughen it up on the hard pitch to get reverse swing after the first 15 overs. That's not something that your bowlers just do at the drop of a hat. It takes planning, preparation and a lot of study to get it done and it's those areas where Prasad is coming good. Still, it's up to the bowlers to show up and play well on the day but I believe our bowlers are very well prepared ahead of time because of Prasad.

[Fontaine]

It must be asked whether Pathan requires fixing anymore' date=' he has done extremely well this domestic season, taking 7/35 off 10 in his last match, against Andhra. He is on his way to his most successful domestic season ever.[/quote'] The best thing for him was to go back to domestic cricket to get a lot of overs with his new bowling action. I'm glad he's been given time off to do that because it was only a matter of time before he got fully comfortable with his new bowling action to come good. I just hope he isn't picked next for India in completely flat conditions like the sub continent. He's a swing bowler and needs to go on a tour where he can get some confidence and really use the conditions. Ideally I'd love him to spend another season say in England where he can get more overs in different conditions.

[Show_stopper]

kirsten-prasad-robin team is a rocking one.they do the job behind the doors n never gloat about themselves

I'm not convinced about Robin myself.