Gambit Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 The fantastical idea that a stable Pakistan is good for India reeks of naivete. Up until the late 1980s, the Pakistani economy was in much better shape that India's. It is well documented that Pakistan's economic growth rate was higher than India's until we liberalised. They enjoyed a higher standard of living and had a higher per capita income along with lower poverty levels. However, instead of consolidating on this platform and surging ahead, they continued to be more preoccupied with destroying India and making us regress than progress themselves. Sure, in the short term, they managed to achieve both economic growth and 'thousand bleeding cuts', however given their shaky political framework and their army's tendency to launch a coup whenever they desired meant that they could never sustain progress on both fronts. Despite their economic and relative political stability, they never wished for peaceful relations and always had this G main keeda to annihilate us. Instead of focussing on solidifying their internal framework and furthering their economy, they continued to remain steadfast on their primary objective i.e. destruction of India. This very blinkered approach has brought them to where they are today. And yes, their 'freedom fighters' have home to roost. Ab aish karo haraam khoron.
beetle Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 Day after, Pak in mourning The giant scoreboard is blank. The groundsmen are sitting idle. Barring the solitary television camera and a few stragglers, the Gaddafi stadium is quiet. What should have been the fourth day of the second cricket Test between Sri Lanka and Pakistan is now a day of mourning. As the Punjab police made little headway in tracking down the 12 gunmen who made the Sri Lankan cricketers flee Pakistan, there is outrage and anger at the failure of the state to protect these sporting guests. Tens of suspects have been detained, but no arrests announced so far. The “foreign hand” is very much being blamed — but that could stretch from Al Qaeda, India or even the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE). “We also have some important leads that would eventually unearth people responsible for this terrible act,” Pakistan foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi said at a news conference with his Sri Lankan counterpart in Islamabad. Rohitha Bogollagama, the Sri Lankan foreign minister, on his part, did not rule out possibility that the LTTE could be behind the Lahore attack. Standing at the Liberty Market roundabout, the launch pad used by the gunmen to attack the Lankan bus, Akmal Hussain told Hindustan Times: “This is an abject security failure. Somebody ought to be brought to book for this.” Trampled flower beds are evidence of where the attackers stood in ambush on the roundabout; waiting for the Sri Lankans. Another bystander, who did not give his name, said: “The Gulberg police station is just there. How come no cops gave chase to the gunmen?” At Liberty Market locals have put up a small memorial, which was filmed by multiple TV channels. Not a single policeman was deployed along the route, making it easy for the gunmen to junk their weapons and disappear. Writing in the Daily Times, analyst Ejaz Haider argued that proper security measures would have helped saved not just lives, but Pakistan’s battered image. A debate also raged whether the intention of the gunmen was to kidnap the cricketers and turn them into hostages. But then why fire an RPG round at the bus, which missed, hit a Liberty shop, but failed to explode? The News front-paged a report that a February 22 intelligence report had warned that India’s intelligence agency, R&AW, would target (incredible as it may sound) Lankan cricketers. Some bystanders at Liberty roundabout blamed India for the strikes, but when asked on what basis they were making the claim, replied, “Muslims cannot do such things.” Given that central rule was imposed last Wednesday in Punjab and top cops were shifted by governor Salman Taseer, the attack has become political football in the politics between Pakistan Peoples Party and Pakistan Muslim League (N). http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=448208eb-8267-47b3-8522-5c4e162ac122&ParentID=0746f0f0-706f-44b3-9592-146571a3ba7e&Headline=Day+after%2c+Pak+in+mourning -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- effing idiots! I have no sympathy for any one there.They all deserve every bit of what they are getting.
theguyinallblue Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 i hope Taliban gets the nukes in pakistan... they will surely use them first in afganistan.. and before they could push the button.. they will be inahilated to dust by striked by USA, NATO and israel.. with that ..there will be peace around the world for long... for the world peace...we will have to see another Nuclear bomb detonation over pakistani sky in coming months or years.. we as indians might have to pay a price of being their neighbour..as our air will also get polluted... but its a small price that we will have to pay for the larger interest of our country..
beetle Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 Aur hum to pakistan se bahut duur hai ne sandeep. Humare aas paas to suraksha kawach hai na......
theguyinallblue Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 i think tactical nukes are the answers..:--D
riya Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- have no sympathy for any oeffing idiots! hey all deserve every bit of what they are getting.
vroomfondel Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 Lurker' date=' I feel that you and Vroom have been intellectually dishonest on this issue. I simply don't feel like debating you.[/quote'] like i said, after mumbai I couldn't give a damn about the humanity of a paki but i didn't like where that thought process led. hence the change in thinking. sorry if you feel i'm being disingenuous, i guess.
hassan_113 Posted March 6, 2009 Posted March 6, 2009 As I wrote in another thread their leadership is striking deals with the Taliban - ok that's failed leadership for you' date=' but what about the citizens. There have hardly been any protests against a decision of this magnitude. The problem is that for last 20 years they were keeping quiet blissfully watching their country export terror to us in the name of helping their Kashmiri "brothers". What they did not realize is that this kind of fundamentalist mentality can never be controlled. Unless crushed the hardliners and Taliban will not stop till they have their hands on the most prized possession of the Islamic world - the nuclear bomb.[/quote'] And what do you call the behaviour of the Indian army in Kashmir matey? Bad as the LeT!! :giggle:
hassan_113 Posted March 6, 2009 Posted March 6, 2009 Thats very diabolical now isnt it Triam. Instead of raising the question about West, which is indeed a relevant one if I may add, we are completing dismissing that angle and training all our guns towards Pakistan. Yes Pakistan has its faults but the behaviour of many Indians at this tragedy is nothing but stupid. For example. Many Indian posters are currently saying - The chicken has come home to roost. Now would you expect the same Indians to same the exact same line to an ordinary American after 911?? Course not. They would be kicked in their face and sent packing home with their H1B striked out. It is fairly easy to agree that 911 happened because of US policies. So well chicken did come home to roost back then, doesn't it? Further your point about West, oddly enough the worst Pakistan critics are also those who happen to reside in US/UK and spew venom. I dare say I am one of those who have been more criticial of Western hypocracy than many others who simply have jumped on hate bandwagon. xxx I defo agree.....I don't show hate towards India here from UK......some Paks may do, but a lot of US/UK Indians do- esp US Indians who seem to take the attitude from their governments over the years. The quote I highlighted is important. It is so easy to jump on a hate bandwagon- and very hard to jump off.
dial_100 Posted March 6, 2009 Posted March 6, 2009 Now the Million dollar question... How to make those fanatic stable??? And what is stable? They have nukes, They get Billion every year. They can use it anywhere they want.? Other than not playing cricket and some trades, India is not harming them so that they wont progress and get stable. The point is that how is india stopping their progress or stability.... So if we agree that stable Pakistan will be more helpful to India.. How in the world would you do that????? With the nutcase mentality people leading their country, we should sit and hope they get stable and we will be better off....Usse se pehle... BIRBAL ki khichadi pak jayegi..
Lurker Posted March 6, 2009 Posted March 6, 2009 So if we agree that stable Pakistan will be more helpful to India.. How in the world would you do that????? With the nutcase mentality people leading their country, we should sit and hope they get stable and we will be better off....Usse se pehle... BIRBAL ki khichadi pak jayegi.. That is a million dollar question, obviously, and there are no easy answers. One measure that can be taken is what world powers have done with North Korea, that is put pressure on it from the very same countries that support it (read China). Pakistan needs to have a round table conference with powers that can help it. My opinion the 5 countries would be - US, Saudi Arab, India, China possibly England. I am also the first one to agree it may sound ridiculous and even dismissive but frankly Pakistan today is in a position where it can not stabilize by itself. China's influence can be the key here. xxx
dial_100 Posted March 6, 2009 Posted March 6, 2009 That is a million dollar question, obviously, and there are no easy answers. One measure that can be taken is what world powers have done with North Korea, that is put pressure on it from the very same countries that support it (read China). Pakistan needs to have a round table conference with powers that can help it. My opinion the 5 countries would be - US, Saudi Arab, India, China possibly England. I am also the first one to agree it may sound ridiculous and even dismissive but frankly Pakistan today is in a position where it can not stabilize by itself. China's influence can be the key here. xxx Why on the earth do you expect China to help them. Their help to Pakis is only strategic. Trust me, if anything goes wrong, they will pull out and will never look at them again. We all know the history of how much US has helped the countries who are gone ashes in the past. Saudi does not give a damn about Pak.... that leaves us. And Pakis have huge problem with Indians. For them to take any help from India, they will need to change their mindset almost 180. Which is not happening. It is like I have a bad credit history and I expect someone to help me. But I go on cheating the one who is helping me. I dont know how that will work. I need a simple answer as to How india has damaged Pakistan....What is that India has done to take pakistan where they are right now....Even if for argument sake we say Kashmir is their problem. So just because they dont have kashmir, they go on shooting the convoy of Srilankan team ??? Just think for yourself, Pak isn;t a baby anymore... They are grown up now. They had their freedom for 60 years. If they go on killing their own people (about dozen of their own people died), why do we expect to give them our piece of land. For what. A bad behaving boy asking for a toy which does not belong to him. and he has to understand it until then he is not considered grown-up.... oh heck... this discussion is useless.. discussing pakistan is like wasting time. We will continue to face the consequences of their existence or non-existence ... No matter what.
suraj Posted March 6, 2009 Posted March 6, 2009 Why on the earth do you expect China to help them. Their help to Pakis is only strategic. Trust me, if anything goes wrong, they will pull out and will never look at them again. We all know the history of how much US has helped the countries who are gone ashes in the past. Saudi does not give a damn about Pak.... that leaves us. And Pakis have huge problem with Indians. For them to take any help from India, they will need to change their mindset almost 180. Which is not happening. It is like I have a bad credit history and I expect someone to help me. But I go on cheating the one who is helping me. I dont know how that will work. I need a simple answer as to How india has damaged Pakistan....What is that India has done to take pakistan where they are right now....Even if for argument sake we say Kashmir is their problem. So just because they dont have kashmir, they go on shooting the convoy of Srilankan team ??? Just think for yourself, Pak isn;t a baby anymore... They are grown up now. They had their freedom for 60 years. If they go on killing their own people (about dozen of their own people died), why do we expect to give them our piece of land. For what. A bad behaving boy asking for a toy which does not belong to him. and he has to understand it until then he is not considered grown-up.... oh heck... this discussion is useless.. discussing pakistan is like wasting time. We will continue face the consequences of their existence or non-existence ... No matter what. and this is the harsh reality!! India's focus now is purely on economy rather than acquiring more territory or spreading a particular religion but still every minute Pakistanis feel India is the enemy and needs to be destroyed. What can you discuss in such a scenario??
Lurker Posted March 6, 2009 Posted March 6, 2009 Why on the earth do you expect China to help them. Their help to Pakis is only strategic. Trust me, if anything goes wrong, they will pull out and will never look at them again. We all know the history of how much US has helped the countries who are gone ashes in the past. Saudi does not give a damn about Pak.... that leaves us. And Pakis have huge problem with Indians. For them to take any help from India, they will need to change their mindset almost 180. Which is not happening. It is like I have a bad credit history and I expect someone to help me. But I go on cheating the one who is helping me. Easy answer beacause an unstable Pakistan is NOT in China's interest. You really think China would be delighted at having a rag tag country of 200 million odd people and Nuclear warheads? Even if you forget all the natural logic that comes with living next to a ravaged country, millions of refugees and threat of Nuclear war, you should remember that for China the biggest "want" right now is Gasoline. They are already the 2nd biggest consumer in the world and like India they dont have any resource. They have tried to lay a pipeline to Middle East (via Pakistan) and develop a trade port to take care of this desire. How exactly does that work in an unstable Pakistan?? China's desire to participate would be both economic as well as strategic. The big difference of course is Chinese would make their decisions silently, and solidly. Indians on the other hand would not make any decisions but keep beating their chest with rhetorics. xxx
dial_100 Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 First of all China's main population is about 3000+ miles away from Pakistan if going by geography...Now agree that the work that India did to get that Gasoline pipeline through Pakistan failed because of these volatile relations between two nation and China definitely sees opportunity to get lion share into that project to fulfill their domestic needs. But they are surviving w/o it today...Other than giving Arms and Nuclear technology to Pakistan, what have they done for them??? On the contrary we Indians on many front mingle with Pakistanis in many walks of life when it comes to culture/art. We have our relations still alive in that country. Or else why would we even bother about them. I would be all for helping them if I see a slightest sign of their desire to change. Come out of that dirt of terrorism and religeous ideology. They need not to soften on their religion if they peacefully follow it in Pakistan w/o bothering about Indians and Indian muslims/Kashmiris. Can they do that????? Masla vahi to hai sarkar...
punjabi_khota Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Now the Million dollar question... How to make those fanatic stable??? And what is stable? They have nukes, They get Billion every year. They can use it anywhere they want.? Other than not playing cricket and some trades, India is not harming them so that they wont progress and get stable. The point is that how is india stopping their progress or stability.... So if we agree that stable Pakistan will be more helpful to India.. How in the world would you do that????? With the nutcase mentality people leading their country, we should sit and hope they get stable and we will be better off....Usse se pehle... BIRBAL ki khichadi pak jayegi.. We don't. And anyways, good luck with the stabilization. Kryptonite will be found before Pakistan stabilizes. All their eigenvalues are at infinity, way outside the unit circle. India has been fooled way too many times, but they say the ones who don't change after being fooled once, deserve to be fooled again and again.
cochise Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Pakistan appears to be a prostitute country. They are basically a client state for US/China. Outside of that, there appears to be no internal dynamic for a destiny at all. What am I saying? Of course there is. Taliban styly...but that is not destiny. That is a death wish. Good luck neighbours.
cochise Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Pakistan is the condom US needed to enter Afghanistan. Having served its purpose, it's been flushed down the toilet. They make their own toilet. This is the problem with prostitutes like Pakis. They do not know what is in their power and what is not. It is very sad.
Lurker Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 This reminds me of a graphic comment attributed to some Pakistani official long ago: Pakistan is the condom US needed to enter Afghanistan. Having served its purpose, it's been flushed down the toilet. Bogus statement. US needed Pakistan first and foremost to establish relations with China to encircle USSR. Nixon visited China secretly during his official visit to Pakistan way back in 1972. Afganistan came almost 7-8 years later.
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