When will we have an express fast bowler?

[rkt.india]

Wait a minute...so you do admit then that Marshall' date= Akhtar, etc. are 'similar pace'...thats what I've been saying the whole way around! I don't know why you cant tell the fact that Umesh is faster than Bhuvi from the stands or that Umesh and Mitchell Johnson are kinda the same speed these days. I dont think its that hard to tell that apart. As i said,factor in what batsmen who've faced them say and thats gotto mean a lot.

I never said that. Where did you see Akhtar and Marshall bowler together. I was talking about guessing speeds in a live match with naked eyes. I am not saying you cannot tell who is quicker betwen UY and BK from stands. Everyone can tell that. I am talking about seeing a bowler in the stands who you dont know much about and then guessing what speeds he is bowling. Like the example I gave above. I did not say you compare any bowlers. I say you cannot guess exact pace of a bowler that way.

[Muloghonto]

I never said Wasim and Waqar were express bowlers. Waqar was quicker than Wasim for sure. For me' date=' [b']Johnson is faster than what Wasim was.

An ignorant statement, but i shall let it pass.

Another misconception. Walsh, Mcgrath, Pollock were not fast or express bowlers. Mcgrath, Walsh and Pollock particularly were medium fast to fast medium bowlers. I have seen Walsh bowling in 120s. It is about how much effort one puts in. Brett Lee was the best athlete among express bowlers in last decade and he has the best smoothest runup and effortless action in the history of cricket I have seen.

No misconception, you missed the point. The point was not that McGrath and Walsh were express, the point is they bowled at the same speeds whole day. This is what they had common with the express men like Marshall and Holding- express men who bowled at the same speed all day. As for Brett being the best athlete, again LOL, kiddo. Brett was no fitness guru. He was too brittle and is by no means a shining beacon of athletic supremacy combined with indestructable fitness.

What exceptional in that. Most fast bowlers do that who can bowl at that pace or quicker.

Exceptional is not dropping your pace as you go through. Because its tiredness which causes drop in pace but also causes more erratic bowling. The fast bowler who bowls at 150kph normally but suffers from loss of pace and bowls between 140-150 is a lot less effective than the guy who bowls at the 135kph all day long in the latter parts of the day. This is where bowling with the old ball also comes into play.

I dont go just by words when I can see videos too.

You simply do not realize how video means nothing, do you ? You are not seeing a match, you are seeing a delivery or two, that too of this bowler only. Often times the aspect ratios are different, so are the camera angles, so you really do not know how fast they are bowling. And dont be disingenous- you dont 'just go by words' ? you dont go by words, period. In your world, what people with first hand experience say mean nothing, its all about what your little brain thinks is possible or not from a patchy conceptual understanding of visual media to real 3-d projecting and overrides it all.

Writers, former cricketers exaggerate things a lot. Even 90 mph is pretty quick for any batsman and when there is no speed guns, you cannot assess what express pace they were talking about that bowler was bowling.

I am more inclined to believe that kids who havnt experienced or seen what we are talking about are far more dismissive of the past than the past being exgaggerated. We can assess what express pace was based on what the batsmen told us. People like Gavaskar, etc.have had plenty of opportunity to see Akhtar from the nets too. I'd take Gavaskar's word over whether Marshall was express speed or not over your limited understanding of video evidence any day of the week.

So you think Marshall was quicker than Akhtar. I think this is he weirdest thing I have heard.

After 3 overs in a trot ? most likely. After 5 overs ? Every single time. After 7 overs ? Well wait- Akthar was never fit enough to bowl 7 overs in a trot. So doesnt matter, his bowling has to take a backseat to Marshall.

Get your facts right, Agarkar was as quick as Walsh. I have seen Walsh bowling 120 ks. Walsh was basically medium fast to fast medium, cannot even consider him fast, same for Ambrose.

Yes because Walsh had the game's best ever slower ball, which he used a lot in the latter days as he got old AND his workload got worse (coz Rose, Dillon, etc didnt pan out). Walsh in the 80s to mid 90s was faster than Agarkar, who very rarely broke 140kph for the whole spells.

Their strength was their accuracy and bounce, not pace. It is Bishop who I can call fast to express bowler before his injury

Bishop was express before injury but Patterson was even faster. but again, Bishop was not fit enough to sustain the extreme speeds for entire sessions like Marshall, Holding could.

[Muloghonto]

I never said that. Where did you see Akhtar and Marshall bowler together. I was talking about guessing speeds in a live match with naked eyes. I am not saying you cannot tell who is quicker betwen UY and BK from stands. Everyone can tell that. I am talking about seeing a bowler in the stands who you dont know much about and then guessing what speeds he is bowling. Like the example I gave above. I did not say you compare any bowlers. I say you cannot guess exact pace of a bowler that way.

If you never said that, then why is your analogy to Marshall vs Akhtar that of 'similar pace of Bhuvi and Vinay' ? I am not guessing exact pace, i am giving a range of pace. whether someone is 147-150 range or 140-145 range is discernable. I am also saying that Marshall looked just as fast as Akthar did AND everyone who's faced him said that the guy was one of the fastest they've faced- bear in mind that many who faced Marshall also faced Thommo and still said that in the early-mid 80s, Marshall was just as fast as Thommo. This means a lot more than your so-called 'rkt.india video evidence special' does.

[Muloghonto]

What frame rate? Frame rates are same even now than what they were back then.

Sorry, wrong terminology- i meant aspect ratio.

[Junyfan]

to be honest i have never seen an indian fast bowler clocking 150kh let alone 160kh at "international" level,

[Muloghonto]

to be honest i have never seen an indian fast bowler clocking 150kh let alone 160kh at "international" level' date='[/quote'] neither have I. But Umesh will get close to the 150kph zone. He can crank it up to 145-147 pretty consistently these days.

[FischerTal]

to be honest i have never seen an indian fast bowler clocking 150kh let alone 160kh at "international" level' date='[/quote'] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF1UKbrPuaM]umesh yadav 152.5 kph - YouTube[/ame]

[rkt.india]

A As for Brett being the best athlete, again LOL, kiddo. Brett was no fitness guru. He was too brittle and is by no means a shining beacon of athletic supremacy combined with indestructable fitness.

Being a great athlete and getting injured are two different things. Injury happens due to work load and high pressure on body while bowling at high pace. Being a great athlete is agility of the body and being natural as a sportsman. Brett Lee had a great runup and bowling action to produce high pace. Holding too had that. and then Alan Donald. These are three best runup and actions in cricket you would see. Marshall had good runup but his bowling lacked the finesse of these three to generate extreme pace. Akhtar was a power bowler. Marshall was skiddy.

[rkt.india]

neither have I. But Umesh will get close to the 150kph zone. He can crank it up to 145-147 pretty consistently these days.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNbks-qOn-w]Ishant Sharma 152.2km/h @BowlingSpeeds on twitter - YouTube[/ame] read whats written in description.

Ishant Sharma to Ricky Ponting fastest ball of the day. Boxing day test 2011. Day 3 Sharma's fastest balls- 152.2, 150.0, 149.9, 149.7, 149.5

[rkt.india]

to be honest i have never seen an indian fast bowler clocking 150kh let alone 160kh at "international" level' date='[/quote'] This was on Aus tour.

[JaFanatic]

to be honest i have never seen an indian fast bowler clocking 150kh let alone 160kh at "international" level' date='[/quote'] umesh and ishant has bowled a lot of 150ks in aus tour and ipl matches even vinny kumaran has bowled one ball at 150 :finger:

[rkt.india]

Another of those comment on this forum.

This might be the first time in many many years that India playing Australia and the fastest bowler in the match is from India that too by a long margin, 6 ks. Australian fastest bowl was 145 k. And the great thing is, not only does he hit 151 k, but he hit it at least 5 times and through the match, he was consistently over 90 miles and his first 6 overs were around 146-151 and he never let Australian batsmen get away

[panther]

Umesh is fast he bowls 140k average in most of his spells that is enough to be considered fast, but not express.

[someone]

For a start, when did we ever have a true world class bowler in this century. Do not give Kumble as he is nowhere near the class of the legends.

[rkt.india]

: PS: I know how cricket was different in the 80s to how they are now. I was there to watch it. Did you watch it or is this another 'video based knowledge from watching 10 30 minute videos online' ?

By watching the same online videos, I consider Thommo, Lillie, Holding, Bishop, etc. express at their peak, so why should I have a different criteria for other bowlers?

[rkt.india]

For a start' date=' when did we ever have a true world class bowler in this century. Do not give Kumble as he is nowhere near the class of the legends.[/quote'] Why would you not include Kumble in that list?

[someone]

Why would you not include Kumble in that list?

He might be the best Indian bowler but that does not mean he was world class.

[rkt.india]

He might be the best Indian bowler but that does not mean he was world class.

You dont get 600 plus wickets without being world class.

[someone]

You dont get 600 plus wickets without being world class.

Inzi got +10000 runs but that does not mean he is world class. A good and great player. But not world class. Same thing with Kumble.

[FischerTal]

Inzi got +10000 runs but that does not mean he is world class. A good and great player. But not world class. Same thing with Kumble.

how many bowlers in test history have more than 600 wickets?