Why the hell are people blaming Dravid ?

[Params7]

Kohli got out to a shot after they made only 10 runs in 20 previous balls. It will get to you.

If THAT gets to you, then you're just 20-20 material and not made to chase 300. Imo.

[Params7]

Wish is something. Sure he would want to use power play. I am sure he would not have succeeded like he could not all day against spinners.

With a stable partner, even if its Bhajji who is playing maturely, he would have definitely. Even if he got out while doing so, the point here is he would have changed his tempo. We already saw that as he got out in a run out milking 3 of a 2 run ball, but most of it was Bhajji's confusion, point is he didn't deny the 3rd run.

[vvvslaxman]

If THAT gets to you' date=' then you're just 20-20 material and not made to chase 300. Imo.[/quote'] Problem is if you keep going at that rate (3 RPO) soon it would have become 7 an over. Remember we have a long tail. Collapse is always imminent. 6 an over is not difficult. But they were going at 3 an hour. So it was becoming 7 an over. You cannot keep on allow it to mount. You have to keep it with in reasonable range all the time especially when you miss one of your destructive bowler down the order. As i said when Raina came in the RRR was 6.50 when he left it was still 6.53. Inspite of such a brilliantly attacking innings it was still not going down. Why? If an innings like that cannot bring down the RRR what else will bring down?

[Chandan]

I am not blaming him solely but if I have to take all the reasons then he is surely one of them.. I believe that the basis of this loss is actually our bowling rather than batting .. it was a great effort to give a tough fight chasing 300+ under lights against a decent opposition bowling ... the match was lost to some extent when we gave away the 300+ runs ... it was a spinners paradise and Bhajji and co. should have capitalized on it.. instead all the bowlers except RP leaked our runs and make it work.. on the other hand Paki spinners went at only 3 RPO and that changed the whole equation .. there are also others like Yusuf' date= Kohli etc. who are to be blamed but Dravid is also one of the reasons for today's loss though not the only one

         
 Bowling O M R W Econ   
 A Nehra 10 0 55 4 5.50   
 [B]RP Singh 9 1 59 1 6.55 (2w) [/B] 
 I Sharma 8 2 39 2 4.87 (1w)  
 V Kohli 3 0 21 0 7.00   
 YK Pathan 10 0 56 1 5.60   
 Harbhajan Singh 10 0 71 1 7.10 (5w) 

So you think all the bowlers except RP Singh leaked runs? Where were you? RP Singh was the worst of the three seamers and Bhajji was worst, even worse than Kohli! .

[vvvslaxman]

So you think all the bowlers except RP Singh leaked runs? Where were you? RP Singh was the worst of the three seamers and Bhajji was worst, even worse than Kohli! .

I also saw that :haha: But i genuinely believe it is just a mistake.

[coffee_rules]

Difference is Dravid is not that good these days in dominating an attack on a good day. He always plays at one pace. Most of his aggressive attempts were to tap the ball down to third man and he ended up failing most of the time. You gotta pick up a huge over in between while chasing huge scores. When Raina joined RRR was 6.50. It is not easy under lights. At one stage Raina brought it down to 6.11. Once he got out again it shot up. Basically his contribution towards bringing down the rate was zilch. He merely protected his wickets . In a 300 chase every single member should be prepared to accelerate.

May be he is. But it depends on what the team mgmt has given him instructions as to what role he is to play in the team now. If he has been told to hold one end up no matter what, then he wouldn't take too many risks would he? In a 300 run chase, every single regular batsman is also expected to reach double figures atleast.

[vvvslaxman]

May be he is. But it depends on what the team mgmt has given him instructions as to what role he is to play in the team now. If he has been told to hold one end up no matter what, then he wouldn't take too many risks would he? In a 300 run chase, every single regular batsman is also expected to reach double figures atleast.

If that is what his role is then India will continue to have problem chasing big totals. Taking singles involve no risks. If that is a risk then he is not fit for one dayers.

[vvvslaxman]

Listen guys. I am not here witch hunting. Even when he came back i feared for this. The old school approach which just gets you nowhere. If we go back to Dravid recall announcement thread i had mentioned this. But i was okay because i thought he was going to retire after CT. I am not even sure he will do now with his scores.

[Chandan]

If that is what his role is then India will continue to have problem chasing big totals. Taking singles involve no risks. If that is a risk then he is not fit for one dayers.

I don't think so. If 8 of your 11 players fail to score anything substantial then you will have problems. Even if 5 players had clicked, we could have pulled it off. On the back of just 3 out of the entire team scoring, we'll always struggle. If you see, Sachin failed Virat failed Dhoni failed Pathan failed Bhajji failed Ishant failed RPS failed Nehra too didn't score a run How on earth do you even think of pulling off the chase?

[coffee_rules]

If that is what his role is then India will continue to have problem chasing big totals. Taking singles involve no risks. If that is a risk then he is not fit for one dayers.

His one-day role hasn't changed overnight. He has had a handful of useful plays in chasing big totals in his entire career (his 2nd innings average in won matches is 45, with around 70 SR). He can't reinvent his role after 350 odis. He is successful in his present role, that is why he is selected again, because they seem to feel a need for such a role. Given that the tyros are not successful in this role, he is just playing to his role in the team. I agree he is not a two-geared batsman, unless the pitch is good for batting and there are enough wickets for him to take risks. He was extremely scratchy in this innings, not free flowing he is otherwise.

[vvvslaxman]

I don't think so. If 8 of your 11 players fail to score anything substantial then you will have problems. Even if 5 players had clicked, we could have pulled it off. On the back of just 3 out of the entire team scoring, we'll always struggle. If you see, Sachin failed Virat failed Dhoni failed Pathan failed Bhajji failed Ishant failed RPS failed Nehra too didn't score a run How on earth do you even think of pulling off the chase?

If only Dhoni and Yuvraj used that excuse every single time our batting order collapsed we would have never reached no.1 spot.

[coffee_rules]

If only Dhoni and Yuvraj used that excuse every single time our batting order collapsed we would have never reached no.1 spot.

How many times have they done it, in recent times? Most of our wins have been setting a big total. The last time we changed a big total 275+ was : http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/335356.html Look at what Yuvraj and Dhoni got support from the top 3...

[Chandan]

If only Dhoni and Yuvraj used that excuse every single time our batting order collapsed we would have never reached no.1 spot.

Just show me any instance where a team has chased 300+ with only 3 bastamen contributing while other 8 together not contributing even 50 runs.

[vvvslaxman]

Just show me any instance where a team has chased 300+ with only 3 bastamen contributing while other 8 together not contributing even 50 runs.

Top of my memory Robin Singh 82, Ganguly 124, Tendulakr 44. chasing Pakistan's 316 India's first win chasing 300 plus. I watched that match completely. Robin Singh pushed Ganguly real hard for singles. They added 179 in 30 over mostly with singles. Zero risks.

[Jersey #10]

dravid is the culprit ....kick him out of the team

[vvvslaxman]

Just show me any instance where a team has chased 300+ with only 3 bastamen contributing while other 8 together not contributing even 50 runs.

Yea that was because everyone was up with the rate. There was no lull period. If he had scored 103 in 103 balls we would have been lot closer and it would have been lot easier to win the match. In future Dravid should come at 5 or 6 and let all others go after bowling upfront. If there is a collapse he can arrest and ensure a honorable loss. If they bring you within managable proportions he can calmly finish. No.3 is not suitable for him.

[The Outsider]

Why the hell are people blaming Dravid ?

Because they are nuts.

[Chandan]

Top of my memory Robin Singh 82' date=' Ganguly 124, Tendulakr 44. chasing Pakistan's 316 India's first win chasing 300 plus. I watched that match completely. Robin Singh pushed Ganguly real hard for singles. They added 179 in 30 over mostly with singles. Zero risks.[/quote'] This match you mean: http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/66136.html The entire team didn't get out in this chase! Plus, the top three did the scoring, meaning that the lower order didn't need to perform. Here out of the top order Sachin failed miserably. Had he given us a flying start like he did in the above match, we could have won here too.

[vvvslaxman]

This match you mean: http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/66136.html The entire team didn't get out in this chase! Plus, the top three did the scoring, meaning that the lower order didn't need to perform. Here out of the top order Sachin failed miserably. Had he given us a flying start like he did in the above match, we could have won here too.

Key part is how they chased. They took so many singles. It was a 48 over chase mind you. Robin strike rate was 98 hit just 4 fours and 2 sixes. Why didn't that happen today? Why were so many dot balls. What is wrong in getting ahead of the rate by taking singles. if not hitting boundaries. Why did they allow the required rate to climb up to 6.7 after it reached 5.88. It is your responsibility to maintain that asking rate within managable proportion. Afridi completely strangled him. He was just not getting anywhere. I feel like i am repeating myself as several posters respond and i respond to everyone. I guess i have made my point why it is important to sustain maintain in huge chases one way or the other. Hit boundaries , if you cannot hit atleast rotate the strike regularly neither of which happened.

[coffee_rules]

Key part is how they chased. They took so many singles. It was a 48 over chase mind you. Robin strike rate was 98 hit just 4 fours and 2 sixes. Why didn't that happen today? Why were so many dot balls. What is wrong in getting ahead of the rate by taking singles. if not hitting boundaries. Why did they allow the required rate to climb up to 6.7 after it reached 5.88. It is your responsibility to maintain that asking rate within managable proportion. Afridi completely strangled him. He was just not getting anywhere. I feel like i am repeating myself as several posters respond and i respond to everyone. I guess i have made my point why it is important to sustain maintain in huge chases one way or the other. Hit boundaries , if you cannot hit atleast rotate the strike regularly neither of which happened.

Because Dhaka != Centurion, as simple as that. How can you compare two different match conditions and pitches and complain that players didn't play the same way?