Prasad and Robin have been sacked by BCCI

[The Outsider]

I remember somebody on ICF mentioning about how correlation does not necessarily translate into causation.. Wonder who could that be..:dontknow::hmmm:

I am not attributing Zaheer's success to Prasad. However, during his tenure our bowlers, even rookies, seemed to bowl to a much better plan than they have been doing since. Do I have definite proof for it? No. I don't think Prasad was some genius who could transform bowlers' techniques or infuse in them the motivation to bowl 30 overs a day, but he was pretty good tactically in my opinion.

[Laaloo]

Can anyone get the stats for our bowlers and team wins after Prasad was sacked?

[The Outsider]

Why people forget that it was same Prasad's tenure when these same bowlers went down hill too so who was responsible for that. If Prasad was given praise for their good performances then he should be blamed for their poor performances too and for that he was sacked not because batsmen did not do well against short pitch bowling. No?

Downhill? When did that happen? Forget about batting and just look at the bowling unit: 1. England '07: They were coached by Donald and our bowlers outperformed them. 2. Pakistan '07: Pace bowlers didn't have much to do in home conditions. 3. Australia '07-'08: Despite the absence of Zaheer after the first test in which our batting crumbled, the bowlers were able to hold their own against an attack which had Lee and Clark at the top of their games. 4. South Africa '08: The batting collapsed for 76 runs. 5. Sri Lanka '08: Ishant bowled brilliantly. Batting collapsed against Mendis. 6. Australia '08: Brilliant pace bowling by Zaheer and Ishant. Australia had the "reverse swing master" coach Cooley. 7. England '08: Nothing wrong with the bowling. 8. NZ '09: Can't fault the bowling if the captain gives the opposition 600 runs to chase on a wicket where they did not cross 200 the first time round. Our batsmen were sitting ducks against the short ball in the T20 WC and that was the main reason Prasad was sacked. There was nothing wrong with our bowling performances overall barring the odd thrashings that every team gets on pattas.

[The Outsider]

so why do RCB have the *****iest bowling attack in the IPL?

The IPL lasts 50 days out of which 15 are spent playing matches and another 15 or so traveling. You expect Prasad to transform bowlers in 15-20 days?

[CG]

Yeah. Everything looks good in hindsight' date=' but then why people were crying for their heads?[/quote'] You can check my posts ,people who have some knowledge protested ,but some guys believed he was the reason our bowlers were losing pace :hysterical:.

[CG]

Downhill? When did that happen? Forget about batting and just look at the bowling unit: 1. England '07: They were coached by Donald and our bowlers outperformed them. 2. Pakistan '07: Pace bowlers didn't have much to do in home conditions. 3. Australia '07-'08: Despite the absence of Zaheer after the first test in which our batting crumbled, the bowlers were able to hold their own against an attack which had Lee and Clark at the top of their games. 4. South Africa '08: The batting collapsed for 76 runs. 5. Sri Lanka '08: Ishant bowled brilliantly. Batting collapsed against Mendis. 6. Australia '08: Brilliant pace bowling by Zaheer and Ishant. Australia had the "reverse swing master" coach Cooley. 7. England '08: Nothing wrong with the bowling. 8. NZ '09: Can't fault the bowling if the captain gives the opposition 600 runs to chase on a wicket where they did not cross 200 the first time round. Our batsmen were sitting ducks against the short ball in the T20 WC and that was the main reason Prasad was sacked. There was nothing wrong with our bowling performances overall barring the odd thrashings that every team gets on pattas.

Spot on we used cross seam balls and diff tactics ,which is gone know.I saw an indian pace attack outplan the aussie attack.

[G_B_]

The IPL lasts 50 days out of which 15 are spent playing matches and another 15 or so traveling. You expect Prasad to transform bowlers in 15-20 days?

he handles Vinay and Arvind at Karnataka ranji team (though not in an official capacity). There is no excuse left as to why these two especially the later have been horrible in the ipl. also the excuse that ipl is only a few weeks is not valid as every bowling coach faces the same issue. Its not as if Prasad is the only one facing these problems. One just has to look at the poor RCB bowling to point out the flaws in Venky. @Dexter its not a khichdi. Its a valid argument. Prasad will be benchmarked against other indian bowling coaches at the same time his impact will be accessed also by what changes he brings to other teams when he leaves a particular team. For example even after Prasad left the Indian bowling was good till world cup 2011 with a good solid tour of south africa. Its certainly not as if Prasad left in 2009 and we were ****ed immediately. 2 whole years the bowling was good.

[The Outsider]

he handles Vinay and Arvind at Karnataka ranji team (though not in an official capacity). There is no excuse left as to why these two especially the later have been horrible in the ipl.

He is not the coach even for the Karnataka Ranji team. He pops in off and on to give some advise and that's supposed to be a deal breaker despite the good showing of the national team when he was the bowling coach?

also the excuse that ipl is only a few weeks is not valid as every bowling coach faces the same issue. Its not as if Prasad is the only one facing these problems. One just has to look at the poor RCB bowling to point out the flaws in Venky.

Yeah, the same applies to all coaches in IPL - they can't make much of a difference in 20 days a year. The teams with an inherently better bowling attack suited to the conditions do better than others.

[The Outsider]

For example even after Prasad left the Indian bowling was good till world cup 2011 with a good solid tour of south africa. Its certainly not as if Prasad left in 2009 and we were ****ed immediately. 2 whole years the bowling was good.

In that period most of the matches India played were at home where spinners carry bulk of the load. Whereas our problem has been the pace bowlers. Spinners tend to do okay at home regardless of the coach give or take a bit.

[G_B_]

its certainly much more than popping in and out and advising. The fact is he helps out a lot during karnataka's home ranji games at the chinnaswamy. and there is no inherently better bowling attacks in the IPL. Somebody in Rajasthan like Trivedi despite being a trundler is coached well and bowls according to the pitch etc. Somebody like Arvind and Vinay get smashed come rain or shine. Maybe Zaheer needs to move away from RCB and move to some place like Delhi. Prasad cannot be much help.

[G_B_]

In that period most of the matches India played were at home where spinners carry bulk of the load. Whereas our problem has been the pace bowlers. Spinners tend to do okay at home regardless of the coach give or take a bit.

we had the tour of south africa away which we drew 1-1 and did well in the ODIs which followed. During the tenure of Prasad we had the tour of England and the tour of Australia. These are the major tours which took place away from home from 2007-2011 So we did play major opposition away from home and did ok. Which tells me the impact of PRasad was certainly not missed.

[The Outsider]

and there is no inherently better bowling attacks in the IPL. Somebody in Rajasthan like Trivedi despite being a trundler is coached well and bowls according to the pitch etc.

Yes there are better and worse attacks in IPL.

Maybe Zaheer needs to move away from RCB and move to some place like Delhi. Prasad cannot be much help.

Well if you are attributing Zaheer's poor performance to Prasad in IPL, then I should attribute his golden run to Prasad in test matches and I know which I would choose.

[Crookbond]

You can check my posts ' date='people who have some knowledge protested ,[b']but some guys believed he was the reason our bowlers were losing pace :hysterical:.

Are you serious? :ohmy:

[Crookbond]

@Dexter its not a khichdi. Its a valid argument. Prasad will be benchmarked against other indian bowling coaches at the same time his impact will be accessed also by what changes he brings to other teams when he leaves a particular team. For example even after Prasad left the Indian bowling was good till world cup 2011 with a good solid tour of south africa. Its certainly not as if Prasad left in 2009 and we were ****ed immediately. 2 whole years the bowling was good.

Dude, I asked you to pick one - which one are you arguing for ATM. Just explain in one line or use highlights.

[The Outsider]

we had the tour of south africa away which we drew 1-1 and did well in the ODIs which followed.

In the match Zaheer wasn't around we got slaughtered.

During the tenure of Prasad we had the tour of England and the tour of Australia.

And NZ. In all of which our bowlers outperformed the opposition. Can you say that after any tour thereafter even the South Africa 1-1 draw?

[G_B_]

i am arguing on both fronts. Which is very much valid. @L I said it cant be any help. I am not saying Prasad made him lose form. But i doubt Prasad is going to help Zaheer regain form. For the record, i dont think Prasad or Eric Simmons actually made that big an impact. They were lucky that we had Zaheer as a spearhead in form. But lets not attribute Prasad as the main reason we did well. His performances after india tell me otherwise. One day Mallya is going to realise his pacers are being badly let down by Prasad and fire him.

[G_B_]

In the match Zaheer wasn't around we got slaughtered. And NZ. In all of which our bowlers outperformed the opposition. Can you say that after any tour thereafter even the South Africa 1-1 draw?

seriously your going to now have NZ as a tour which should be mentioned? I can point to the tour of WI just after the WC which we won without 4-5 key players in which Ishant did extremely well. But lets not do down the route of picking NZ and WI as benchmark tours. and your just backing my argument up. Its Zaheer who was the one pulling out bowling upwards due to what he picked up in the county circuit. Not Prasad or Simmons. It just happened to be a co incidence.

[The Outsider]

i am arguing on both fronts. Which is very much valid. @L I said it cant be any help. I am not saying Prasad made him lose form. But i doubt Prasad is going to help Zaheer regain form.

I agree on that. Zaheer is too experienced to be "helped" by bowling coaches and he might very well be on his last legs. 34 for a fast bowler is not exactly an age where he can run through sides compounded by his overall fitness. If you read one of my posts above it wasn't in reference to Zaheer, but in regards to other bowlers who bowled to a plan when Prasad was the bowling coach and who bowl like headless chickens now.

[BeautifulGame]

In the match Zaheer wasn't around we got slaughtered. And NZ. In all of which our bowlers outperformed the opposition. Can you say that after any tour thereafter even the South Africa 1-1 draw?

Our tour to WI imo.And we didnt had Zaheer to guide the bowlers either. And we performed exceptionally well as a unit in the 2011 world cup too.

[The Outsider]

seriously your going to now have NZ as a tour which should be mentioned?

I don't see us winning a series in NZ with our current squad. And neither did we win a series in NZ for years and years before we won the last won.

I can point to the tour of WI just after the WC which we won without 4-5 key players in which Ishant did extremely well.

And Ishant did bowl well on that tour, despite the shoddy opposition. You seem to be concentrating more on the results rather than the actual quality of bowling plans and techniques that were employed. For example, you have discarded the Australian tour to India in '08 in which the cross seam reverse swing was used by Zaheer and Ishant and also again against England later in the year. Forget about the results, why was this successful ploy shelved after Prasad?