Why does Yuvraj get so many chances in test match cricket

[asterix]

I dont have the time to put it out in full form but long story short' date=' crap technique and crap temperament just cant make a test match batsman. MMs view is easily the most ridiculously pro yuseless one that I've seen.[/quote'] Exactly. Being a maverick player, he could be able to come up random 'match winning/saving' test match innings but you can't expect him to do well on a consistent basis. His current attitude and approach towards cricket and his fitness is actually insulting towards thos Indian players who are doing their best to perform for India (example Sachin, Dhoni etc.)..

[vvvslaxman]

The way he was hit on the helmet by mediocre bowler like Rubel Hossein was embarrassing.

[Texan]

I dont quite understand the logic behind Yuvraj holding a guaranteed test spot' date=' he has done very little. I can find [b']ten domestic cricketers who deserve a chance to play test cricket.

There you go - 1. Ajinkya Rahane 2. Murali Vijay 3. Cheteshwar Pujara 4. Manoj Tiwary 5. Abhinav Mukund 6. Manish Pandey 7. Virat Kohli 8. Rohit Sharma 9. Shikhar Dhwan 10. Dheeraj Jadhav I know some of you may point out the glaring omission of Badri, but quite frankly, his technique doesn't look impressive either.

[kooljatt]

The way he was hit on the helmet by mediocre bowler like Rubel Hossein was embarrassing.

tu kehlne chal ja fir... and :finger::finger::finger: u all moaners who think he does not deserve his place in test squad Yuvi after 32 tests Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 4s 6s Ct St 32 50 6 1582 169 35.95 2704 58.50 3 8 218 16 30 0 Laxman after 32 tests Mat Runs HS Ave 100 50 4s 6s Ct St 32 1928 281 39.34 2 0 - - 0 43 0 you guys can carry on crying and wateva u wish for.Yuvi is there in the test squad, will be there after 8 years :hatsoff:

[kooljatt]

There you go - 1. Ajinkya Rahane 2. Murali Vijay 3. Cheteshwar Pujara 4. Manoj Tiwary 5. Abhinav Mukund 6. Manish Pandey 7. Virat Kohli 8. Rohit Sharma 9. Shikhar Dhwan 10. Dheeraj Jadhav I know some of you may point out the glaring omission of Badri, but quite frankly, his technique doesn't look impressive either.

add some more to this list 1, fineleg 2. outsider or kaunsa powder or wateva 3.vvvvvvvvsssssssssslllllllllllll?( very very sharmnaak ladka) and all those idiots against Yuvi. p.s. no offence to any1, just defending my bro :icflove:

[The Outsider]

add some more to this list 1, fineleg 2. outsider or kaunsa powder or wateva 3.vvvvvvvvsssssssssslllllllllllll?( very very sharmnaak ladka) and all those idiots against Yuvi. p.s. no offence to any1, just defending my bro :icflove:

Nahin paaji offense shoffense kithe! Offensive to twade bra da test record hega - Average 35 after 32 tests.

[CSK Fan]

tu kehlne chal ja fir... and :finger::finger::finger: u all moaners who think he does not deserve his place in test squad Yuvi after 32 tests Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 4s 6s Ct St 32 50 6 1582 169 35.95 2704 58.50 3 8 218 16 30 0 Laxman after 32 tests Mat Runs HS Ave 100 50 4s 6s Ct St 32 1928 281 39.34 2 0 - - 0 43 0 you guys can carry on crying and wateva u wish for.Yuvi is there in the test squad, will be there after 8 years :hatsoff:

difference is, it was around this point that Laxman's performance really picked up and he was on the ascendency while UV's seems to have nose-dived now

[CSK Fan]

Below are the stats that shows how those batting at #6 have done since 1 Jan 2008 till today outside of their respective homes

         Player                Span  	         Mat  	Inns  	NO  	Runs 	HS  	Ave  	BF  	SR  	100  	50  	0  	4s  	6s  	
AB de Villiers (SA) 	        2008-2008 	9 	12 	2 	703 	217* 	70.30 	1362 	51.61 	2 	1 	0 	77 	2 	
TM Dilshan (SL) 	                2008-2009 	6 	10 	0 	622 	162 	62.20 	718 	86.62 	3 	1 	1 	77 	5 	
MJ North (Aus) 	                2009-2009 	7 	12 	1 	527 	125* 	47.90 	1097 	48.04 	3 	1 	2 	64 	1 	
PD Collingwood (Eng) 	        2008-2010 	7 	9 	1 	391 	113 	48.87 	936 	41.77 	1 	2 	0 	54 	2 	
VVS Laxman (India) 	        2008-2010 	7 	9 	1 	368 	76 	46.00 	686 	53.64 	0 	4 	0 	39 	0 	
Shoaib Malik (Pak) 	        2009-2010 	6 	11 	1 	347 	134 	34.70 	690 	50.28 	1 	1 	1 	44 	4 	
BP Nash (WI) 	                2008-2009 	5 	9 	0 	283 	81 	31.44 	695 	40.71 	0 	3 	0 	42 	1 	
IR Bell (Eng) 	                2008-2010 	5 	6 	0 	258 	140 	43.00 	555 	46.48 	1 	0 	0 	29 	1 	
JP Duminy (SA) 	                2008-2009 	3 	5 	1 	246 	166 	61.50 	614 	40.06 	1 	1 	0 	26 	1 	
MJ Prior (Eng) 	                2009-2009 	1 	2 	1 	192 	131* 	192.00 	247 	77.73 	1 	1 	0 	20 	0 	
DR Flynn (NZ) 	                2008-2008 	6 	9 	4 	184 	39* 	36.80 	504 	36.50 	0 	0 	0 	26 	1 	
SR Watson (Aus) 	        2008-2008 	4 	7 	0 	170 	78 	24.28 	382 	44.50 	0 	1 	0 	24 	1 	
DJ Bravo (WI) 	                2008-2009 	4 	6 	0 	166 	104 	27.66 	292 	56.84 	1 	0 	1 	20 	1 	
Shakib Al Hasan (Ban) 	        2008-2009 	3 	5 	1 	157 	96* 	39.25 	183 	85.79 	0 	1 	1 	21 	1 	
A Flintoff (Eng) 	                2008-2009 	4 	5 	0 	151 	62 	30.20 	411 	36.73 	0 	1 	0 	14 	1 	
AD Mathews (SL) 	        2009-2009 	3 	5 	0 	149 	99 	29.80 	213 	69.95 	0 	1 	0 	21 	2 	
Yuvraj Singh (India) 	        2008-2010 	5 	7 	1 	149 	54* 	24.83 	229 	65.06 	0 	1 	1 	24 	2 	

^ That says something! .... All-rounders like Flintoff, Bravo, Matthews, Watson and Sakid have done better with the bat than a specialist bat like UV! The top 5 run getter are averaging 45+

When Sohaib Malik oput performs you in tests, there must be something really wrong

[The Outsider]

When Sohaib Malik oput performs you in tests' date=' there must be something really wrong[/quote'] Malik? Flynn, Nash, Shakib, Bravo, and Mathooze() are outperforming him.

[falconhawk]

Why doesn't Yuvraj play his natural game? He's one of the best hitters. Why doesn't Yuvraj play his natural game? He's one of the best hitters. I say Yuvraj Singh is better than Sehwag when it comes to powerful hitting. In fact, Yuvraj Singh is the best T20 player. Yuvraj Singh is not a defensive player. There are other players who can defend better than him like Kohli. I am a huge fan of Yuvraj though.

[satishg]

so many yuvraj threads, i think this can be merged into the other thread, as people are discussing about his place and his game style as well there.. anyway on the topic, well it has to do with his mind frame me thinks, he does not feel secure at all in the test squad even if the captain and the coach says that he does not need to worry about his position, i think personally he lacks confidence at the test level. He knows that couple of bad innings and there will be people swaying for his position and hence he tries to play somewhat differently in the test arena. Only he can solve this problem, because everytime he plays a good innings we all think that it is going to be a career defining one for him wrt test cricket but still he grapples his way and again leads to his own downfall. More of self belief and self confidence needed in test matches for yuvi

[Rohan495]

tu kehlne chal ja fir... and :finger::finger::finger: u all moaners who think he does not deserve his place in test squad Yuvi after 32 tests Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 4s 6s Ct St 32 50 6 1582 169 35.95 2704 58.50 3 8 218 16 30 0 Laxman after 32 tests Mat Runs HS Ave 100 50 4s 6s Ct St 32 1928 281 39.34 2 0 - - 0 43 0

Dude your prime target seems to be Laxman, leave Laxman out of it as he is a middle order batsmen forced to open, what is between Laxman and Yuvraj as they are two different players ones more agressive and ones more classy and patient. Laxman is one of the best to ever player for india and theres no doubt about it

you guys can carry on crying and wateva u wish for.Yuvi is there in the test squad, will be there after 8 years :hatsoff:

[graphic23]

Yuvraj gets so many chances in tests? Please tell me you're kidding. The guy made his international debut in 1999' date= his test debut in 2003. In nearly 11 years of international cricket, he has managed to play a sum total of 32 tests. And you guys want to call it 'too many tests'? And this, despite him being our premier middle-order ODI bat for the last 7 years.

Premier middle-order ODI bat alongside the best batsman in the world today. Dont forget to mention that Sriram because otherwise you'd be implying he's essayed a role similar to the one that Sachin's done over the 90s. Yuvraj was helped by an excellent partner in Dhoni. And IIRC, Dhoni averages more in the MO (80 something at #3, and his lowest is around 40 at #7 or something). He's been playing since 2004. So thats for the past 5 years.

Since it will be a mind-numbingly laborious process to chronicle all of his test match inclusions, lets just start from the point when he made his most recent attempt at a place in the Indian test team - December 2007. Remember the third test against Pakistan? Remember Yasir Arafat's spell that reduced us to 64-4? Even if you dont remember that, I hope you remember the 300 run partnership between Ganguly and Yuvraj that followed. But, for that partnership, we were almost certain to have lost that match and hence squandered the series lead we had.

That was a terrific innings, agreed. Ganguly scored 239, IIRC.

On the back of that innings, he was picked up for the aussie series down under, where he failed miserably in both Melbourne and Sydney and justifiably dropped after two matches.

Agreed.

He then got another chance in the 3rd test against South Africa at home only because Sachin was injured, where he made a 30+ score in a total of 325. He didnt get to bat in the 2nd innings. Once Sachin was back, he was promptly dropped for the Lankan tour that followed and DROPPED again for our home series against Australia.

Because he didn't deserve a spot in the team. Virat Kohli and Rohit Sharma scored centuries against the Australian attack in BP XI vs. Australians game. Yuvraj didn't do anything of notice.

He made his way back to the team for the England series at home, ONLY because Ganguly had retired by then. He had that now famous partnership with Sachin in the first test and scored another 80-odd in the drawn second test.

The 84* is still his most significant contribution, IMO. He did well that series, agreed.

He was picked for the Kiwi series on the back of this performance, where in the second test at Napier, he put an unbeaten 100 partnership with VVS that played a (minor, albeit significant role) in the saving that test match.

Thats a ridiculous exaggeration. VVS scored a 124* against the NZ by smashing their bowlers around in the last session. At the other end, Yuvraj looked like he was facing McGrath and Donald on a pacy Perth pitch. He was dropped once or twice, IIRC. The 50 was anything but convincing. it was an edgy and lucky innings. And its not as significant as you make it out to be. We still had Karthik to come, who's not a bad bat.

Now, cut to the Lankan series at home last December. Does the score 32-4 in the first test ring a bell? Yes, it was Yuvraj again, this time in partnership with Dravid that helped us resurrect the innings and win the series.

Again, an excellent innings comes at home.

So, in the last 2 years, Yuvraj has played 6 test match series in total, out of which 3 of his innings helped us save 3 test matches in three separate test series (Against Pakistan at home, against New Zealand in New Zealand, against Lanka at home) from extremely precarious positions and one of his innings played SIGNIFICANT role in helping us win one test series (Against England at home).

As I mentioned above, you may please thank one Mr. Gautam Gambhir, Mr. Rahul Dravid, a Mr. Tendulkar, and Mr. Laxman for saving you that match at Napier. Yuvraj played the most edgy innings on a pitch that was so flat that it was SHINING when the sun shone on it. The innings vs. England and Lanka came at home, and were excellent. But do you notice a common thing in all his performances? They've all come at home or in the sub-continent. He doesn't have much to show for any tours abroad. I'll give it to him that he hasn't had too many opportunities but whenever he's been given a chance, he's duly disappointed.

What more do you want from you no.6? A 100 every 4/5 innings like a top-order bat? Given all this, can anyone tell with a straight face that he has been picked unfairly in the team, knowing that the ONLY time he failed miserably in the last 2 years (Aus, in Aus), he was immediately dropped?

I dont consider the tour to NZ a great success - considering that the attack was average and the conditions were not anything like they were 7 years ago when we visited and we played on gardens vs. Bond. So Australia is not the only time he's failed, and those failures weren't one that can be attributed to poor technique as that only plays a role to a certain extent. MS Dhoni doesn't have an attractive or a correct technique, and yet he managed to eke out 30s and 40s, and at the very least spent a LOT of time at the crease, and his 38 in the 2nd innings at Sydney came when we were trying to save the game (alongside Kumble's 45). Yuvraj scored a grand total of 12, and his average was 4 on that tour, IIRC. It has to do with mental strength and the willingness to do well - I wont claim that he doesn't have commitment as he clearly does, but his mental strength when the conditions are against him and when his form is against him is clearly lacking.

He has done what a no.6 should do - Helped us save and win test matches. There is no need for him to produce Gambhir like numbers.

Laxman played at #6 until Ganguly exited. Do you think Yuvraj and Laxman are even of the same class? Laxman doesn't have Gambhir like numbers but he's done extremely well against the best attack of his time at a variety of positions (opening vs. McGrath and Gillespie at Sydney, 2000), #3 at Kolkata, #3 at Sydney '08, #5/6 in a lot of other test matches. Using his batting position to justify his poor performance is clutching onto straws.

Some people have just got it into their minds that Yuvraj as a test cricketer is a perpetual failure and that unless someone is capable of averaging 50+ in test cricket, he isnt fit enough to be in the team. Sorry, that logic may apply for a top-order bat, but not for a no.6 batsmen, especially in a team like India

Same argument as above.

People can have their own fabricated perceptions in their minds, but unfortunately, the FACTS and RESULTS dont bear you out.

I dont think so. When you are being doubted as a batsman who can perform, you NEED to perform consistently when you're given the chances. We've got an enormous pool of talented batsmen in India, and we are stuck with Yuvraj because he's been "showing promise" for so many years now. Granted he's got good innings under his belt, but they are also interspersed among several failures, and thats something he needs to change before my perception changes about his capability as a Test batsman.

That said, should he be given an unlimited free-run in the team? No. Are there some significant shortfalls in his technique and temperament that pose serious risks to our ability to continue winning test matches? Absolutely YES. If the opportunity arises, should we replace him with some other player who is better suited to deliver in the stresses and strains of test cricket? Hell yeah. But, wet're still a considerable period of time away before which we have to start asking ourselves those questions because a) in the limited chances given to him in the last 2 years, Yuvraj has more than delivered as a no.6 batsmen

Thats your perception MM. I personally dont agree on that but given we've disagreed on this issue several times before, I wont go into it further.

and b) we dont yet have some who can step up and do the no.6 job with alacrity and stability. Till then, all the perennial Yuvraj doubters can keep living in their fantasy world of fabricated doubts. kthxbye.

And we know this because... ? Our previous #6 is among the best India's produced.

[Sooda]

When Yuv made that 169 Gangs did make a double hundred yep, and there was a test ton for Irfan Pathan too. That guy can bat a bit and his bowling will be a more than useful back up for front line seamers. He can be our long term no 7 (if MSD moves up one in the order)

[Ram]

Premier middle-order ODI bat alongside the best batsman in the world today. Dont forget to mention that Sriram because otherwise you'd be implying he's essayed a role similar to the one that Sachin's done over the 90s. Yuvraj was helped by an excellent partner in Dhoni. And IIRC, Dhoni averages more in the MO (80 something at #3, and his lowest is around 40 at #7 or something). He's been playing since 2004. So thats for the past 5 years.

My original statement itself implies all the 'add-on's that you have so painfully added. If I thought Yuvraj was our unqualified best ODI bat of the 7 years, I would have merely stated as such. But I recognize the roles played a)first by Sachin at the top of the order and b) Dhoni in the middle order since 2005. And that is why I have very clearly described Yuvraj as our premier middle order bat (obviously, I am paying my due respects to Sachin here) in the last 7 years. (not the last 5).

Because he didn't deserve a spot in the team. Virat Kohli and Rohit Sharma scored centuries against the Australian attack in BP XI vs. Australians game. Yuvraj didn't do anything of notice.

Sure, I am not questioning the decision to drop him then. I made it a point to say that because OP seemed to suggest that Yuvraj has repeatedly gotten picked in the test side, despite repeated failures. I just wanted to say 'That is wrong, he has been dropped from the test side..'

Thats a ridiculous exaggeration. VVS scored a 124* against the NZ by smashing their bowlers around in the last session. At the other end, Yuvraj looked like he was facing McGrath and Donald on a pacy Perth pitch. He was dropped once or twice, IIRC. The 50 was anything but convincing. it was an edgy and lucky innings. And its not as significant as you make it out to be. We still had Karthik to come, who's not a bad bat.

Again, even my original claim was EXTREMELY qualified. Of course I recognize the innings of guys like Gautam and VVS. Of course they were the one who actually saved the test match for us, hence the adjective 'minor'. And so, why the following adjective 'significant'? Because when Yuvraj came into bat, we had almost one full session to bat out and we had a lead of around 40 with 6 wickets in hand and I'd still describe that as an uncomfortable position, mainly because we have an umpteen number of times how batting sides have collapsed in the last session of day 5 Please understand, all the extra caveats that you have so meticulously added are already in my original claim. I didnt make carte-blanche statements like 'Yuvraj is our best ODI bat, full stop', or 'Yuvraj helped us save the Napier test'. Now, with regards to the part where you have talked about how he looked extremely uncomfortable and ungainly; My answer to that simply is 'He did what he had to as a specialist batsmen and played a role in us saving the match'.

The innings vs. England and Lanka came at home, and were excellent. But do you notice a common thing in all his performances? They've all come at home or in the sub-continent. He doesn't have much to show for any tours abroad.

But did you also notice, two of the three performances at home (Against Pakistan and Lanka) came when our acclaimed top-order got erased on SEAMER-FRIENDLY conditions on session 1 of day 1? Now, what does THAT say of Yuvraj's ability to handle seam bowling, especially when the conditions are fresh for fast bowling? And that's not the first time he has done it (Pakistan 2004) Look, I am under no delusions about Yuvraj's technique against quick, short pitched bowling in bouncy tracks, but I do think his ability to survive against seaming tracks is wildly under-rated.

I'll give it to him that he hasn't had too many opportunities but whenever he's been given a chance, he's duly disappointed.

He's had a sum total of TWO opportunities to play abroad in the last TWO years. Australia was a failure, no doubt, but there's no way New Zealand can be called a failure (it aint a success either, I'll be the first to agree), but surely, you are not going to label someone a 'failure in abroad conditions' based on just TWO test match failures in Australia, are you?

I dont consider the tour to NZ a great success - considering that the attack was average and the conditions were not anything like they were 7 years ago when we visited and we played on gardens vs. Bond. So Australia is not the only time he's failed, and those failures weren't one that can be attributed to poor technique as that only plays a role to a certain extent. MS Dhoni doesn't have an attractive or a correct technique, and yet he managed to eke out 30s and 40s, and at the very least spent a LOT of time at the crease, and his 38 in the 2nd innings at Sydney came when we were trying to save the game (alongside Kumble's 45). Yuvraj scored a grand total of 12, and his average was 4 on that tour, IIRC.

Dude, If you hadnt noticed already, I've already acknowledged the FACT that Yuvraj has some significant short-falls in technique and some minor issues over temperament, when playing abroad in conditions that aide quick bowling. My post was simply a defence of Yuvraj's current place in the team, that is all, because, once again, the OP said he does not deserve a place.

It has to do with mental strength and the willingness to do well - I wont claim that he doesn't have commitment as he clearly does, but his mental strength when the conditions are against him and when his form is against him is clearly lacking.

I disagree, I think he is mentally strong enough. We have seen that a thousand times in so many of the ODI chases he has orchestrated in the past and in innings like that 164 against Pakistan or 85* against England or 68 against Lanka. A mentally 'weak' player could have not played such innings'. I think his failings more due to technical short-comings, than mental failings. Yes, his temperament is a little suspect, but I wouldnt lose sleep over it.

his batting position to justify his poor performance is clutching onto straws.

It may look like clutching onto straws, but it clearly isnt. I've already said, Yuvraj has, in the last two years, done what is expected of a no.6 bat - Helped us win and save test matches. I'd like to know if you are going to contest that claim. If you actually do accept that claim, then why the pointless arguments over averages and playing positions?

I dont think so. When you are being doubted as a batsman who can perform, you NEED to perform consistently when you're given the chances. We've got an enormous pool of talented batsmen in India, and we are stuck with Yuvraj because he's been "showing promise" for so many years now. Granted he's got good innings under his belt, but they are also interspersed among several failures, and thats something he needs to change before my perception changes about his capability as a Test batsman.

And my point being (which I've tried to demonstrate so painfully in my first post in this thread), is just he has not just shown promise, but also DELIVERED in the opportunities given to him, in the last two years. Once again, are you going to deny that?

And we know this because... ? Our previous #6 is among the best India's produced.

Irrelevant. I am talking about people who can replace him as our no.6 right now, not someone who was a better no.6 in the past. If we had VVS class batsmen right now who can replace Yuvraj at no.6, I'd be the first one calling for his head in the test team.

[bharat297]

^MM ... I understand your arguments for keeping Yuvraj. My main counter to that is this ... While I agree that his performances over the past 2 years don't suggest he has failed ... but where I have an issue is ... unlike the other players in the team, he doesnt have a record to fall back on. Look at Gambhir when he came in the team. If he just hit the odd 50 here and there and played the good innings now and then, he would have no doubt had his spot questioned. What did Gambhir do, he scored and scored and scored until it became impossible for the selectors to even consider dropping him. Someone like Yuvraj who had to wait a long time to get a spot in the Test side hasn't cemented the no.6 spot with consistent scores. For that reason I think he hasnt cemented his spot and thus deserves to have his spot questioned. Its not enough for him to respond with one good innings. He needs to do it again and again and again to remove all doubt. The argument of not having a good enough no.6 to replace him is a bit short sighted given that there is a fellow named Badrinath who has scored over 6000 runs @ 58+ in first class cricket and has not even been given a single chance.

[The Dark Horse]

Irrelevant. I am talking about people who can replace him as our no.6 right now, not someone who was a better no.6 in the past.

I cannot get this point.. How can you surely say that there is noone capable of playing at no.6 without even trying anyone? In a year or two from now, all our big guns will be gone, then won't there be any replacements?

[pappu_kanghi]

There you go - 1. Ajinkya Rahane 2. Murali Vijay 3. Cheteshwar Pujara 4. Manoj Tiwary 5. Abhinav Mukund 6. Manish Pandey 7. Virat Kohli 8. Rohit Sharma 9. Shikhar Dhwan 10. Dheeraj Jadhav I know some of you may point out the glaring omission of Badri, but quite frankly, his technique doesn't look impressive either.

Badri >>> Jadhav I agree with rest of them .

[pappu_kanghi]

I cannot get this point.. How can you surely say that there is noone capable of playing at no.6 without even trying anyone? In a year or two from now, all our big guns will be gone, then won't there be any replacements?

Yes there will be replacements. Because Yuvraj will bat at number 4 then. Allowing him to bat with middle order batsman than the lower order or tailenders.

[thevortex]

There you go - 1. Ajinkya Rahane 2. Murali Vijay 3. Cheteshwar Pujara 4. Manoj Tiwary 5. Abhinav Mukund 6. Manish Pandey 7. Virat Kohli 8. Rohit Sharma 9. Shikhar Dhwan 10. Dheeraj Jadhav I know some of you may point out the glaring omission of Badri, but quite frankly, his technique doesn't look impressive either.

Texan - Badri's technique is not impressive. Ajinkya Rahane's and Manoj Tiwary's is? I am sorry - any which way I see this, it does not make sense. Even somebody as fluent as Murali Vijay does not have the technique of Badri. He is extremely competent. ________ Live sex webshows