Enough reasons to send Ishant back to domestic?

[Dhondy]

Did you watch the match post lunch today?

Chandan, it shows how far we have fallen from Jo'burg and Nottingham when you use a couple of wicketless overs from a young man to justify his potential. You know, I smiled when Laxman identified a lack of spin talent recently as his chief area of concern. Spin? Where are the pacemen? How can a guy, who can't buy a wicket if his life depended on it, make the cut? How does a 29 year old Badrinath, timid and fearful in his approach, be the first to lay claims to our middle order hiatus? You are a blue blooded fan. Tell me you can't see what depths Indian cricket has sunk to. There's the national XI. And then, there is nothing else, just a sea of mediocrity despite the enormous resources available to the game from the mafia who run it.

[cowboysfan]

it really doesnt matter how he bowled after lunch.at one point in the match mishra and ishant had combined for over 100 wicketless overs.that is simply not acceptable for the no 1 team in the world.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[vvvslaxman]

Did you watch the match post lunch today?

A fruitless but desperte spell has answered all the critics? That makes him worthy opening partner for Zaheer khan?

[vvvslaxman]

Fact is Ishant has no guile or any special skill or exceptional stock delivery. He doesn't have pace. He doesn't have decent bouncer.

[Dhondy]

This subject of fast bowling in India is highly prone to circular logic .... you cant produce quick bowlers without having the sort of pitches that are condusive to fast bowling .... While Iam no expert in pitch making but methinks it is simply impossible to create such pitches in India. To their credit BCCI did try to completely re-build a few pitches .... they even freakin imported soil from Aus (or was it NZ ) and experimented it on the Chinnaswamy track .... the end result was a big disaster. So given that .... the only other way for a quick bowler to suceed in India is to either master the art of Swing (which is simply not easy at all ) or learn to get wkts like Zack does these days and to do that you need sheet loads of experience .... and dare I say it took Zack ... the best part of the last decade to learn how to bowl on Indian pitches.

No, I am judging Ishant by the high standards he set himself Boss. Didn't he win a MoS against Australia not so long ago, reverse swing and all? Was it not he, who broke South Africa's back at Kanpur the last time around, coming back from injury? Did Jayawardane not single him out for praise and use him as an exemplar to bring in Dhammika Prasad for the final Test, after India had drawn level in SL? This Ishant is not the lad who inspired admiration and hope in us. He is an imposter. And you know well what I attribute his decline to.

[Laaloo]

This was the best spell of bowling from Ishant Sharma since CWB series 4 wicket haul which he took against Australia.

What about Galle 08 and Kanpur 08?

[Guest BossBhai]

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[msb1991]

I would not look to go too far with rating Ishant's spell, but it was promising. The speed was up to 88.5mph today and he looked dangerous with his bouncers. Tbf, this was the sort of speed, or at least close enough, that he was bowling when in his Test prime, for those few Tests after the Australia too. However, Ishant looked to rediscover his speed and general ability for one ODI against Australia, and the next ODI, the speed and ability was gone once again. So, imo, promising spell, but still needs some consistency.

[The Outsider]

Good posts, Boss! I would just like to add that in addition to Kapil and Srinath, the only fast bowlers who've done well in India is a who is who of the fast bowling encyclopedia, I posted stats for it a couple of weeks ago.

[cricketman]

I don't care how he bowled today, Sreesanth is a better option for team India. After all Sharma only picked up one wicket.

[thevortex]

Chandan, it shows how far we have fallen from Jo'burg and Nottingham when you use a couple of wicketless overs from a young man to justify his potential. You know, I smiled when Laxman identified a lack of spin talent recently as his chief area of concern. Spin? Where are the pacemen? How can a guy, who can't buy a wicket if his life depended on it, make the cut? How does a 29 year old Badrinath, timid and fearful in his approach, be the first to lay claims to our middle order hiatus? You are a blue blooded fan. Tell me you can't see what depths Indian cricket has sunk to. There's the national XI. And then, there is nothing else, just a sea of mediocrity despite the enormous resources available to the game from the mafia who run it.

Badrinath timid and fearful? A lack of fast bowlers? I am not sure where you get those ideas from. By any standards our fast bowling is in far better hands than our spin. Just take a look at a rudimentary list - Zaheer, Nehra, Ishant, Sreesanth, R.P. Singh, Irfan Pathan etc. etc.. Now try your hand at preparing a similar list for spin and I think you will see the issue. By the way Badrinath was solid but slightly stolid in his first Test - as was demanded by the situation in that Nagpur Test. Timid and fearful are the last adjectives I would have used to describe his performance.

[The Outsider]

Badrinath timid and fearful? A lack of fast bowlers? I am not sure where you get those ideas from. By any standards our fast bowling is in far better hands than our spin. Just take a look at a rudimentary list - Zaheer, Nehra, Ishant, Sreesanth, R.P. Singh, Irfan Pathan etc. etc.. Now try your hand at preparing a similar list for spin and I think you will see the issue. By the way Badrinath was solid but slightly stolid in his first Test - as was demanded by the situation in that Nagpur Test. Timid and fearful are the last adjectives I would have used to describe his performance.

So, with the tide in his favor we can surely expect a positive, match influencing innings from him now?

[thevortex]

As much of a match influencing innings as you can expect from a 1 Test veteran, The Outsider! :) I really do rate this guy very highly on the batting scale and will not be surprised if he makes a big one on this wicket. He is a 'made' player like Dravid rather than a natural one such as Laxman or Sehwag. Which is another reason why I think he is the ideal replacement for Dravid when that great's time comes. Oh and that is 'made' - as in carefully crafted and constructed batting game. As opposed to one that involves indugling in one's own natural game.

[punjabi_khota]

I think it is far too early to give up on him. We should keep him around, and maybe send him to county if possible. But he can't learn bowling on pattas by going through county cricket, can he ? He has shown us what he is capable of, and he has some traits rarely found in Indian bowlers (height, and hence bounce).

[Show_stopper]

I really do rate this guy very highly .

Well then its time we found out exactly how accurate your rating can be?:winky:

[thevortex]

Well then its time we found out exactly how accurate your rating can be?:winky:

I do not get you, Raina_Rocks :)

[Chandan]

Chandan, it shows how far we have fallen from Jo'burg and Nottingham when you use a couple of wicketless overs from a young man to justify his potential. You know, I smiled when Laxman identified a lack of spin talent recently as his chief area of concern. Spin? Where are the pacemen? How can a guy, who can't buy a wicket if his life depended on it, make the cut? How does a 29 year old Badrinath, timid and fearful in his approach, be the first to lay claims to our middle order hiatus? You are a blue blooded fan. Tell me you can't see what depths Indian cricket has sunk to. There's the national XI. And then, there is nothing else, just a sea of mediocrity despite the enormous resources available to the game from the mafia who run it.

This subject of fast bowling in India is highly prone to circular logic .... you cant produce quick bowlers without having the sort of pitches that are condusive to fast bowling .... While Iam no expert in pitch making but methinks it is simply impossible to create such pitches in India. To their credit BCCI did try to completely re-build a few pitches .... they even freakin imported soil from Aus (or was it NZ ) and experimented it on the Chinnaswamy track .... the end result was a big disaster. So given that .... the only other way for a quick bowler to suceed in India is to either master the art of Swing (which is simply not easy at all ) or learn to get wkts like Zack does these days and to do that you need sheet loads of experience .... and dare I say it took Zack ... the best part of the last decade to learn how to bowl on Indian pitches.

I think Boss answered your question better, Dhondy. You just can't consign a promising seamer to dustbin because of few bad tests. We all saw how painful it was to watch him bowl at Nagpur where he ran in and just pitched the ball outside off stump without any plan any thinking of taking a wicket whatsoever. From that to yesterday's spell was really a significant improvement. It was his spell which applied relentless pressure from one end and Zaheer reaped the reward from the other end. Cricket afterall is a team game and I would certainly not mind if Ishant exerts that kind of pressure from one end and other bowlers take wickets from the other end.

No, I am judging Ishant by the high standards he set himself Boss. Didn't he win a MoS against Australia not so long ago, reverse swing and all? Was it not he, who broke South Africa's back at Kanpur the last time around, coming back from injury? Did Jayawardane not single him out for praise and use him as an exemplar to bring in Dhammika Prasad for the final Test, after India had drawn level in SL? This Ishant is not the lad who inspired admiration and hope in us. He is an imposter. And you know well what I attribute his decline to.

He is just a 21 year old youngster Dhondy. You can't expect him of knowing each and every art of fast bowling. It is a long learning curve for him and I'm sure if we stop playing him in ODIs, don't muddle his thinking, let him think of taking wickets only, he'll be a very good bowler for India. Sreesanth was not fully match fit and in the only 50 overs game he played after getting fit, he returned with quite unimpressive figures and didn't look impressive at all, as per reports. So letting Ishant play was not a bad move. We must think that we need to keep these bowlers in a mix as Zaheer, Ishant, Sree and perhaps Irfan (outside India) are our only test seamers.

[msb1991]

We must think that we need to keep these bowlers in a mix as Zaheer' date=' Ishant, Sree and perhaps Irfan (outside India) are our only test seamers.[/quote'] It makes no sense to me to keep Sreesanth around the Test scene for home Tests. He has never lit the sky alight for Kerala and they play in the Plate League! Moreover, he has done little in Test cricket (not nothing, but little), full stop, other than the South Africa tour and playing the role of third best seamer against England.

[Karan114]

^^ What about the Lanka series, where he bowled the match changing spell at Kanpur?