Umesh Yadav touches 143.7! Is he an Indian?

[CoverDrive]

my problem is i never see him take wickets. what is all this speed good for

[rkt.india]

my problem is i never see him take wickets. what is all this speed good for

He has taken wickets of Laxman and Dravid in first Class cricket that itself says he has potential....not to worry, he will take wickets too.........

[express bowling]

my problem is i never see him take wickets. what is all this speed good for

Even if he does not take wickets at the moment, I can think of atleast 4 reasons why all this speed can be good for Indian cricket. 1) We always complain that our domestic players do not have enough chance to play genuine quicks. Hence they are unable to perform against fast bowlers when they play for India. If we start having bowlers like Umesh who are really sharp then these batsmen will get practice against genuine pace. They might develop the pull and hook shots better also. 2) If we Indians can develop a culture of having genuine quicks, by encouraging them to keep on bowling quick, then more fast bowlers will be produced and a couple may be of the wicket taking type among them and more lethal than a good medium pacer. 3) Umesh might end up learning the art of taking wickets and then he will be much more devastating than a medium pacer. 4) Genuine quicks soften batsmen with their pace and bounce and this very often leads to other bowlers taking wickets.This phenomenon is much more visible in tests and to some extent in one dayers also, although not so much in T20.

[vvvslaxman]

domestic players do not have enough chance to play genuine quicks. Hence they are unable to perform against fast bowlers when they play for India. If we start having bowlers like Umesh who are really sharp then these batsmen will get practice against genuine pace. They might develop the pull and hook shots better also.

That is a myth. Tendulkar, Gavaskar host of other batsmen never faced fast bowlers in domestic. Tendulkar simulates it by having bowlers bowl from 15 yard. They use bowling machines.

[vishalvirsingh]

yes

He has taken wickets of Laxman and Dravid in first Class cricket that itself says he has potential....not to worry' date=' he will take wickets too.........[/quote'] I just cant understand why does he give so much of room to the batsman to hit..why cant he attack on the wickets most of the time or on /around the offstump. in test matches - there r 2 styles one defensive and one attacking..in defensive style bowlers bowl way outside off and strangle the batsmen to take wickets but in that style , normally ballers fail and the batsmen scores a lot..hence the only style which clicks is attack wickets or on /around offstump... i cant understand why does eric or any other coach not teach him properly..if fast bowlers give width , our star batsmen in various teams will hit them. we have valthaty, gilly , rohit, and many other batsmen who can hit with width , hence if it is a speedster giving width , i feel he is wasting his energy. See dale steyn and morne morkel ..these guys attack stumps and bowl on the offstump or around it and hence they have succeeded, ZAK hasnt attacked wickets as much so he has been average. sreesanth also bowled outside offstump ...batsmen see the ball and hit the ball more often than not the ball reaches the fence.. there r hardly any slips so in t20..its better to bring the ball into the batsmen attack the body and the wickets..if a batsmen is attacked on the body he may mishit or mis hook or on wickets bcos if he misses than u hit. Umesh is loosing it..he balls way outside, varun got the wicekt of gilly bcos he attacked the wicket

[rkt.india]

That is a myth. Tendulkar, Gavaskar host of other batsmen never faced fast bowlers in domestic. Tendulkar simulates it by having bowlers bowl from 15 yard. They use bowling machines.

You are giving an example of 2 out of 1000s domestic players India have produced in last 35 years. It is a very low percentage, only 10 out 100s are good players of pace in Indian FC and few out of those 10 cannot play fast short balls well. I am not talking about T20 here. In T20 bowlers are smacked by noobs, I am talking about longer version of the game. Remember how many of our batsmen have done well on away tours because of enability to face fast and bouncy bowling.

[vvvslaxman]

You are giving an example of 2 out of 1000s domestic players India have produced in last 35 years. It is a very low percentage' date=' only 10 out 100s are good players of pace in Indian FC and few out of those 10 cannot play fast short balls well. I am not talking about T20 here. In T20 bowlers are smacked by noobs, I am talking about longer version of the game. Remember how many of our batsmen have done well on away tours because of enability to face fast and bouncy bowling.[/quote'] Viru, Gambhir, Yuvraj,... should i tell every single name? Indians never have issues with genuine quick. It is the seam movement. For instance Sidhu was one of the best against genuine quick. But he was pwned by Angus fraser 5 times in England. Against Bounce.. i can see guys like Raina struggle even against 127 kph bowlers.

[express bowling]

That is a myth. Tendulkar, Gavaskar host of other batsmen never faced fast bowlers in domestic. Tendulkar simulates it by having bowlers bowl from 15 yard. They use bowling machines.

Most batsmen are not as talented and / or dedicated as a Tendulkar, Gavaskar and a couple of others. Generally Indian batsmen have been troubled by even ordinary but fast and bouncy bowlers. You have to consider an average batsman whose performance drops drastically on a tour to SAF, Australia or the WI of yesteryears. In the current team Raina, Pathan, Vijay, Pujara, Karthick etc. look acutely uncomfortable again short quickish stuff -- much more than they should. Sourav Ganguly. Azharuddin, Siddhu etc. had the same acute problem. Everbody knows that practice makes a man perfect. The more practice Indian batmen get against genuine pace the better. Atleast there is no harm. I am not suggesting that Umesh Yadav, in his current stage of development, be grafted in the Indian team. But he should be actually played regularly in the A team, Zonal Team, domestic matches, IPL matches etc. and trained by the best.

[vvvslaxman]

Pakistan has lot of 'phaast' bowlers like Sami who could clock 93 mph. Do you see great batsmen coming out from there? . We are worshipping sami type of bowlers for clocking 145k. I though we were done with that worshipping 'gun barrell straight' bowlers like VRV singh.

[express bowling]

Pakistan has lot of 'phaast' bowlers like Sami who could clock 93 mph. Do you see great batsmen coming out from there? . We are worshipping sami type of bowlers for clocking 145k. I though we were done with that worshipping 'gun barrell straight' bowlers like VRV singh.

I don't see many people worshipping Umesh on this forum. But bowling quick is another type of bowling. It is a type that can be very useful if developed properly and India had lacked it generally. People are getting excited because this season we have seen 3 bowlers bowling above 145k and touching 150k+. Among them only Ishant is bowing well at the moment. I re-iterate that only good bowlers should be picked for the Indian team but fast bowlers should be encouraged and developed. If a fast bowler learns discipline and movement he can be a much better strike bowler than a medium pacer.

[vvvslaxman]

encouraged and developed - well India provides best opportunity for fast bowlers to grow. For one thing they get lot more attention than in any other countries. INdia has a pace academy. India has a competition like IPL to show off their potential. No fast bowlers are discouraged. They even gave a chance to Umesh to play international cricket. Played 3 matches finished with 1 wicket at an economy rate of 5.82 against 2 second string sides at a strike rate of 132. Umesh's domestic strike rate is 56 for this season. Even Joginder sharma has better strike rate. Strike rate is an important factor for a quick bowler.

[The Outsider]

. Umesh's domestic strike rate is 56 for this season. Even Joginder sharma has better strike rate. Strike rate is an important factor for a quick bowler.

Not that I am a pace fanatic- quite to the contrary actually, but you need to take numbers from Ranji within the proper context and with a bucket load of salt. Guys like Joginder and Gagandeep have exceptional domestic figures primarily due to a) tailor made grassy pitches with exaggerated movement which are usually not available at international level and b) the ineptness of a lot of Ranji batsmen against the moving ball. Just because there are pace bowlers with better numbers than Umesh in Ranji does not imply that they will be better at international standard wickets.

[vvvslaxman]

Not that I am a pace fanatic- quite to the contrary actually, but you need to take numbers from Ranji within the proper context and with a bucket load of salt. Guys like Joginder and Gagandeep have exceptional domestic figures primarily due to a) tailor made grassy pitches with exaggerated movement which are usually not available at international level and b) the ineptness of a lot of Ranji batsmen against the moving ball. Just because there are pace bowlers with better numbers than Umesh in Ranji does not imply that they will be better at international standard wickets.

It is a better stat to go by than just 145k speed right? I don't say Joginder is a better bowler. That is why i said "Even Joginder". We are just mind-numbingly obsessed with raw pace with nothing else to hold on.

[rkt.india]

Viru' date=' Gambhir, Yuvraj,... should i tell every single name? Indians never have issues with genuine quick. It is the seam movement. For instance Sidhu was one of the best against genuine quick. But he was pwned by Angus fraser 5 times in England. Against Bounce.. i can see guys like Raina struggle even against 127 kph bowlers.[/quote'] Sehwag was not good against fast bowlers initially...he became better after playing international cricket. Yuvraj is still not that good against genuine pace and bounce. Gambhir debuted in 2004 and only started doing well since 2008. and you didn't understand what i wanted to say, most of our batsman have learned while playing international cricket. Viru, Gambhi, and Yuvi are just few examples you gave. In the last 20 years, remember how many batsmen didn't succeed because of their inability handle pace, especially openers we had tried, 3-0 loss in Australia, because they usually take onslaught. We were fortunate to have Dravid at 3 and SRT at 4, we didn't have good openers for more than a decade. It is just 3 years since Viru and Gambhir are doing well as partners.

[The Outsider]

It is a better stat to go by than just 145k speed right? I don't say Joginder is a better bowler. That is why i said "Even Joginder". We are just mind-numbingly obsessed with raw pace with nothing else to hold on.

No, I am not obsessing about his 145 kmph speed. I think anything above 135 can consistently trouble international batsmen as long as it is accompanied other skills like bounce, lateral movement of the deck, or swing. Umesh is far from international class, but he has a good cutter and if he can develop the ball which holds it's line then he has good chances of success. At the moment he is too predicable and up and down bowler.

[vvvslaxman]

Sehwag was not good against fast bowlers initially...he became better after playing international cricket. Yuvraj is still not that good against genuine pace and bounce. Gambhir debuted in 2004 and only started doing well since 2008. and you didn't understand what i wanted to say, most of our batsman have learned while playing international cricket. Viru, Gambhi, and Yuvi are just few examples you gave. In the last 20 years, remember how many batsmen didn't succeed because of their inability handle pace, especially openers we had tried, 3-0 loss in Australia, because they usually take onslaught. We were fortunate to have Dravid at 3 and SRT at 4, we didn't have good openers for more than a decade. It is just 3 years since Viru and Gambhir are doing well as partners.

You clubbed everyone as failures again pace. In NZ 2003 why did we fail against Darrel Tuffey? Why coudln't AKhtar succeed against us in 2004? Tell me the number of instances where raw pace bowlers ran through Indian line up.

[express bowling]

encouraged and developed - well India provides best opportunity for fast bowlers to grow. For one thing they get lot more attention than in any other countries. INdia has a pace academy. India has a competition like IPL to show off their potential. No fast bowlers are discouraged. They even gave a chance to Umesh to play international cricket. Played 3 matches finished with 1 wicket at an economy rate of 5.82 against 2 second string sides at a strike rate of 132. Umesh's domestic strike rate is 56 for this season. Even Joginder sharma has better strike rate. Strike rate is an important factor for a quick bowler.

Tell me something. Why is it that most of the great pace bowlers of the last 35 years have been EITHER genuinely quick like Marshall, Holding, Roberts, Ambrose, Lillee, Thompson, Lee, Waqar, Wasim, Donald, Steyn OR Really tall bowlers who got steep bounce and pace off the pitch like McGrath, Walsh, Pollock, Garner. I am talking about real strike bowlers and not just accumulators of wickets at a slow pace by playing long. Bowlers who could take wickets at a fast rate in test matches. Only Richard Hadlee was a fast-medium bowler who was not extra tall. This man was really talented. This proves that we have a much better chance of producing a real strike bowler if we search for either genuine fast bowlers or real tall bowlers with steep bouncing ability. Traits like control and some movement can be learnt if a man is dedicated. Medium height medium pacers need to be something really special or have 7 to 10 years international experience to become strike bowlers. Some of the genuine quicks have after 6 to 10 years become fast-medium but with loads of international experience and added skills. A Quick or Super tall pacer can be a strike bowler for 80% or so of his career but a medium pacer can a strike bowler only for the last 30% or so of his career unless he is a rare rare talent.

[rkt.india]

Not that I am a pace fanatic- quite to the contrary actually, but you need to take numbers from Ranji within the proper context and with a bucket load of salt. Guys like Joginder and Gagandeep have exceptional domestic figures primarily due to a) tailor made grassy pitches with exaggerated movement which are usually not available at international level and b) the ineptness of a lot of Ranji batsmen against the moving ball. Just because there are pace bowlers with better numbers than Umesh in Ranji does not imply that they will be better at international standard wickets.

Certainly, pace is not everything for me too, but in the history of cricket if you leave exceptions like Shaun Pollock who has most often bowled in bowling paradises of SA, most of the great fast bowlers when started were fairly quick, even Richard Headly and Glenn McGrath were decently weak in their youth and they developed into better bowler later on with experience and there is no substitute to experience. Prime example Zak. He used to be quick when he came, but now he knows when to bowl quick and when not. He has spent 10 years in international cricket and now understands his bowling and his body. But a few people here are expecting newbies to bowl like Zak. It is too much expectations. Two or three matches are not good enough to develop a bowler at the international level. It is tough ride and we need to be patient. We already do not have anyone except Zak right now who can get wickets anywhere. We need Zak to guide our new promising bowlers and if they bowl along side him, they will certainly learn how to take and plan your wickets. Now some of our bowlers just try to bowl as fast as they can, the likes of Yadav, Aaron, and Mithun. It is not bad too, because this will make them habitual of bowling fast and steadily it will be very natural for them to generate good pace, but developing other skills come with experience and time.

[rkt.india]

You clubbed everyone as failures again pace. In NZ 2003 why did we fail against Darrel Tuffey? Why coudln't AKhtar succeed against us in 2004? Tell me the number of instances where raw pace bowlers ran through Indian line up.

Even Mitchelll Johnson has destroyed our batting in ODIs and has taken 5-fers. Surfaces play their roll like on those surfaces even NZ batsmen struggled, but still they won the series. If you get those kind of pitches even Collingwood will look like Steyn. Ganguly destroyed Pakistan in Toranto. Any bowler can move the ball in those conditions. Challenge is when you get patta pitches and swing-dependent bowler cannot swing and seam the ball. Like it happened in Centurian in SA innings, Sreesanth could not swing an inch. Then you need quick bowlers who can unsettle the batsmen and are accurate. One good spell and you are back in the match. It is all about accuracy. Mohd Sami failed because he was not accurate. Accuracy makes a big difference when bowl does swing or seam and slow fast bowlers become liability on those pitches.

[vvvslaxman]

Even Mitchelll Johnson has destroyed our batting in ODIs and has taken 5-fers. Surfaces play their roll like on those surfaces even NZ batsmen struggled, but still they won the series. If you get those kind of pitches even Collingwood will look like Steyn. Ganguly destroyed Pakistan in Toranto. Any bowler can move the ball in those conditions. Challenge is when you get patta pitches and swing-dependent bowler cannot swing and seam the ball. Like it happened in Centurian in SA innings, Sreesanth could not swing an inch. Then you need quick bowlers who can unsettle the batsmen and are accurate. One good spell and you are back in the match. It is all about accuracy. Mohd Sami failed because he was not accurate. Accuracy makes a big difference when bowl does swing or seam and slow fast bowlers become liability on those pitches.

Mitch Johnson, Siddle, Lee all bowled at 150k consistently in the tour before last tour to India. They were hammered like anything. As i already said. seam movement is the biggest enemy even ahead of bouncers. In Tests sure we struggle against bouncers. But we don't get out to bouncers much. Australia has experience against genuine quicks. But they have had their share of issues against genuine quicks. NZ had Shane bond. Yet they were consistently routed by teams that had genuine quicks.