Cricinfo's All Time Pakistan XI : No current players in Pakistan all-time XI

[satyam1729]

Two of the wickets were definate not outs, you can watch it a million times if you like, in fact let me get a link of the hat trick.

Now the first wicket is out, clearly plumb in front. The second was not out, it pitched a long way outside leg stump, so bad decision 1. Bad decision 2 was when the third umpire gave Warne out, in real time he only viewed one angle which didn't show anything as the fielder was restricting the view. So the third umpire gave a decision without actually looking at the footage properly, one restricted angle is NOT enough to give anyone out. I've seen some shockers in my time and I've seen teams suffer because of bad umpiring, but here is a case of an Indian umpire succumbing to the pressure of the crowd volume at eden gardens.

Have you seen the hattrick of Aaqib Javed hattrick against India at sharjah?There has been never cheaters like Pakistani [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V9xnMvgO0A]YouTube- Funny Gatting Wicket Pak v Eng 1987 Tour[/ame] Umpiring raising fingers without appeal. It is ridiculous. If I have put the umpiring 1) Pakistan --- ---- Day Light ----- ---- 2) New Zealand 3) Sri Lanka 4) India 5) West Indies/Australia 6) England.

[yoda]

^^ that second one was pitched outside the off and moving away. what a joke :hehe:

[vvvslaxman]

Pakistan umpires are the most biased . No question about that. Second is Australian umpires. I mean not the current one like Taufel. But the guys in the 90s and before.

[Mamu]

Two of the wickets were definate not outs, you can watch it a million times if you like, in fact let me get a link of the hat trick.

Now the first wicket is out, clearly plumb in front. The second was not out, it pitched a long way outside leg stump, so bad decision 1. Bad decision 2 was when the third umpire gave Warne out, in real time he only viewed one angle which didn't show anything as the fielder was restricting the view. So the third umpire gave a decision without actually looking at the footage properly, one restricted angle is NOT enough to give anyone out. I've seen some shockers in my time and I've seen teams suffer because of bad umpiring, but here is a case of an Indian umpire succumbing to the pressure of the crowd volume at eden gardens.

Regarding Glichrist -- If that was a long way outside leg stump -- some of the decisions that Asoka De Silva had given against India -- you should say were pitched OUSIDE the Stadium and some of those decisions that Bucknor had given against SRT (which you guys ridicule), not sure what would you say about that BUT I will say this Gilchrist was not out -- because --it probably and (probably ONLY) that he might have hit it. NOTHING MORE THAN THAT. Both ways --it was very close for somebody to make a good call. Even a Not Out was just as acceptable. BTW there was no debate about these decisions that you are talking about anywhere. I have heard some Whiny Aussies complain about McGrath given out wrongly but Warne and Gilchrist -- you are the 1st one complaning. Coming back to Warne -- If you can show CONCLUSIVELY AT ANY VIDEO where the ball touched the Ground -- I will hand over my head to you in a platter. in fact a Not Out would have raised a lot more questions considering that No Video shows ball touching the ground. It is funny that you yourself say that there was no proper angle to make a conclusive decison, but you want Warne to be given NOt Out just because of that ?? How did you decide that? Either way -- the point is these were so close -- I am aghast you are even debating them.

[Lurker]

Its a shame that a Pakistan XI thread has descended into an umpiring mess. Its all in the history, deal with it. The bowling portion should be much awaited. Here would be my nominations(lets see how many of these make up the list). Speed department Contenders: Fazal Mehmood Khan Mohammed Imran Khan Waseem Akram Waqar Yonis Soaib Akhtar Mohammed Asif Fantastic cast there. When folks like Sarfaraz Nawaz dont even make the cut you know the line up is good. Final pick: Waseem Akram, Fazal Mehmood, Waqar/Asif (Imran would be picked surely as all-rounder) Spin contenders: Iqbal Qasim Abdul Qadir Saqlain Mushtaq Mushtaq Ahmed Danish Kaneria with possible mention of Tauseef Ahmed and Inthikab Alam Final pick: Qadir/Saqlain.

[Mamu]

Two of the wickets were definate not outs, you can watch it a million times if you like, in fact let me get a link of the hat trick.

Now the first wicket is out, clearly plumb in front. The second was not out, it pitched a long way outside leg stump, so bad decision 1. Bad decision 2 was when the third umpire gave Warne out, in real time he only viewed one angle which didn't show anything as the fielder was restricting the view. So the third umpire gave a decision without actually looking at the footage properly, one restricted angle is NOT enough to give anyone out. I've seen some shockers in my time and I've seen teams suffer because of bad umpiring, but here is a case of an Indian umpire succumbing to the pressure of the crowd volume at eden gardens.

Oh I see what you are saying. Dude the 3rd Umpire at that time had to figure out if the Catch Was a Clean Catch or NOT. Nothing more that that. 3rd Umpire couldn't determine if the ball touched the ground or not. Rules in 2001 were different. The fact that the ball came off of Warnes Bat was determined by the Main Umpire. That was not something the 3rd Umpire could make a decision on.

[punjabi_khota]

Its a shame that a Pakistan XI thread has descended into an umpiring mess. Its all in the history, deal with it. The bowling portion should be much awaited. Here would be my nominations(lets see how many of these make up the list). Speed department Contenders: Fazal Mehmood Khan Mohammed Imran Khan Waseem Akram Waqar Yonis Soaib Akhtar Mohammed Asif Fantastic cast there. When folks like Sarfaraz Nawaz dont even make the cut you know the line up is good. Final pick: Waseem Akram, Fazal Mehmood, Waqar/Asif (Imran would be picked surely as all-rounder) Spin contenders: Iqbal Qasim Abdul Qadir Saqlain Mushtaq Mushtaq Ahmed Danish Kaneria with possible mention of Tauseef Ahmed and Inthikab Alam Final pick: Qadir/Saqlain.

asif ?:hysterical::hysterical: we are picking an all time XI player based on 17 tests he has played in like 6 years?

[Mamu]

Two of the wickets were definate not outs, you can watch it a million times if you like, in fact let me get a link of the hat trick.

Now the first wicket is out, clearly plumb in front. The second was not out, it pitched a long way outside leg stump, so bad decision 1. Bad decision 2 was when the third umpire gave Warne out, in real time he only viewed one angle which didn't show anything as the fielder was restricting the view. So the third umpire gave a decision without actually looking at the footage properly, one restricted angle is NOT enough to give anyone out. I've seen some shockers in my time and I've seen teams suffer because of bad umpiring, but here is a case of an Indian umpire succumbing to the pressure of the crowd volume at eden gardens.

BTW Here is the Match Report Harbhajan Singh really turned the magic on. Bowling his 16th over of the day, the Punjab offspinner claimed a hat-trick with the second, third and fourth balls. After trapping Ricky Ponting plumb in front with a straight ball, Harbhajan got Adam Gilchrist out first ball with one that kept low and struck the pad. Shane Warne coming in to face the hat-trick ball clipped one from leg stump to short leg where Sadagoppan Ramesh snapped up a smart catch. The matter was referred to the third umpire, Sameer Bandekar, who pushed the button on the red light and heralded India's first ever Test hat-trick. Of the three dismissals, the one that sent the dangerous Gilchrist back to the pavilion was the only one that gave room for any doubt. The ball that got the Aussie stumper appeared to come off the inside edge. However, even given that, Harbhajan's effort was one that cannot be belittled in any manner. Even that -- it was doubtful is what they said -- just like I said.

[Lurker]

we are picking an all time XI player based on 17 tests he has played in like 6 years?

True his career has been pretty short length at this time but his performance has been impeccable. I for one would surely pick him, more so considering he has performed by and large everywhere in his short, if checkered, career.

[punjabi_khota]

True his career has been pretty short length at this time but his performance has been impeccable. I for one would surely pick him' date=' more so considering he has performed by and large everywhere in his short, if checkered, career.[/quote'] I disagree. I think he can flourish only on very helpful wickets. Bhaisaab have you seen his performances in his homeland ? He averages 42 in Pakistan with 10 wickets in 4 tests. after his drug drama, he has been slower than ever before, and his performance on flat tracks will probably get even worse.

[Sooda]

Lurks youd pick Fazal over Waqar? And thered actually be a choice between Waqar and Asif Fazal was a very fine bowler (from what little I know) great cut and swing bowler -the Pak Alec Bedser, but surely not the same threat. Might make a squad of 16. Id have also thought Akhtar over Asif, having proved himself over longer, even if he did not do his talunntt any justice. Also quite interesting is that Fazal could nearly have played for India- think im right in saying he was pciked for and India squad just prior to WW2 that did not tour (or he might have been very close to being picked) would have been handy bowler to have with Mankad and defending the runs Merchant, Hazare etc got us back then.

[Sooda]

I disagree. I think he can flourish only on very helpful wickets. Bhaisaab have you seen his performances in his homeland ? He averages 42 in Pakistan with 10 wickets in 4 tests. after his drug drama, he has been slower than ever before, and his performance on flat tracks will probably get even worse.

Off the top of my head he won them a test in SL right...?

[satyam1729]

Off the top of my head he won them a test in SL right...?

That was with drugs

[Lurker]

Lurks youd pick Fazal over Waqar? And thered actually be a choice between Waqar and Asif Fazal was a very fine bowler (from what little I know) great cut and swing bowler -the Pak Alec Bedser, but surely not the same threat. Might make a squad of 16. Id have also thought Akhtar over Asif, having proved himself over longer, even if he did not do his talunntt any justice. Also quite interesting is that Fazal could nearly have played for India- think im right in saying he was pciked for and India squad just prior to WW2 that did not tour (or he might have been very close to being picked) would have been handy bowler to have with Mankad and defending the runs Merchant, Hazare etc got us back then.

I would actually yes. Fazal Mehmood was probably the reason why Pakistan has the best record amongst newbie nations. It managed to win against many a nation, including India, in its very first series. Fazal Mehmood alongside Khan Mohammed was the reason for this although Kardaar's captaincy played its role too. Considering how newbies take a long time to mature as a cricketing nation Fazal Mehmood effectively ensured Pakistan hit the ground running. Not to mention he would also pave the way for modern day Pakistani speedsters. If you look at his performance in matches won I suspect Fazal would rank much ahead of any other Pakistani bowler. The only flaw against him is that he was the king of matting wicket and jury is out on how he would have bowled on open wickets. I am reminded of an anecdote by Vinoo Mankad where he mentioned how India played against Pakistan in Lucknow on a matting wicket and Fazal Mehmood ran through Indian batting lineup with the winds of Gomati behind him. xxx

[Lurker]

I disagree. I think he can flourish only on very helpful wickets. Bhaisaab have you seen his performances in his homeland ? He averages 42 in Pakistan with 10 wickets in 4 tests. after his drug drama, he has been slower than ever before, and his performance on flat tracks will probably get even worse.

Hasnt he played very well in NZ, SL, Eng, SA and done fairly okay in Australia. Thats like majority of cricketing nations boss. As for performance at home, well its one chink in his armour but its not the end of the world. Most of the Pakistani tracks are graveyard for bowlers anyway.

[Sooda]

Fair 'nuff..and good pt re: Paks record in their early days. He did well in Eng too on Paks first tour there im sure he had a match winning 5-fer vs Hutton, May, Compton and the likes

[Lurker]

Fair 'nuff..and good pt re: Paks record in their early days. He did well in Eng too on Paks first tour there im sure he had a match winning 5-fer vs Hutton' date= May, Compton and the likes

The importance of formative years can not be overstated. There is a reason why Indians keep defending spin to be as good, or better than pace. It has to do simply with the performance of our pacers. Even though I would not like to be caught in that whole "Whats wrong with winning with spin at home" saga one can see how some Indian cricket fans keep saying that simply as a means to hide the fact we dont have too many wins away from home, specially by pacers. It took us a good 30 years to win in England, and West Indies. Even more against Australia. So when you have a player who gets you win right in the very first series he deserves to be in all time team based solely on that. Such wins affect not only the team but the pscyche of an entire nation. Of course Fazal Mahmood's performance go much beyond winning abroad.

[zen]

^^ Abbas was no better than Vengsarkar Did u ever take a look at his Test Record. It seems like he was a player with a lot of potential who could never translate his potential into results. I would have M. Yousuf over Abbas.

I haven't examined Abbas's record in detail. MoYo too doesn't have a good record against top sides like Aus and SA

[Mamu]

I haven't examined Abbas's record in detail. MoYo too doesn't have a good record against top sides like Aus and SA

That problem exists with EVERY SINGLE Paki batsman, with probably the lone exception of Javed Miandad. So who do you pick? So you get to choose from the lot, there is no way around it. Now some not so famous average batsmen like Wasim Raja (I think delivered against the WI), Majid Khan did well against the Aussies and English and Basit Ali against Aussies --- so you can either pick these guys up or go go with guys who at least seemed to have talent. My Problem with Zaheer is he did not deliver against ANYBODY on their home soil. Not a single country (except Eng). He bullied India when India visited Pakistan, but when he came here -- he batted like as if he was running for his life. To me a good batsman cannot be so different.

[king2be98]

Basit Ali was wasted talent in my book, a guy of his ability should have averaged 50+ in tests and over 40 in ODIs, but he is yet another in a long line of batsmen from Pakistan who cannot handle the pressure. To be frank, I would say that Pakistan have only produced one top quality batsman, Javed Miandad, the rest are good or average. Just goes to show how good our lower order has historically been and how our bowlers have carried our batting for decades now.