Jadeja needs to contribute more with bat: Dhoni

[Ram]

the problem with your posts is you lack enuf appreciation of how player evolves stage by stage. a player is different when he is 20, when he is 25, when he is 30. first understand that what you see today is not going to be the case even 2 years down the line. second cut off this nonsense about power game.its about timing. it usually takes years to achieve spectacular timing. the reason kohli or jadeja do not clear boundaries consistently now is they do not strike it well enough,. they need some more years.

First of all, we simply do not have the time to ‘see Jadeja evolve into a good batsmen’. He has already cost us some important matches with his inadequate batting (Why the Indian team management chose to send him above Yuvraj in the T20 WC match against England in 2009 is beyond logic. He nearly lost us the last match against Pakistan again, only to be rescued in the end by bhajji). The premier world cricket tournament is less than 10 months away and we simply cannot wait and hope that Jadeja magically metastasizes into an effective lower order batsmen. Secondly, its not like we have seen him play only a handful of matches and then jumping to conclusions. He has now played more than a season and half worth of international cricket and so far, apart from the odd lower-order salvage act that have ultimately proved worthless in the larger context of the game, he hasn’t shown anything to convince us that he is even remotely suited to the no.7 spot. No.8, maybe, but definitely not no.7 Thirdly, please come out of the time warp that you seem to be stuck in. In today’s LOI game, whether it be ODIs or T20s, power is EVERYTHING. If you don’t believe me, ask Kevin Pietersen, who after the recent T20 WC triumph, almost entirely attributed the success of the England team to the discovery of new players who could now clear the boundary. There are very few players in this world (like Rahul Dravid) who can be effective ODI batsmen on the back of their timing/class alone. And finally, you’re great disservice to Kohli by comparing him to Jadeja. Kohli is a far more accomplished, talent and more importantly, aggressive batsmen.

[youngindia]

First of all' date=' we simply do not have the time to ‘see Jadeja evolve into a good batsmen’. [/quote'] i have made the same point. however your hasty conclusions about a highly immature 20 yr old who has a long way to go does not hold water. in the years to come, things will change a lot more.

he hasn’t shown anything to convince us that he is even remotely suited to the no.7 spot. No.8, maybe, but definitely not no.7

playing matches does not make him a 25 yr old. years have to pass. he has to mature as a person. lot of things are involved.

Thirdly, please come out of the time warp that you seem to be stuck in. In today’s LOI game, whether it be ODIs or T20s, power is EVERYTHING

this is nothing but a figment of your imagination and your ignorance. timing with proper cricketing shots is important to clearing the boundary consistently . only certain phyisically strong players like hayden and dhoni use power.

Kevin Pietersen, who after the recent T20 WC triumph, almost entirely attributed the success of the England team to the discovery of new players who could now clear the boundary.

who asked you to assume it was "power" that helps players clear boundaries? he didn't say that.

There are very few players in this world (like Rahul Dravid) who can be effective ODI batsmen on the back of their timing/class alone. [/wuote] dravid is at best a good timer . .

And finally, you’re great disservice to Kohli by comparing him to Jadeja. Kohli is a far more accomplished, talent and more importantly, aggressive batsmen.

but he is not old enough and he is not striking the ball well enough.the same problem as jadeja. when bangalore needed 10 runs per over often this IPL, kohli also regualrtly failed in the chases is n't it? how come it escaped your eyes? let me see kohli play a knock with domination and authority. so far its a big ZERO and its not going to come anytime soon .

[Ram]

i have made the same point. however your hasty conclusions about a highly immature 20 yr old who has a long way to go does not hold water. in the years to come' date=' things will change a lot more. [/quote'] You’ve obviously not read what I’ve written. The world cup is not going to happen in the ‘years to come..’. It is less than 10 months away.

playing matches does not make him a 25 yr old. years have to pass. he has to mature as a person. lot of things are involved.

That sounds suspiciously generic, leading me to believe you really don’t know what you’re talking about. Care to be a bit more specific?

this is nothing but a figment of your imagination and your ignorance. timing with proper cricketing shots is important to clearing the boundary consistently . only certain phyisically strong players like hayden and dhoni use power.

I didn’t know most batsmen actually effortlessly time the ball for over the boundary for sixes, but hey, you learn something new everyday. We obviously seem to live in different universes and the cricket that you seem to watch is almost definitely not the one that I watch.

who asked you to assume it was "power" that helps players clear boundaries? he didn't say that.

Oh so it must be food that the English eat, or maybe the new mineral water their team is drinking? Maybe its their new outfit that helps them hit all those sixes, who knows? But hey, this is what KP had to say to in an article rather conspciously titled ‘Pietersen praises England power-hitters’;

"I've played in the team for five or six years and to have a batting line-up like we have now is incredible," Pietersen said. "For every bloke from one down to nine or ten to be able to hit sixes is brilliant. When I started we had [Marcus] Trescothick but didn't have many six-hitters and now most of our guys can hit sixes so it's brilliant for English cricket."

http://www.cricinfo.com/world-twenty20-2010/content/story/458743.html As far as I can tell, I don’t see any mention of mineral water or new English outfit or anything else mentioned as the reason why the English batsmen are hitting so many sixes these days. Maybe you can point it out for me.

but he is not old enough and he is not striking the ball well enough.the same problem as jadeja. when bangalore needed 10 runs per over often this IPL, kohli also regualrtly failed in the chases is n't it? how come it escaped your eyes? let me see kohli play a knock with domination and authority. so far its a big ZERO and its not going to come anytime soon .

It find it rather disturbing and worrying that youconsider Kohli to be in the same league of batsmen as Jadeja. But much like most of what you’ve said in this thread, as long as it works for you I suppose.

[saneindian]

I am no big fan of Jadeja, but some of the posts here sound as if we have had absolutely wonderful no 7s in the past, men who could walk in and hit 6s at will or bowl 7-8 good overs at any point of time. The reason why we are losing most of the games is purely because the batting has been far too inconsistent. When we were winning nearly 75% of the ODIs post the t20 WC 2007 till around the NZ tour in 2009, Sehwag, Gambhir, Yuvraj 3 batsmen in the top 4 were in roaring form and played long innings every 2nd match. Post that tour, these three went off the boil. Sehwag has got 1 100 and no 50s in last 15-16 ODIs, Gambhir before the Asia cup had similar numbers, Yuvraj had 2-3 50s in last 20 innings. Even in the last two t20 WCs, it was batting that let us down. A top team cannot afford to have it leading batsmen faltering far too often. When was the last time we had a 100+ opening partnership in the last 15-20 ODIs, When was the last time we went to the 35th-36th over with just 1-2 wickets gone? Normally we have been 4-5 wickets down by the 35th over, not the ideal scenario for any team. And BTW who are the replacements we have got? Only viable alternative is Irfan Pathan and no on else really. And with Irfan unless he sorts out his bowling, a permanent place as an allrounder will never be there cos after a couple of matches where he fails to complete his quota of 10 overs, he will get bashed by one and all as a "tried and tested failure".

[Desi Cartman]

I think even MSD is telling him to improve his batting else there are others waiting for his spot. Even ashwin can do better than this Jadeja. BTW all people giving excuses that he is only 20yrs old, if he is too young , immature , not ready etc etc then he shouldnt be playing ODI , he should be practicing and playing domestic cricket :mad:

[asterix]

And BTW who are the replacements we have got? Only viable alternative is Irfan Pathan and no on else really. And with Irfan unless he sorts out his bowling, a permanent place as an allrounder will never be there cos after a couple of matches where he fails to complete his quota of 10 overs, he will get bashed by one and all as a "tried and tested failure".

I can understand that it's hard to fnd replacement of top players like Sachin, Viru, UV, Dhoni etc. But it's amazing to even think that there are no replacement of a pathetic player like Jadeja in a country as big as ours. This tendency to continue the status quo and 'chale do' attitude is screwing us in every aspect of our lives. The hopelessness and helplessness, even shown by Dhoni is amazing. For him to say that there are no alternative of that Bhikhari Jadeja is very dissppointing.

[someone]

You all are really bitters, and big time bitters. Still living in past, still mentioning the t20 cup. First, blaming Jadeja for the losses completely is really not true, it has to be collective blame. Next, everyone seems to have blind love for IP. He is the savior and the missing piece of the puzzle according to all of you.c But, he has not really performed well for the last few years.

[Lord]

You all are really bitters, and big time bitters. Still living in past, still mentioning the t20 cup. First, blaming Jadeja for the losses completely is really not true, it has to be collective blame. Next, everyone seems to have blind love for IP. He is the savior and the missing piece of the puzzle according to all of you.c But, he has not really performed well for the last few years.

he last played in intl cricket a year back. n has been doing well in dom. cricket since.so on what basis do u say that?

[someone]

he last played in intl cricket a year back. n has been doing well in dom. cricket since.so on what basis do u say that?

So has Jadeja, he has played well in ODIs over the year. So then why are people so bitter? IP had an opportunity in IPL, he missed that chance to get into the indian frame and now it is up to him to perform. The point is I fail to understand still how do people think IP automatically deserves a place.

[youngindia]

That sounds suspiciously generic, leading me to believe you really don’t know what you’re talking about. Care to be a bit more specific?

that was in response to your point saying "he has played enuf matches". my response is it takes years to mature and more than 5-7 years in many cases to see proper results.

I didn’t know most batsmen actually effortlessly time the ball for over the boundary for sixes, but hey, you learn something new everyday. We obviously seem to live in different universes and the cricket that you seem to watch is almost definitely not the one that I watch.

if you do not know the importance of timing for a batsman, then there is a problem even with your basic understanding its timing allied to biomechanics.how well you strike the ball with proper timing and batspeed. the problem is with your uneducated approach of bringing brute strength into each and everything. that's plain ignorance of sports in general.

Oh so it must be food that the English eat, or maybe the new mineral water their team is drinking? Maybe its their new outfit that helps them hit all those sixes, who knows?.

ask sporting enthusiasts or coaches about how biomechanics works in a sport and educate yourself then. does morgan have a six pack or something?

But hey, this is what KP had to say to in an article rather conspciously titled ‘Pietersen praises England power-hitters’

Its a journalists work. his job is to write articles,not to teach you cricket. if you want to base your understanding of sport on drama created by journos, god help you. pietersen only said they have players who can clear boundaries and nothing more. the right term is "striker of the ball".

It find it rather disturbing and worrying that youconsider Kohli to be in the same league of batsmen as Jadeja. But much like most of what you’ve said in this thread, as long as it works for you I suppose

let me try to put it in the simplest way simple. both of them are neither old or mature enough to dominate a strong international attack. their games are just not mature enough. if jadeja cannot work at 10 rpo. then neither can kohli. when has kohli played a dominating knock where he has stamped his authority? you are arguing against jadeja saying he can't be explosive but for the same reason i am asking when has kohli been explosive? i am pretty clear on what i want. i do not want any batsman at age 22 or under in the indian team. for the reason they are not going to improve in time for the 2011 WC.

[f2000560]

he just cant get quick runs he is a grafter at best ! the second powerplay is wasted when he is around !

[Brainfade]

So has Jadeja, he has played well in ODIs over the year. So then why are people so bitter? IP had an opportunity in IPL, he missed that chance to get into the indian frame and now it is up to him to perform. The point is I fail to understand still how do people think IP automatically deserves a place.

Not automatically. But if he and Jadeja are on par in domestics, he should get the nod based on his past international record. Unless Jadeja comes up with a stellar bowling performance today, he and Rohit Sharma (despite the 70+ in the previous match) should be "rested."

[asterix]

I think there's no point in blaming Jadeja, Dhoni, Shrikkanth & Kirtsten..Jadeja has limited abilities. You can't expect much from him. The little piece of information which I have now has enabled me to resign to the fate..There is no point in getting frustrated and losing your sleep. You can only hope for the best, in this situation. The information is: Jadeja is a strong candidate of Mr. Niranjan Shah, the BCCI bigwig. It's Shah who is ensuring that Jadeja becomes permanent player in the Indian limited overs team. So if you want to take your frustrations out on anybody for the selection of Jadeja, it's Mr. Niranjan Shah..

[maverick.rules]

Srilankan strategy worked. They did not make the same mistake as Pakistan (Ajmal getting jadeja out early). SL missed all chances to get him out and true to his caliber the guy scored less than run a ball in powerplay. the difference between 285 and 268 may come back to bite our backside when SL bat. :(( I have no enimity towards this strong batsman of ours but can we pls get someone else to do the job till jadeja can actually grow a little.

[saneindian]

he just cant get quick runs he is a grafter at best ! the second powerplay is wasted when he is around !

He is not the only reason why PP3 gets wasted. Its getting wasted cos none of our batsmen is playing a long enough knock. We keep losing wickets when batsmen are set, hence cant take the powerplays then and then by the time PP3 is taken in 42nd-43rd over, we are 5-6 wickets down and henc struggle.

[someone]

Not automatically. But if he and Jadeja are on par in domestics, he should get the nod based on his past international record. Unless Jadeja comes up with a stellar bowling performance today, he and Rohit Sharma (despite the 70+ in the previous match) should be "rested."

what are you saying? IP should get in because of his past record, well the same can be applied to Jadeja and clearly Jadeja is the winner. And b4 anyone talks about the t20, please leave it and do not be bitter with a single person for your rest of your life. So unless IP comes up with a stellar performance in the upcoming months, you probably have no right to still have love for IP.

[Manny_Pacquiao]

he batted alright today, tried as hard as he could. you definitely cant fault his effort, always 100%. but his amateurish running b/w the wickets was on display again...i can't stand to see batsmen doing stupid **** like that.

[Ram]

The problem with Jadeja hasn’t been one of under-performance, it has been one of over-expectations. When he first burst on to the scene in the first IPL in 2008, he really clubbed some meaty blows over the boundary on a reasonably consistent basis and everyone was like ‘Oh my God, here’s a big-hitting lower order bat who can also bowl some useful over of left-arm spin..’. The problem was, what most of us didn’t realize then was that the general quality of bowling is significantly lower than the international standard. So, when he came into the team, people really thought he could play. And the Indian team has shown remarkable faith in him as well. I mean, for them to have promoted Jadeja over a then-rampaging Yuvraj in the crucial T20 match against England, they must have really thought this guy had what it takes to score quickly. But that has simply not been the case. It has become bleeding obvious that he does not have the tools or the wherewhithal to be a lower order bat. Make no mistake, he can bat for sure, but that doesn’t mean we thrust him in the all-important no.7 position and hope for miracles, not now, not when the WC is so close. Besides, I simply don’t understand some of the selectorial decisions being made. If there’s one place on the planet where Yusuf can overcome his limitations against the short-ball and be effective on low-bounce wickets, especially in the context of his big hitting abilities against the spinner and batting PPs, it’s the subcontinent. But he repeatedly gets picked for assignements that he’s alien to ( T20 WC 2009 in England, T20 WC 2010 in Windies) and when he fails there, gets dropped for home games in India. We shouldn’t give up on him yet. Unlike Jadeja, the guy has real hitting abilitiy that can prove devastating. Unlike Jadeja, he can win matches for us with the bat. But of course, if we were to play, that would significantly alter the balance of our side, with what Dhoni being so adamant about 3 seamers in an ODI.

[Brainfade]

what are you saying? IP should get in because of his past record, well the same can be applied to Jadeja and clearly Jadeja is the winner. And b4 anyone talks about the t20, please leave it and do not be bitter with a single person for your rest of your life. So unless IP comes up with a stellar performance in the upcoming months, you probably have no right to still have love for IP.

Assume Player A and B have a comparable recent domestic record. (Is this assumption correct? If so, proceed to next sentence. If not, I concede) Assume Player A did not do too well in the IPL, but Player B was banned from the IPL and so did not do anything. Note Player A has a good track record in the international arena (prior to falling to injury and loss of form). Player B has no such track record. Note also that Player A and Player B are about the same age. If it came down to picking one of them, whom would you pick?

[donkey]

Same old crap from Jadeja, wasted the 3rd powerplay and claimed two tailenders. I could imagine the horror if we were batting second and Jadeja was to face the last 5 overs of the inning.