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[Dinx - the Jinx]

what can i say.. the love story between punter and salil continues... its satisfying to see punter lose - no matter who the opponent is...

[Mr. Wicket]

Was this the "famous" Test in Bombay which got over in 2-3 days flat with Rahul Dravid incharge of India? Coz I remember something similar happening then and Ponting asking Rahul to join him and register a protest against the curator.

Yes. Meanwhile, various other commentators tore into the fact that he called for a heavy roller on a pitch that was already cracking and showing some variable bounce. Surprisingly few commented on the fact that Adam Gilchrist captained in three tests that tour, won two and drew one, whereas Ponting embarrassed himself and his team with his leadership and sportsmanship (or lack of, thereof, on both counts) in one. Meanwhile Dinx, keep the comments on topic and spare us the personal jibes.

[Fair Game]

Who really cares when his career is over he will point to being number one in tests for over 10 years. 4 world cups when we win next year, man of the match in the final with 140 odd. I mean there's no one that will compare to his achievements.

[Andy]

Who really cares when his career is over he will point to being number one in tests for over 10 years. 4 world cups when we win next year' date=' man of the match in the final with 140 odd. [b']I mean there's no one that will compare to his achievements.

Joginder Sharma has a WC. Unlike Tendulkar.

[kabira]

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64072.html What about this? Similar circumstances - chose to bat on a greentop with heavy cloud cover. Aus got rolled by Zoysa and Vaas (and Murali mopped up what was left). Kasprowicz and Warne limited the damage in SL's first innings, Gilchrist and Martyn played a couple of masterpieces to build a lead and then Warne won the match in the 4th. Moronic decision saved by a genius and three other excellent/outstanding players. Here, he didn't have those luxuries around him and hence the result was different.

All 3 tests they conceded lead and won the game. That was superb team then.

[Fontaine]

All the tours to Ingerland have been marked by some of the most bass ackwards captaincy decisions I have watched. 2005: Bowling first on a road at Edgbaston when his star fast bowler was injured and the attack was revolving around Warne. 2009: Going into the Oval test with four seamers and Marcus North on a spinning wicket! 2010: Batting first at Leeds under overcast conditions.

You're absolutely right on each count. Ponting is probably the last one to realize that his batting line up can't handle the swing/seam conditions in England.

[saneindian]

The worst decision that he has made is in being stubborn to continue batting at no 3. He needs to accept the reality and swap positions with Mike Hussey.

[Mr. Wicket]

All 3 tests they conceded lead and won the game. That was superb team then.

Indeed. Kabs, did you get to see any of that series? Fantastic, fantastic cricket - Sri Lanka were playing damn well (with Jaya in good form), some of Australia's batsmen really shone and Warne and Murali were tremendous. One of the best series I have watched in terms of pure ability and skill, top quality cricket and some intense contests on both sides.

[THX_1138]

it takes a special kind of incompetence to lose to pakistan. australia have that. its ponting. he is a deadweight who does little to deserve his spot in the team.

[The Outsider]

Who really cares when his career is over he will point to being number one in tests for over 10 years. 4 world cups when we win next year' date=' man of the match in the final with 140 odd. I mean there's no one that will compare to his achievements.[/quote'] How long have Australia remained number 1 after Warne, McGrath, and Gilchrist retired?

[Sooda]

Certainly does little to deserve his spot as captain. Its after that test vs Eng when they bowled first ( at Trent Bridge was it?) without McGrath and conceded 400+ on the first day. That has left Punter scarred for life, so much so that he bats first everytime. Wasnt there a test in Saf where he batted first on a greentop that Hussey said had 'branches growing out of it' and they won that. Think Johnson was on fire with the ball then.

[Guest Hiten.]

Speaking of Ponting's captaincy, what about the blunder of bowling part timers (to up the bowling rate) when India were in dire straits ? Not only that move helped MSD and Bhajji get their eyes in but also allowed them to stitch important 100 or so run partnership, leaving Aussies to chase 380 odd on fifth day :giggle:. IMO, that match was Ricky's best shot to win a test in India and help aussies draw level with India. P.S: Just for the luls, in that game Mishra-ji out of all people ran Punter out.

[The Outsider]

Here is my honest assessment of Ponting as a captain. He is a very good ODI captain for a few reasons : 1. He assigns specific roles to players. In Ponting's captaincy there will always be a predetermined strike bowler, stock bowler, all rounder, finisher etc. That works like a charm in ODIs because of the mechanical nature of the game. Of course, that he has players who can fill those specific roles over a duration of 100 overs helps. 2. His aggressive batting style sets an example. Even if he walks in at 8/1, he will never hesitate to go for that booming drive through extra cover. He might fail, but it sets an example for the remaining batsmen to be attacking and in ODIs conditions invariably ease out after a few overs. 3. He is very good in rotating bowlers when there is a set target as much how much they are allowed to bowl. Some captains tend to under or over bowl their main bowlers at crucial junctures in ODIs. Ponting is a very good reader of the runs per over and wicket importance. Unfortunately, all his plus points become negatives when it comes to test cricket : 1. Playing according to a script often does not work in a game which lasts 5 days and 450 overs. One might have assigned Johnson as the strike bowler of the series, but after a few spells if it's obvious that he is not then he should be relegated to a stock bowler. If Watson is thriving in English conditions, he should not be take off after one bad over just because he is a stock bowler according to the pre match discussions. 2. Aggression in test cricket is very over rated. The Headingly test match got over in less than 3 days, but for time lost and slow over rate. Conditions must be assessed and plans changed on the fly. I find Clarke more adaptable to situations than Ponting and he might just be the change from the over aggressive attitude than Australia are looking for. 3. If the ball is swinging, bring Watson on as your opening bowler, Ricky! If the pitch is turning don't wait till the 20th over before giving your only spinner a proper go (Sydney). He thinks too much about the set patterns and workloads of bowlers in test matches. He would do well to remember the 11 over spell that Ishant bowled at him and was too exhausted to do anything meaningful afterwards. However, that spell took out the most dangerous opposition batsman. Ponting should be willing to extend and cut down spells of his bowlers on what's going on in the field rather than what was discussed in the dressing room.

[The Outsider]

Speaking of Ponting's captaincy, what about the blunder of bowling part timers (to up the bowling rate) when India were in dire straits ? Not only that move helped MSD and Bhajji get their eyes in but also allowed them to stitch important 100 or so run partnership, leaving Aussies to chase 380 odd on fifth day :giggle:. IMO, that match was Ricky's best shot to win a test in India and help aussies draw level with India. P.S: Just for the luls, in that game Mishra-ji out of all people ran Punter out.

Sometime it helps to read the thread before posting!

[EnterTheVoid]

Although I despise him for his bad captaincy decisions this match, there is a hint of pity for him (pity @ batting not at incompetent captaincy, a once great batsman now limping on one leg):

it takes a special kind of incompetence to lose to pakistan. australia have that. its ponting. he is a deadweight who does little to deserve his spot in the team.

Have Australia sunk to such a low that they are outplayed by such a poor, poor side, led by a new captain, have a nonexistent batting tail and packed with amateurs ? Favorable conditions, cloud cover etc etc but being beaten by Pakistan ? :banghead:

[Manny_Pacquiao]

His field placement plus applying pressure is second to none. His tactics alone brought Oz victory countless times.

please show me some examples of his 'tactics alone bringing australia victory'. shouldn't be hard since you remember it happening 'countless' times. i personally, remember more strategic blunders and foolish decisions than the opposite.

[Bradman99]

Although Ponting can be very unsportsman-like I still like him for his never say die attitude and think that he will have a big Ashes series to shut up all the people who think he is in the decline (including myself).

[Guest Hiten.]

Of all the sports, cricket captains have perhaps the most important role in a teams success. Teams alone can never win a match by themselves. Agreed? India always had superstars but Ganguly turned their fortunes around. Or am I wrong ? Ponting is an amazing technician and the most tactically conscious players around. His field placement plus applying pressure is second to none. His tactics alone brought Oz victory countless times. Sure players are important but the art of using them at the right moment is exclusive to a good captain only

Sometime it helps to read the thread before posting!

Topic was diverted from what Thal had intended to discuss. Maybe you should be the one reading :P

[King]

Always been of the opinion, the captain and coach contribution is heavily over-rated. The captain/coach combination contribute not more than about 10% to the overall effort. Ponting has always been over-rated and this has been proved right now.

[DomainK]

Most people who think of Ponting as a very good captain have nothing but the team record to show. Wicky and others have given numerous examples of his stupidities as captain in this thread. Can one of his supporters show some examples of brilliant captaincy? Like Wicky pointed out, in the first part of his career, all he had to do when in trouble was to chose which great bowler or batsman to turn to. In the second part of his career, he makes mistakes and waits for someone to come and clean his mess- sometimes he finds them, most times he does not. The problem is that the number of times he makes such messes is a little too high. He inherited a great team from Waugh and reduced it to a team that has found such lows that they cant win against a spineless team full of noobs and a new captain. That is what he has achieved as a captain.