yoda Posted October 6, 2010 Posted October 6, 2010 Great captaincy is not just measured by wins and losses, if that is case Ricky pointing will be greatest captain of all time. Dhoni some how wins, he is just lucky some say , but he wins, let us see how deals with world cup that will define Dhoni's captaincy. well you are contradicting yourself. first you say captaincy is not measure by just wins and losses and then say a single tournament (world cup) will define his captaincy. :hmmm:
Sir john Posted October 6, 2010 Posted October 6, 2010 dada is great captain than dhoni always. dada teach us how to win test matches :yay:
putrevus Posted October 6, 2010 Posted October 6, 2010 well you are contradicting yourself. first you say captaincy is not measure by just wins and losses and then say a single tournament (world cup) will define his captaincy. :hmmm: Because it is India we are talking about if he fails miserably as Dravid did in 2007, I dont think he will be the captain anymore. That is why I said it will define his captaincy, he will be the captain till then for sure after that what happens will define his captaincy , if he succeeds he will end up as greatest Indian captain ever, since he will win more than Ganguly in tests and also odis.
IT_Anxiety_NJIT Posted October 6, 2010 Posted October 6, 2010 Ganguly was better than Dhoni and changed the psychy of Indian team. Dhoni test will come after the retirement of Fab 4.
putrevus Posted October 6, 2010 Posted October 6, 2010 The one thing I have against Ganguly is he was too superstitious, in 2003 world cup just because India kept winning games, he kept same side without giving kumble a chance to prove himself even in games which India didn't have to win. Kumble should have played finals there but for Ganguly's stupid reasoning he did not play and that cost Sachin a World cup he deserves, he carried that team on his back to finals only to find bowlers getting scared by Hayden and Gilly. Dhoni is following Ganguly in one aspect playing as non performing captain which Ganguly became later in his stint but Dhoni has reached that already.
Andy Posted October 6, 2010 Posted October 6, 2010 The one thing I have against Ganguly is he was too superstitious' date= in 2003 world cup just because India kept winning games, he kept same side without giving kumble a chance to prove himself even in games which India didn't have to win. Kumble should have played finals there but for Ganguly's stupid reasoning he did not play and that cost Sachin a World cup he deserves, he carried that team on his back to finals only to find bowlers getting scared by Hayden and Gilly. Dhoni is following Ganguly in one aspect playing as non performing captain which Ganguly became later in his stint but Dhoni has reached that already. Well Every Captain have good and Bad things. But its the fact when Bad things out numbers his good things hurt the team most. It wasnt in Gangulys case. Though i agree he was superstitous. But If you ask me, i would not have changed that Bowling line up at all, it was doing great.
Jersey #10 Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 Dhoni isn't going anywhere for next few years. He is arguably the best sipper India has ever had + he is probably the best keeper in India atm. Karthik plain sucks behind the wicket if anyone is thinking about him as a replacement. He is definitely a good batsman hence the average. I can't think of a replacement for Dhoni. Is there anyone who is has the following combination? Great skipper + good keeper + a match winning batsman who can switch gears as needed?
ZodiaC Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 Dhoni isn't going anywhere for next few years. He is arguably the best sipper India has ever had + he is probably the best keeper in India atm. Karthik plain sucks behind the wicket if anyone is thinking about him as a replacement. He is definitely a good batsman hence the average. I can't think of a replacement for Dhoni. Is there anyone who is has the following combination? Great skipper + good keeper + a match winning batsman who can switch gears as needed? I don't think he's the greatest ever captain, but he's the only reliable wicket keeper batsman, let alone captaincy. Dropping is not even the remotest of possibilities unless he stoop to akmalesque proportions, which I don't see happening. BTW DK sucks behind wickets? :hmmm:
Jersey #10 Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 I don't think he's the greatest ever captain, but he's the only reliable wicket keeper batsman, let alone captaincy. Dropping is not even the remotest of possibilities unless he stoop to akmalesque proportions, which I don't see happening. BTW DK sucks behind wickets? :hmmm: I would personally prefer dhoni behind the stumps over DK but that's just me. I have always ranked Dhoni in the average category compared to the other keepers in the world. I don't even rank DK as I haven't seen enough of his work behind the stumps. Dhoni is really satisfactory and someone you can rely on.
ravishingravi Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 Dhoni isn't going anywhere for next few years. He is arguably the best sipper India has ever had + he is probably the best keeper in India atm. Karthik plain sucks behind the wicket if anyone is thinking about him as a replacement. He is definitely a good batsman hence the average. I can't think of a replacement for Dhoni. Is there anyone who is has the following combination? Great skipper + good keeper + a match winning batsman who can switch gears as needed? He became captain at the right time for India. This is the bet team he will ever have. Tactically he seems defensive and dumbfounded at times. His batting and keeping ha regressed. I always question his priorities outside of playing for India But for lack of better choice he will remain unchallenged.
Jersey #10 Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 He became captain at the right time for India. This is the bet team he will ever have. Tactically he seems defensive and dumbfounded at times. His batting and keeping ha regressed. I always question his priorities outside of playing for India But for lack of better choice he will remain unchallenged. On that note, point out a few things you feel that he was wrong at. Can you pin point an inning where he didn't use enough brains or didn't try his hardest to make things neater for India? His run out yesterday was unfortunate. He sacrificed his own wicket for that of Laxman and I feel that it takes a lot of guts to sacrifice your wicket even at the gully level of cricket so doing it in International cricket is very courageous. This also shows his state of mind and proves that he can do what is the best for the team and make those changes within seconds. He had a few bad games with the bat but common, that doesn't mean much. The greatest of the players in the cricket world have had a few bad games. To maintain an average of 50 and still make sure that team India is at the top is commendable at least in my books. I can't speak for everyone but I think he is one of the greatest from India if not the best. One more thing to add, similar to Sachin but on a much smaller scale the fans expect dhoni to prove him self and the hype of his average each and every game. Fans of Sachin expect him to make a 100 and never get out each and every game and in the same fashion the expectations from captain cool have gone higher and higher with every game. Having seen dhoni pull off some very good wins for India, I expect him to bring him self up with a bang. His batting style is a bit unorthodox and uneasy to eyes but he has proven him self over and over again. His style of play does work and we all know it. Give the captain cool some time.
ravishingravi Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 On that note, point out a few things you feel that he was wrong at. Can you pin point an inning where he didn't use enough brains or didn't try his hardest to make things neater for India? His run out yesterday was unfortunate. He sacrificed his own wicket for that of Laxman and I feel that it takes a lot of guts to sacrifice your wicket even at the gully level of cricket so doing it in International cricket is very courageous. This also shows his state of mind and proves that he can do what is the best for the team and make those changes within seconds. He had a few bad games with the bat but common, that doesn't mean much. The greatest of the players in the cricket world have had a few bad games. To maintain an average of 50 and still make sure that team India is at the top is commendable at least in my books. I can't speak for everyone but I think he is one of the greatest from India if not the best. One more thing to add, similar to Sachin but on a much smaller scale the fans expect dhoni to prove him self and the hype of his average each and every game. Fans of Sachin expect him to make a 100 and never get out each and every game and in the same fashion the expectations from captain cool have gone higher and higher with every game. Having seen dhoni pull off some very good wins for India, I expect him to bring him self up with a bang. His batting style is a bit unorthodox and uneasy to eyes but he has proven him self over and over again. His style of play does work and we all know it. Give the captain cool some time. This test match was actually better than what he usually does. Purely in terms of captaincy, there were a few bowling changes and field positions which he got right, so credit to him. But overall, having seen him over last two years, he has not read the game as well as I would like. He has been overly defensive esp. in ODIs even instances in this test. I won't talk about average since he has to play test cricket in different conditions and to be honest he was found out in Australia. This SA series will be the test. I am giving him time. He has done a decent job, not as great as some make it out. I am more than happy if he proves me wrong.
Jersey #10 Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 This test match was actually better than what he usually does. Purely in terms of captaincy, there were a few bowling changes and field positions which he got right, so credit to him. But overall, having seen him over last two years, he has not read the game as well as I would like. He has been overly defensive esp. in ODIs even instances in this test. I won't talk about average since he has to play test cricket in different conditions and to be honest he was found out in Australia. This SA series will be the test. I am giving him time. He has done a decent job, not as great as some make it out. I am more than happy if he proves me wrong. Most of the people swing with the game results. A captain is good when the team wins a game and a captain is bad when the team loses the next game. Sachin is good if he scores 100 and he is bad if he doesn't. Sachin is not good if he scores 100 and India loses but if Afridi scores a 100 and Pakistan loses, Afridi is still the world's best. I will never understand this concept. How can the minds change with every game? Ganguly also had some bad tournaments but he is considered in the top three of the best skippers India has ever had. I think the fact that you expect something from a player itself makes that player great. This only means that you have faith in that person and you want that person to continue with the good work. Expectations for players like Rohit Sharma, Karthik etc., are not as big as the expectations from players like Sehwag, Dhoni, Sachin etc. Such high expectations only prove that the particular player has high standard. For me, the likes of Sachin, Dhoni, Sehwag, Zak and Dravid define the word cricket in India. They are like the pillars of Indian cricket. I don't see anyone else taking their place at the moment. There are no possible permanent replacements for these guys at this point of time. There must be a reason why Dhoni is being named the "Leader" of the world XI by the ICC over and over again. This guy has to be good if he is in the top 11 of the ICC squad for both ODIs and Tests. There are so many other good skippers but the only one to stand out for the ICC's panel is Dhoni for both formats of the game. I am sure this tell us something.
ZodiaC Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 He had a few bad games with the bat but common, that doesn't mean much. The greatest of the players in the cricket world have had a few bad games. To maintain an average of 50 and still make sure that team India is at the top is commendable at least in my books. I can't speak for everyone but I think he is one of the greatest from India if not the best. Sorry greatest? Not underplaying his efforts he's probably the best wicketkeeper batsman of all time for us. But that doesn't mean he's one of the greatest ever player for us. About his average, take those 37 whooping not outs off and you're left with an average of around 37. Just saying that the averages can be misleading often at times.
ZodiaC Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 Most of the people swing with the game results. A captain is good when the team wins a game and a captain is bad when the team loses the next game. Sachin is good if he scores 100 and he is bad if he doesn't. Sachin is not good if he scores 100 and India loses but if Afridi scores a 100 and Pakistan loses, Afridi is still the world's best. I will never understand this concept. How can the minds change with every game? I for one, has always maintained that Dhoni is no way a 'great' captain, irrespective of wins and loses. Its like saying :punter: is the greatest ever Oz skipper just looking at the stats, but we all know he obviouly isn't. And what makes you think that OP falls in the category you mentioned above? And how does that analogy even fit here as Dhoni hasn't lost any test series yet?
Jersey #10 Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 Sorry greatest? Not underplaying his efforts he's probably the best wicketkeeper batsman of all time for us. But that doesn't mean he's one of the greatest ever player for us. About his average, take those 37 whooping not outs off and you're left with an average of around 37. Just saying that the averages can be misleading often at times. Dhoni has a very bad average and he is a bad skipper is what you are saying. Bottom line is that, Dhoni sucks right? Well ok, he does! Happy? You win. :omg: you win On a serious note, "take out the not outs"? seriously? so now you want to bend the ways of calculating the averages in cricket to prove your point? Take out the not outs of Sachin, Lara and Ponting and you will be able to prove that all three are bad players. Good luck with that!
Jersey #10 Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 I for one' date= has always maintained that Dhoni is no way a 'great' captain, irrespective of wins and loses. Its like saying :punter: is the greatest ever Oz skipper just looking at the stats, but we all know he obviouly isn't. And what makes you think that OP falls in the category you mentioned above? And how does that analogy even fit here as Dhoni hasn't lost any test series yet? At bold - great to know what you think...I don't agree with it though as don't have to! If you can bring in some facts about Ponting which proves that he is not the best captain of OZ so far, I will believe you. From where I stand, all I can think of is three WC wins and many other achievements. I don't see anything wrong with Ponting's approach although I do feel that he has been a little sketchy for the past one year or so as he battles with a few injuries.
ZodiaC Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 Dhoni has a very bad average and he is a bad skipper is what you are saying. Bottom line is that, Dhoni sucks right? Well ok, he does! Happy? You win. :omg: you win On a serious note, "take out the not outs"? seriously? so now you want to bend the ways of calculating the averages in cricket to prove your point? Take out the not outs of Sachin, Lara and Ponting and you will be able to prove that all three are bad players. Good luck with that! What are you, captain hyperbole? Either he gotta be a legend or he plain sucks innit? There's nothing in between. I agree. I'm talking about ODIs alone. Sachin, Lara, Punters etc have proved themselves in test level. While Dhoni has a great looking number in ODIs and barely an average of 40 in tests. Rings a bell? And just to add, Ponting has 37, lara has 32 and goddy has 41 not outs overall in their careers. Dhoni already has 37 :winky: Dhoni comes at the lower order, so he's bound to get more not outs. He's played quite a few fine innings too. But nothing great enough to be called greatest ever.
Andy Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 Lol @ People who thinks Dhobi is the greatest Captain. First let him do what many previous captains couldnt That is beat or draw against the Worlds best Team away from home and Reach the Finals of a WC or win it. If he can manage to do that, surely he will be our greatest, then i wont even take into consideration the fact that he had the best ever Indian team to play with. At this momment by no means he is the greatest.
ZodiaC Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 At bold - great to know what you think...I don't agree with it though as don't have to! If you can bring in some facts about Ponting which proves that he is not the best captain of OZ so far, I will believe you. From where I stand, all I can think of is three WC wins and many other achievements. I don't see anything wrong with Ponting's approach although I do feel that he has been a little sketchy for the past one year or so as he battles with a few injuries. Yeah 3 world cups in a row = Best captian eva, I agree. Lets brush the facts that he's YET to win a test in India (:giggle:) Losing Ashes in England 2 times in 5 years etc under the carpet. In fact I can't see what he has achieved bar the win in SA in all his career :giggle: Less said about his tactical brain farts, the better :giggle:
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