Is Tendulkar the second best batsman of all time?

[patriot]

As I said' date=' you don't know your cricket. All you are good at is running some random stats guru queries, coming up with a result which 'supports' your whims and posting it here.[/quote'] Which basically means that I understand the game better than you. What you call my " whim " actually comes out of following test cricket in general team India in particular very closely. My " whim " was bang on target. You said 4th innings in India is far more difficult than Aus. Facts support my " whim" and say that you are totally wrong and that they are even. Please wipe that yolk off your left eye. :cantstop:

[gaurav92]

yeah, but everyone knows that true criteria for greatness is measured by the number of runs u score in the 3rd innings of a match on friday against bowler xxx and xyz when the target is between 298 and 69893, when the ball is doing spin, inverse swing, reverse swing and gay swing, when the fielders are jumping around at silly mid off and deep midwicket, when the wind is blowing from the northwest and when winning is everything cos cricket is an individual sport and when the team is 10 wickets down. this is why azhar mahmood can be regarded as one fo the greatest of all time, and tendulkar is an overrated haraamkhor who plays cricket to make money and is trying to stretch his career as long as possible.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

[gaurav92]

Bumper, Very well said. I agree with most of what you mention. He has had an absolute dream 2-3 years which have helped team India a great deal. His commitment to the team cause and hunger to keep piling on the runs was never in doubt. But, I think he gets alot more credit than he deserves where as other silent performers just keep doing their job. Who would disagree with me that VVS's knock of 72 in Mohali was as much or more precious than Tendulkar's 200 in Bangalore ? Or that Zakky's 12 wickets was the MVP of the series ? But SRT's performance will get most of the credit. I bet you had SRT played the knock VVS played in Mohali - we would not hear the end of it for god knows how many years. Australia was a well and truely demoralized bunch after that Mohali game - which was a victory from an absolute lost cause for India in the 4th innings. For someone who has played a record 171 games - I wish SRT could for once rescue us from dire straits to a victory. His collegues in Team India itself have done it multilple times, let alone greats from other teams. Such a knock would define his legacy. He always seems to need copious amounts of help from the other end else he throws it away under pressure - I have seen it countless times. For once I would like to see him win India a game with little or no support from the top order. He has had lots of chances, thats for sure.

patriot not denying that VVS is a class player, but he could do that because of SRT's 98 in the first innings, that minimized the Aussies lead.Without that, we could have easily given away a 100 run lead and put ourselves in trouble on the final day and lost miserably. talking about VVS's 72, it was mainly because of Aussie bowling a bowler short in the form of Bollinger, and VVS had a runner in the form of raina (who ran very quickly), had it not been for Raina, i am sure VVS wouldn't have converted those singles into twos and the pressure would have been on us.The fact that you deny SRT's great performances against weak bowling attacks and highlight when he fails against the same bowling attack, makes you a Vicious Bigot who come here just to troll around.You points have no Logic(P>S : May be Lahori Logic), your posts(which you call insightful) have no substance and last but not the least, no one's gives a **** at what is your opinion, coz the parameters of judgement keep changing to suit your needs. You are such a loser patriot, i pity you, that you have achieved nothing in your life, and is kicked on your balls every single time you post something crappy(in fact your posts are always crappy).Why don't you learn a lesson and make your life a lil meaningful and stop this bloody shyt here itself ? i am sure, that a n00b like you, will come back ,and wallop like a wild rhino again and again.

[EnterTheVoid]

patriot not denying that VVS is a class player, but he could do that because of SRT's 98 in the first innings, that minimized the Aussies lead.Without that, we could have easily given away a 100 run lead and put ourselves in trouble on the final day and lost miserably. talking about VVS's 72, it was mainly because of Aussie bowling a bowler short in the form of Bollinger, and VVS had a runner in the form of raina (who ran very quickly), had it not been for Raina, i am sure VVS wouldn't have converted those singles into twos and the pressure would have been on us.The fact that you deny SRT's great performances against weak bowling attacks and highlight when he fails against the same bowling attack, makes you a Vicious Bigot who come here just to troll around.You points have no Logic(P>S : May be Lahori Logic), your posts(which you call insightful) have no substance and last but not the least, no one's gives a **** at what is your opinion, coz the parameters of judgement keep changing to suit your needs. You are such a loser patriot, i pity you, that you have achieved nothing in your life, and is kicked on your balls every single time you post something crappy(in fact your posts are always crappy).Why don't you learn a lesson and make your life a lil meaningful and stop this bloody shyt here itself ? i am sure, that a n00b like you, will come back ,and wallop like a wild rhino again and again.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: ... Hilarious coming from G92.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[gaurav92]

Sree i just can't think of anything as retard as this.Even Shahid Afridi's posts aren't that retarded, and patriot is the king of Double Standards, he uses the stats and the facts which suits his statement and deny the others from doing the same.He is such a nincompoop who would come up dishing shyt and expect everyone to praise his brilliance which actually is nothing but self pwnage.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[gaurav92]

hehe ... How many deliveries do you think your other hero took to compile his 233 at Adelaide ? This pretty much tells me all about your opinions on SRT ... you have very unrealistic expectations from him .... You want him to be a Sehwag + RD + VVS all bundled into one and you want him to pretty much perform allmost all the time.

Exactly. :giggle:

[Sachinism]

Dude you do realise that just because his average dips when McGrath is in the team, doesnt necessarily mean that his low average is only because of McGrath. What if Warne or one of the other had bowled a couple of magic balls to him, or what if he had got a couple of poor descisions from the umpires? A 9 match sample is small enough for these things to make a difference For example, SRTs average is very low when playing against Wasim and Waqar. Does that mean they troubled him a lot? They were able to get him out only once each in all the innings he played. Nor did he get out because of pressure applied by them. More often than not, he got out to an agressive shot

I'm pretty sure someone did a check on balls faced and all that and patriot was pwned

Thats not true. I have watched each and every contest between SRT and Mcgrath in tests. He undoubtedly goes into an absolute shell when Mcgrath is bowling and looks to score of others. Mcgrath has dominated him. I challenge Bossbhai to bring up honest ball to ball records for Mcgrath Vs SRT. Honest being the key word here. How many test samples to you need against a single bowler ? 19 ? Fact : Mcgrath has dominated SRT even in India.

Lack of cricket knowledge again *yawn*

[The Outsider]

Which basically means that I understand the game better than you. What you call my " whim " actually comes out of following test cricket in general team India in particular very closely. My " whim " was bang on target. You said 4th innings in India is far more difficult than Aus. Facts support my " whim" and say that you are totally wrong and that they are even. Please wipe that yolk off your left eye. :cantstop:

I suppose the fact that the best batting line up in the world bats in half the innings in India, and the best bowling line up in the world bowls in half the innings in Australia has nothing to do with those averages?

[maniac]

I am not sure why we keep bringing up Bradman when neither most of us on this forum have seen Bradman play... The closest thing I havee seen to Bradman play is te Bodyline TV show on Doordarshan..I watched Richards play when he was at the twilight of his career. I don't see why most of us who are clearly atleast below say 40 keep brining up all these stat to disprove Sachin.He is the greatest batsman ever...Case closed

[patriot]

hehe ... How many deliveries do you think your other hero took to compile his 233 at Adelaide ?

Huh ? You are comparing a 2nd innings chase of 550+ at 70/3 with batting first on a Sydney feather bed ? See Boss - you will never get away with such " clever " arguments. I have watched our team as closely as anyone on planet earth. RSD stuck it up in the 4th innings as well...to complete India's first test victory on Aus soil in 20 years !!

This pretty much tells me all about your opinions on SRT ... you have very unrealistic expectations from him .... You want him to be a Sehwag + RD + VVS all bundled into one and you want him to pretty much perform allmost all the time.

LOL...he cannot be a destroyer like Veeru in a million years. Veeru's talent is on a different plane. I hope and wish he learns from VVS' nerves of steel under nerve wracking pressure and ability to fight till the end and close out matches from impossible situations.

[patriot]

I suppose the fact that the best batting line up in the world bats in half the innings in India' date=' and the best bowling line up in the world bowls in half the innings in Australia has nothing to do with those averages?[/quote'] LOL >Are these two the only teams competing in their respective countries ? You learnt something new and were able to clear a figment of your imagination ( that batting in India in the 4th innings is always a tougher task than doing the same in Aus ). Well done, Prof.

[CSK Fan]

LOL >Are these two the only teams competing in their respective countries ? You learnt something new and were able to clear a figment of your imagination ( that batting in India in the 4th innings is always a tougher task than doing the same in Aus ). Well done, Prof.

Of course they will ALWAYS be ONE of the team playing!

[CSK Fan]

Huh ? You are comparing a 2nd innings chase of 550+ at 70/3 with batting first on a Sydney feather bed ? See Boss - you will never get away with such " clever " arguments. I have watched our team as closely as anyone on planet earth. RSD stuck it up in the 4th innings as well...to complete India's first test victory on Aus soil in 20 years !! LOL...he cannot be a destroyer like Veeru in a million years. Veeru's talent is on a different plane. I hope and wish he learns from VVS' nerves of steel under nerve wracking pressure and ability to fight till the end and close out matches from impossible situations.

But why? Why do you want him to improve his strike rate? We have Veru for it. Why do you want him to be like VVS? We already have a finisher in Laxman! Its because of Sachin why we have not been in impossible situations many times lately! His knock in the last game prevented it from being a bad situation for India. For a no1 team being in impossible situations should be the exceptions not the norm for which you prepare players. Yes, they provide great entertainment value but only team with great weaknesses, like Pakistan, will find themselves in many impossible situtaions time after time. I will use a racehorse example again. Which horse will you consider better and punt on. the one which wins race clinically and consitantly or the one who occasionaly, after lagging behind in the first few laps, wins from an impossible situation?

[patriot]

Of course they will ALWAYS be ONE of the team playing!

It is still a nonsensical argument because 4th innings on Indian pitches in the last 15 years with Kumble et al the attack is only comparable and not necessarily better than the best bowling line up in the world ( Aus ) bowling 4th innings on Australian pitches. It also takes credit away from the fact that Aus batting line up on an average in the last 15 years batting in Australia was better than the Indian batting line up in the last 15 years batting in INdian conditions. 4th innings and otherwise.

[patriot]

But why? Why do you want him to improve his strike rate? We have Veru for it. Why do you want him to be like VVS? We already have a finisher in Laxman! Its because of Sachin why we have not been in impossible situations many times lately! His knock in the last game prevented it from being a bad situation for India. For a no1 team being in impossible situations should be the exceptions not the norm for which you prepare players. Yes, they provide great entertainment value but only team with great weaknesses, like Pakistan, will find themselves in many impossible situtaions time after time. I will use a racehorse example again. Which horse will you consider better and punt on. the one which wins race clinically and consitantly or the one who occasionaly, after lagging behind in the first few laps, wins from an impossible situation?

MTC, I agree with you 100 % on the bold part. I have never denied how SRT's amazing new found consistency has allowed India to ascend to the No.1 But for such a great player not to have finished a match from dire straits from the record chances he has got is what irks me the most.

[CSK Fan]

It is still a nonsensical argument because 4th innings on Indian pitches in the last 15 years with Kumble et al the attack is only comparable and not necessarily better than the best bowling line up in the world ( Aus ) bowling 4th innings on Australian pitches. It also takes credit away from the fact that Aus batting line up on an average in the last 15 years batting in Australia was better than the Indian batting line up in the last 15 years batting in INdian conditions. 4th innings and otherwise.

Maybe you do have a point here. But I would also like to see a comparison of Indian pitches in the 90s with this decade. I am sure they will be a huge difference

[CSK Fan]

MTC, I agree with you 100 % on the bold part. I have never denied how SRT's amazing new found consistency has allowed India to ascend to the No.1 But for such a great player not to have finished a match from dire straits from the recordhe has got is what irks me the most.

Depends on how many chances he got,which you classify as dire straits, right? As Boss Bhai pointed out, most of the times when he is in, it will not be called a dire strait. Even the Chennai test we lost to Pakistan, if Sachin had stayed we would have won comfortably, just like the Chennai chase against england or in the last test. Then you wouldn't have called the situation a 'dire strait' and it wouldn't have still counted in favor of Sachin Also, isnt the whole thread about Sachin being no2 after Bradman? So if you admit his consistancy(consistancy and not perfection in every dept), would you also admit that the OP is right?

[Raghav_12]

Depends on how many chances he got' date='which you classify as dire straits, right? As Boss Bhai pointed out, most of the times when he is in, it will not be called a dire strait. Even the Chennai test we lost to Pakistan, if Sachin had stayed we would have won comfortably, just like the Chennai chase against england or in the last test. Then you wouldn't have called the situation a 'dire strait' and it wouldn't have still counted in favor of Sachin[/quote'] Yeah.. this is the whole point.

Also' date=' isnt the whole thread about Sachin being no2 after Bradman? So if you admit his consistancy(consistancy and not perfection in every dept), would you also admit that the OP is right?[/quote'] He himself doesn't know what he is arguing for:haha: