Greatest Test Cricketer Ever

[putrevus]

You seem to have been following cricket since the dark ages. An honest question, why do you think Imran never scared you? He has a respectable bowling average of 24.04 against India with 94 wickets. Weren't we speaking of Test cricket?

Remove one series with 40 wickets in six tests in one series in 1982 , Indians never had anything major to worry about Imran , He got spanked in India both in 78 series and 87 series he was nothing and in pakistan 78 series he was not big factor, 89 series again he was non factor. So as a bowler Imran never had great success against Indians So why was great Imran great in just one series that too in Pakistan???

[Lurker]

However, the threat aspect that you speak about, in my opinion, need not at all be a measure of how great (or otherwise) the cricketer was. Richard Hadlee would hardly strike fear in you! But there he was - picking wickets pell mell! So did Walsh. Who in the world would rank Walsh as the world's best bowler? Yet he was there at the very top for a significant time.

Hadlee did frighten me. He was taking wickets everywhere, including India. I wouldnt be surprised if he has the best returns on Indian wickets for a pace bowler. Still remember him making folks like Manjrekar and Vengsakar look absolutely no-good on Indian turf. Walsh was not as frightening, you are right about that. Partially because of his happy-go-lucky persona(remember the 1987 WC where he didnt run out Tauseef I beleive and effectively lost West Indies the match), but also because he had Ambrose at the other end who was frightening for sure. This is to take nothing away from Walsh who was an awesome.

Imran at his best as a bowler was much faster and craftier than Kapil Dev. If you forget Wasim Akram and compare Imran's threat as a bowler with Kapil Dev, then I think its an easy decision in favour of the Pathan.

I dont think it is as easy as you are making out. Faster yes, craftier? We can debate that. Imran had a better inswinger, or his bread and butter indipper, Kapil's outswinger was probably the best of his time and one of the best of all times I dare say. Imran does beat Kapil on reverse swing but that is a dicey discussion in itself. Kapil was the workhorse, kinda like Walsh, who had to keep leading his bowling side almost the entirety of his career, his best partners were Prabhakar, Ghavree and Chetan Sharma..none of which can come close to say an Akram or even a Sarfaraz.

As far as batting is concerned, Imran was definitely not the more talented. But then talent and results have not always been best friends. He just did the best he could and the results do speak of this - after a fashion. He definitely is not a batsman who deserves a 50+ average (just going by your post) but he was definitely far more dependable as a batsman than Kapil Dev or Botham.

Again, dependablity is questionable. Dependable how? To win a game? If so that probably never happened. Dependable to save a game, or stablize Pakistan. Yes I can see that happening but is it the same thing? You can pick Botham and his onslaughts with eyes closed. Same with Kapil. Imran's supporters would have to dig out a painstaking 80 here, a 76 there. I am not a big fan of a list like Wisden's 100 etc but if you would take a peak at the list you would see Kapil having entries in both LOI and Test cricket's greatest innings, not sure Imran has any entry in either. xxx

[Raghav_12]

Well if you give that answer' date=' I will fire it too.[/quote'] :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

[putrevus]

Hadlee did frighten me. He was taking wickets everywhere, including India. I wouldnt be surprised if he has the best returns on Indian wickets for a pace bowler. Still remember him making folks like Manjrekar and Vengsakar look absolutely no-good on Indian turf. Walsh was not as frightening, you are right about that. Partially because of his happy-go-lucky persona(remember the 1987 WC where he didnt run out Tauseef I beleive and effectively lost West Indies the match), but also because he had Ambrose at the other end who was frightening for sure. This is to take nothing away from Walsh who was an awesome. I dont think it is as easy as you are making out. Faster yes, craftier? We can debate that. Imran had a better inswinger, or his bread and butter indipper, Kapil's outswinger was probably the best of his time and one of the best of all times I dare say. Imran does beat Kapil on reverse swing but that is a dicey discussion in itself. Kapil was the workhorse, kinda like Walsh, who had to keep leading his bowling side almost the entirety of his career, his best partners were Prabhakar, Ghavree and Chetan Sharma..none of which can come close to say an Akram or even a Sarfaraz. Again, dependablity is questionable. Dependable how? To win a game? If so that probably never happened. Dependable to save a game, or stablize Pakistan. Yes I can see that happening but is it the same thing? You can pick Botham and his onslaughts with eyes closed. Same with Kapil. Imran's supporters would have to dig out a painstaking 80 here, a 76 there. I am not a big fan of a list like Wisden's 100 etc but if you would take a peak at the list you would see Kapil having entries in both LOI and Test cricket's greatest innings, not sure Imran has any entry in either. xxx

Spot on great post one thing which held Kapil dev back was reverse swing he never had it in his arsenal but that was trade secret which Pakistan bowlers held how they achieved it is again up to debate.

[Raghav_12]

The most fascinating thing about that comment of yours, and others who have similar sentiment, is that when Imran was playing there was not a remote mention of how he was the greatest cricketer of his time, let alone of all times! That tag went to King Richards and then there used to be open debate on Sunny, 4 all-rounders, Chappell, Windies pacers, Miandad, Border etc etc. Funny how after 20 years of retirement people suddenly elevated Imran to a position he never occupied even at his peak! xxx

Excellent Point. That's what statistics can do. When I looked at his stats first time, I also thought him to be greatest allrounder of all time. It's only closer analysis of his numbers made me realize that he might not be that great. 20 years down the people will talk that there was an Indian batsman by the name of Vinod kambli, who played in mid 90's, in era of Wasim, Waqar, Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, McGrath, Donald Warne and Murali and still averaged around 55. He must surely be as good as Gavaskars or Boeders if not more. That's what stats can do :-).

[Deleted_User_1]

Dodda Ganesh and Bharat Arun - two greatest cricketers EVA!!!

[Sachin=GOD]

I know I know the Aussies will say Don, the Indians will say Sachin. However, given the following criteria who do you think is the greatest test cricketer ever. Ask yourself, if you had to show to a kid one player and by showing that player you convey to the kid what the game Cricket is all about...whom would you choose? My logic is as follows - that Cricketer must be good at all the disciplines of the game - batting, bowling, fielding, and that extremely unique discipline which no other team sport seems to have, Captaincy. Until about 3-4 yrs back I had Sobers as the greatest Test cricketer ever. But recognizing that Captaincy is a vital skill in the game of cricket I think Imran Khan Niazi is the greatest cricketer Test cricket gave to us. And this coming from a guy whose childhood hero was Kapil Dev (the Niazi was competition to Kapil and I used to always view him with a sense of grrrrr...lol). Imran Khan has to be the greatest, if you point a gun at my head and ask me to pick one. Following him very closely would be Sobers for me. Let the fights begin...

I'd say it would be a very tough contest between His Excellency Sir Ajit Agarkar, Kamran "drop a catch@important match" Akmal and Xavier Doherty.

Well if you give that answer' date=' I will fire it too.[/quote'] :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

[Nirvanam]

Excellent Point. That's what statistics can do. When I looked at his stats first time, I also thought him to be greatest allrounder of all time. It's only closer analysis of his numbers made me realize that he might not be that great. 20 years down the people will talk that there was an Indian batsman by the name of Vinod kambli, who played in mid 90's, in era of Wasim, Waqar, Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, McGrath, Donald Warne and Murali and still averaged around 55. He must surely be as good as Gavaskars or Boeders if not more. That's what stats can do :-).

You are treading on thin ice there dude! Stats is everything...dunn matter if you play against papua new guinea or england in 1930 but stats are the only thing that matters!

[Bublu Bhuyan]

[dhillon28]

Imran is an overrated cricketer. Kapil is a better package if bowling, batting and fielding are all considered. Besides was Imran not a statue standing in mid-off. Anyway the cricketer I would like to choose ahead of anyone as the best cricketer is Sobers anywhich way one looks at it.

kapil vs imran bowling- imran easily better as he was faster, could move the ball both ways and reverse it whereas kapil bowled predominantly outswingers batting- kapil had way more talent but he always played like a Jatt and never valued his wicket and always went for the big shots. imran valued his wicket (he didnt play like a Pathan) and always tried to play technically correct so on performance imran wins again. (he averaged above 50 in batting during his last ten years as a player) fielding- kapils probs one of the greatest fielders of all time and one of the best natural athletes to ever play the game captaincy- in odis id say kapil was better as he won the world cup with india when asia was not seen as a cricket powerhouse and we had a good odi team for many years after on balance id say imran was better than kapil- because in the last ten years of his career his batting average was above 50 and bowling average below 20- simply phenomenal

[thongale]

Possibly. It could also be that with passage of time one stops judging players by their performance, forgets their memorable matches and ends up resorting to statistics to judge. I am not saying that you do but in case of Imran this is where he scores, his stats are fantastic even though his performance was hardly that. One of the ways of judging a cricketer, as a fan, is the kind of fear/awe he strikes in you when he plays against your country. Richards would scare me, Marshall would do that too, Miandad would annoy me, Imran??? Never did anything for me :winky: Cant remember him coming on to bowl and getting afraid(that includes watching 6/14 at Sharjah..did not see the Indian series in Pakistan), Akram would do that as would Shoaib Akhtar at his peak. Mcgrath did. Imran never did. As for batting the less said the better. The man played 20 years, scored at supposedly 50 and yet his best innings is 72 in 1992 WC finals(which in my opinion was hardly a superb innings in the first place). xxx

How about his **** whipping of Indians in early 80s, both with bat and the ball? Saying Imran did not scare you shows that you view is skewed. From 80 - 89 Imran was the best fast bowler in the world. Yes, best fast bowler statistically. Marshall took his wickets around 19 IIRC, and Imran took it around 18. In that period scored heavily too, averaging close to 40. The Greatest cricketer in my eyes is Sobers, followed up with Imran, followed up with Sobers and the Don, and then any one of Kallis, Murali or Tendulkar

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[akshayxyz]

Baaasu has left Sobers behind IMO ...The great man has almost the same record as Sobers in JUST away matches and dont forget the 198 intl wickets plus 200+ intl catches. By the time he hangs up his boots he will most definitely have made close to 10K Away runs and his career tally would be more than say Inzi and Miandad put together(and in about 50 LESSER inngs). And if these are not enough then there is the 100 shambars (which he will most definitely get) the Double in a ODI and being the owner of 5 out of the 6 most important batting records in Intl cricket. Just incredible.

^^ this I want.

[bunny]

For me, it will always have to be Malcolm Marshall. imho, one of the only guys who stood out (in terms of both performance and flash) even when playing among greats.

[rkt.india]

Whoever is greatest test cricketer......SRT is the greatest cricketer ever...32000 International runs, 199 International wickets, 96 centuries in 21 years of cricket and is still going strong for as long as he wants....... no comparison to others........the best and the greatest:two_thumbs_up:

[thongale]

Baaasu has left Sobers behind IMO ...The great man has almost the same record as Sobers in JUST away matches and dont forget the 198 intl wickets plus 200+ intl catches. By the time he hangs up his boots he will most definitely have made close to 10K Away runs and his career tally would be more than say Inzi and Miandad put together(and in about 50 LESSER inngs). And if these are not enough then there is the 100 shambars (which he will most definitely get) the Double in a ODI and being the owner of 5 out of the 6 most important batting records in Intl cricket. Just incredible.

As a batsman may be. But as a player no way. SRT's average per wicket is 40+, where GSS takes them at 34. Both are **** captains, but GSS is light years away when it comes to fielding. Since GSS has played only one ODI it's not fair to add ODIs in to the picture. Even Kallis has a bigger say than SRT for that title because of all round abilities.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[The Outsider]

In other words the Gap between SRT the bowler and Sobers the Bowler is not as wide as SRT the Batsman and Sobers the Batsman.

:hysterical::hysterical: What is this, everyone rushing to get their posts in before the year ends to get the Comical post of the year award. First the Swann description in the Harbhajan thread and now this!!

[The Outsider]

Just out of curiosity how big is the gap between Tendulkar the bowler and Sobers the bowler in terms of percentage?

[Bumper]

Imran Khan ? Are of you f-ing kidding me ? Only the most delusional Pakistanis (delusional may be redundant here) would make such ridiculous claims. Imran Khan is somewhat like Dhoni. Not a gifted cricketer. But one who maximised his talent by his mental fortitude and street smartness. A very good cricketer and possibly one of the greatest leaders of all time. Imran will neither make my top ten list as a bowler or batsman. You cant call such a person the greatest cricketer ever. I'd qualify your claims and state that Imran is the greatest Pakistani cricketer ever. Going by this argument, 20 years later, given Dhoni's 50+ avg in ODIs, one could call him the greatest ODI cricketer of all time, a tag he never commanded while he is playing (like Lurks points out). Imran's stats mean diddley squat. They dont speak about his greatness.