Help!! $50 billion loan waiver needed!!

[Clarke]

Pakistan seeks waiver of $50 bn foreign debt Islamabad, Nov 14 (IANS) Pakistan Sunday urged the international community to waive its debt of over $50 billion to ease the financial burden on the country and enable it to combat terrorism and other challenges. The country has paid a 'heavy price' after becoming part of the war on terror in 2001, Interior Minister Rehman Malik said at the inauguration of the two-day Pakistan Development Forum here. 'The waived-off foreign debt will be utilised in the fight against terrorism,' he said adding: 'We need trade instead of aid.' (Hindu terrorism ?) The minister said: 'Terrorism in Pakistan is being exported from Afghanistan as around 50,000 people crossover daily to the Pakistani side from the porous borders with Afghanistan.' :WTF: Pakistan has been demanding financial and trade assistance from the world after suffering from heavy losses of life and infrastructure in rampant terrorism activities that have killed thousands of people since the start of operations against the Taliban in the country's northwest and neighbouring Afghanistan since 2001. At the Forum, Pakistan's provincial and federal representatives presented before the audience, which included foreign envoys and representatives of financial institutions, details of their requirements after the devastation caused by the floods, which have left more than 1,800 people dead and over 20 million homeless across the country. http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20101114/876/twl-pakistan-seeks-waiver-of-50-bn-forei_1.html Did Ijaz Butt start advising the Pak govt on how to run the show :hmmm: They must have really potent poppy that the Taliban grows in Afghanistan.

[Ram]

WTF!, that’s 10% of their GDP! Its like the US asking China to waive a trillion dollar worth of debt overnight. :hysterical: However, this is so symptomatic of the general victim mentality that seems to prevail across the power strata of Pakistan. Right from the media, who don’t lose a second in blaming India in everything, to the top echelons, all they have is excuses. They say they don’t have money to pay back their debt on one hand, their defence spending is amongst the highest in proportion to their GDP, among all developing nations. So you don’t have money to honor your loans, but you do have money to buy some of the world’s most expensive arms? Go try to fool someone else.

[Guest Gunner]

WTF!, that’s 10% of their GDP! Its like the US asking China to waive a trillion dollar worth of debt overnight. :hysterical: However, this is so symptomatic of the general victim mentality that seems to prevail across the power strata of Pakistan. Right from the media, who don’t lose a second in blaming India in everything, to the top echelons, all they have is excuses. They say they don’t have money to pay back their debt on one hand, their defence spending is amongst the highest in proportion to their GDP, among all developing nations. So you don’t have money to honor your loans, but you do have money to buy some of the world’s most expensive arms? Go try to fool someone else.

Try 30%. Their nominal GDP is around 160-170 billion. You are right about the victim mentality though. They strongly believe that the world owes them something.

[Sachinism]

What is Pakistan's contribution to the world? They just take and take and take

[vaibhav_delhi]

well, india's bad luck to have such a country as a geographic neighbor

[achilles]

Look at the nerve. Only Pakistan can do this and do it with absolutely ZERO conscience and impunity.

well' date=' india's bad luck to have such a country as a geographic neighbor[/quote'] How thankful we should be to God that we are not one country

[vaibhav_delhi]

Look at the nerve. Only Pakistan can do this and do it with absolutely ZERO conscience and impunity. How thankful we should be to God that we are not one country

debatable. I am confused on this.

[Clarke]

The terrible part of all this is other failed states are picking up the cue. One of the top Yemen govt ministers (maybe PM/Prez) earlier 'warned' the world that Yemen needed 4-5 billion dollars every yr as aid/investment for a decade at least or else it was going to turn into a much worse hotbed for terror and hence a headache for everyone. I cannot even sympathize with such nations and their leadership; this is effin international blackmail.

[Mamu]

Look at the nerve. Only Pakistan can do this and do it with absolutely ZERO conscience and impunity. How thankful we should be to God that we are not one country

Just about the ONLY good thing Jinnah did over Gandhi.:--D Seriously Jinnah you deserve :hail:. Even though lot of your family members somehow envisioned the country Pakistan would be in 50 years be and decided to stay back and are enjoying themselves. I would have hated Gandhi for the rest of my life if we were one nation, not to mention I would have denounced my citizenship and cut off all my links with India long long ago.

[Mamu]

debatable. I am confused on this.

Seriously? Like what?

[vaibhav_delhi]

Seriously? Like what?

well pakistan is troubling india with J&k problem, terror camps, infiltration, underworld, fake currency, nuclear weapons headache, 26/11s etc so I cant decide how things would have been if pak was in india. Could 1971 bangla and 1947 partition bloodbath (which was the worst in modern history after the jewish extermination in WW 2 and the multipe wars had been avoided? would india have managed to have minority saner people in pakistan in command working tactfully ? would it have resulted in Less Defence budget, more focus on poverty, healthcare and development? I am not sure.

[CSK Fan]

Just about the ONLY good thing Jinnah did over Gandhi.:--D Seriously Jinnah you deserve :hail:. Even though lot of your family members somehow envisioned the country Pakistan would be in 50 years be and decided to stay back and are enjoying themselves. I would have hated Gandhi for the rest of my life if we were one nation, not to mention I would have denounced my citizenship and cut off all my links with India long long ago.

Ok a question. Can the same logic be applied to Kashmir? Why not? What is the difference except pride? I do not support it but just raising an interesting point

[ravishingravi]

Ok a question. Can the same logic be applied to Kashmir? Why not? What is the difference except pride? I do not support it but just raising an interesting point

Actually there is a serious case for Kashmir to be treated under the same yardstick. I do believe that ethnic cleansing of Pandits has complicated things. But I don't believe that having Kashmir as a part of India offers any real sense of pride.

[Gunner_Mania]

debatable. I am confused on this.

Seriously? Like what?

Agree with vaibhav on the confused bit. I mean we are judging based on how they hav turned out over the last 60 years. We have the advantage of hindsight at the moment. Would things have turned just like this had we been one country. I don't know. I am not saying I would like us to have been one country, I am just not sure how it would have turned out. It might just have been like the proverbial one bad apple spoils the basket rotten or somebody could have thrown the rotten apple out and we may have somehow emerged stronger. Anyhow, we are what we are now, I just some time wish that from the top of the country to the bottom down we didnt live with a 'chaltha hai' attitude for everything.

[bharathh]

Kashmir is of strategic importance to India. Whether or not they provide any pride is irrelevant at this point. Losing/Turning over Kashmir would be catastrophic for the Republic of India.

[Mamu]

well pakistan is troubling india with J&k problem' date=' terror camps, infiltration, underworld, fake currency, nuclear weapons headache, 26/11s etc[/quote'] Terrorism would have existed -- except instead of 'Pakistan being the epicenter of terrorism' it would have been 'India the epicenter of terrorism'.

Could 1971 bangla and 1947 partition bloodbath (which was the worst in modern history after the jewish extermination in WW 2 and the multipe wars had been avoided?

Possibly, but over the years the fight between Hindus and Muslims would have killed equal numbe of people.

would it have resulted in Less Defence budget, more focus on poverty, healthcare and development?

Less Defence Budget. But we are spending today more because we are capable of. But if we were one nation politics would have been completely based on Religion which would have kept us where we were in 1980s. In fact just the fact alone that India with 40% muslims -- Politics was going to be totally based on Religion would have been a disaster. Every single deicsion was going to be be based on appeasement of communities and make no mistake Islam is not an easy religion to walk with and appease.

I am not sure.

Last but not the least -- India would have never been in a position where it is today economically -- if we were one nation. While there is no denying that India still has a long long long way to go -- we were not going to be anywhere near where we are today.

[vaibhav_delhi]

Terrorism would have existed -- except instead of 'Pakistan being the epicenter of terrorism' it would have been 'India the epicenter of terrorism'. Possibly, but over the years the fight between Hindus and Muslims would have killed equal numbe of people. Less Defence Budget. But we are spending today more because we are capable of. But if we were one nation politics would have been completely based on Religion which would have kept us where we were in 1980s. In fact just the fact alone that India with 40% muslims -- Politics was going to be totally based on Religion would have been a disaster. Every single deicsion was going to be be based on appeasement of communities and make no mistake Islam is not an easy religion to walk with and appease. Last but not the least -- India would have never been in a position where it is today economically -- if we were one nation. While there is no denying that India still has a long long long way to go -- we were not going to be anywhere near where we are today.

I appreciate your point of view. But I am still not sure which scenario would have been worse.

[achilles]

I think Mamu's hardline stance, if adopted against them, would do us a world of good.

[Mamu]

I think Mamu's hardline stance' date= if adopted against them, would do us a world of good.http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Headleys-handlers-used-Indo-Pak-cricket-match-as-cover-for-recce/articleshow/6867357.cms

That's where I totally disagree with people -- who consider my views as hardline. My views are REALISTIC. And my views sound harsh and hard because we are dealing with an absolute dick of a nation. Look around and name one other nation which is as much of a pain in the a*$ to other nations of the world as Pakistan is. There is none! And we happen to be its neighbors. I have been called a 'hate-monger', 'bigot', and 'muslim-hater' etc etc on this forum, and that's all fine -- it is their opinion and they can shove their opinions up their own a*$, but I will tell you the kind of people they are -- they are the people who have their heads buried in the sand and when some incident of terror happens linked to the terrorist nation called Pakistan -- they pull their heads out of the sand and go yap yap yap, blah blah blah and they say the same things I do and 2 months down the road -- go right back to bury their heads in the sand. This is what differentiates most people from me. I cannot be like them, I simply cannot. Let me tell you and give you one more example. I (And Probably the ONLY person) on this forum is dead against any Kind of Bi-Lateral Series against Pakistan, be it here or in Pakistan. It was shameful of India to have toured that nation in 2004 and later and also having invited them to tour us. I have several reasons for that and one of them is -- not being able to track the bloody pakis once they enter this nation on visas for matches. Am I saying all 8000 or 10000 or how many ever come to watch matches are terrorists with bad intentions, NO, they are not, but you don't need 8000 people to cause mayhem, you need just 1 person to do that. And since India does not have a fool - proof mechanism to track these guys, it has to be a All or Nothing deal. At one of point I had rather harshly remarked that all Pakis who come here should report to the police station (like criminals do every evening). That remark had created a furor on this forum where at least one Mother F'ing Paki called for my banning and another asking if I was a 'Muslim - Hater'. If I am not wrong the mods deleted the thread. Read this piece of news and tell me If I stand vindicated or not.

[Mamu]

I appreciate your point of view. But I am still not sure which scenario would have been worse.

To reinforce my point take a look at the 2 states which have politics based on religion --- West Bengal and Kerala and look at where they are economically. In fact had it not been for tourism and NRI money in Kerala, that state would have been just like West Bengal. Companies shudder to set up a plant in these states. And even UP for that matter, hardly a day goes by where the politicians there -- not speak about Muslims/Minorities/Caste --- you don't have to look far enough to find a reason for their f**ked up conditions.