India's Greatest Player against Genuine Fast Bowling

[CSK Fan]

My pet annoyance. people spreading myths/wrong info. there is no basis for your comments. mcgrath,gillespie,murali and donald had reasonable sucess but then sachin had sucess against them as well. none of these bowlers had anything to trouble sachin consistently. when you have trouble against a bowler consistently , its because you don't read him or pick him. for instance the trouble we had against mendis in his first 6 months. that's how it works i have seen nothing of that sort sachin has suffered with relation to any of the bowlers. there is a small case for walsh who dismissed him with a rising delivery in their last few odi's.but its inconceivable it would have continued beyond one season. there have been bowlers like collins and razzaq who troubled him for one season as well. but he has always figured them out. one guy who has had surprising sucess has been hansie cronje. waqar/wasim didn't have huge sucess against india in general in tests and sachin didn't play much against them in tests.he has not played much against bond either, the one series being a joke played on rubbish pitches. from the little action we did see, there was nothing to indicate that either of the bowlers had any magic wand to trouble sachin all the time. i don't know why you mention ambrose at all. his one notable sucess the delivery in the ODI in the nz match by a ball that lifts up sharply closer to the chest. high quality bowlers will trouble anyone ,similarly high quality batsmen will trouble anyone as well. it goes one sided only when one side can't pick the other properly at all. for example cullinan against warne. it has not been true in sachin's case certainly not consistently. richards and gavaskar had their share of defeats as well.

Not to mention that all of the above bowlers(except Wasim and Waqar who still rate him highly) have hailed sachin as the best batsmen they bowled against. Would they have said the same if he struggled against them?

[vvvslaxman]

Virendar Sehwag :) . His only problem is seam movement never the pace.

[Asoka]

My pet annoyance. people spreading myths/wrong info. there is no basis for your comments. mcgrath,gillespie,murali and donald had reasonable sucess but then sachin had sucess against them as well. none of these bowlers had anything to trouble sachin consistently. when you have trouble against a bowler consistently , its because you don't read him or pick him. for instance the trouble we had against mendis in his first 6 months. that's how it works i have seen nothing of that sort sachin has suffered with relation to any of the bowlers. there is a small case for walsh who dismissed him with a rising delivery in their last few odi's.but its inconceivable it would have continued beyond one season. there have been bowlers like collins and razzaq who troubled him for one season as well. but he has always figured them out. one guy who has had surprising sucess has been hansie cronje. waqar/wasim didn't have huge sucess against india in general in tests and sachin didn't play much against them in tests.he has not played much against bond either, the one series being a joke played on rubbish pitches. from the little action we did see, there was nothing to indicate that either of the bowlers had any magic wand to trouble sachin all the time. i don't know why you mention ambrose at all. his one notable sucess the delivery in the ODI in the nz match by a ball that lifts up sharply closer to the chest. high quality bowlers will trouble anyone ,similarly high quality batsmen will trouble anyone as well. it goes one sided only when one side can't pick the other properly at all. for example cullinan against warne. it has not been true in sachin's case certainly not consistently. richards and gavaskar had their share of defeats as well.

OK.Point taken.Bond shouldnt be taken into consideration because of the reasons you mentioned.I am ignoring Walsh,Ambrose,Mcgrath,Pollock,Razzaq(135k max),etc because we are talking about genuine quicks(140k+) But could you explain this phenomena(you may check statsguru) 1.Sachin versus Donald 11 matches,5 dismissals,60 runs,avg=12 2.Sachin versus Akhtar 9 matches,3 dismissals,15 runs,avg=5 3.Sachin versus Wasim 7 matches,1 dismissal,35 runs,avg=35 4.Sachin versus Waqar 4 matches,1 dismissal,15 runs,avg=15 5.Sachin versus Brett Lee 12 matches,5 dismissals,202 runs,avg=50.4 6.Sachin versus Steyn 6 matches,2 dismissals,43 runs,avg=21.5 7.Sachin versus Ntini 8 matches,4 dismissals,218 runs,avg=54.5 8.Sachin versus Flintoff 11 matches,2 dismissals,41 runs,avg=20.5 9.Sachin versus Sami 9 matches,1 dismissal,8 runs,avg=8 10.Sachin versus Gillespie 8 matches,6 dismissals,166 runs,avg=27.66 11.Sachin versus Umar Gul 1 match,1 dismissal,2 runs,avg=2 12.Sachin versus Mitchell Johnson 10 matches,3 dismissals,190 runs,avg=63.33 13.Sachin versus James Anderson 6 matches,5 dismissals,126 runs,avg=25.2 Overall,39 dismissals,1121 runs,avg=28.7

[Jimmy Cliff]

Wow...some hardcore domination there by Gul and Malcolm Sami!

[The Outsider]

But could you explain this phenomena(you may check statsguru)

Yeah, that your brain has been zapped by spending too much time on stats guru and number crunching. Those numbers are not ball by ball records of bowlers vs. batsmen. Those stats are not available except for the last 6-7 years or so. They are simply the average of the batsman in the innings he was dismissed by that particular bowler. They do not count the innings in which the batsman might have scored runs against the bowler but was not dismissed by him.

[pensionplan]

They are simply the average of the batsman in the innings he was dismissed by that particular bowler. They do not count the innings in which the batsman might have scored runs against the bowler but was not dismissed by him.

ok that makes sense. That is what I was thinking too. It sure does not include the innings that Tendulkar was not dismissed by these bowlers and the runs he scored against them in those innings.

[hari504504]

Yeah, that your brain has been zapped by spending too much time on stats guru and number crunching. Those numbers are not ball by ball records of bowlers vs. batsmen. Those stats are not available except for the last 6-7 years or so. They are simply the average of the batsman in the innings he was dismissed by that particular bowler. They do not count the innings in which the batsman might have scored runs against the bowler but was not dismissed by him.

thanks for clarifying..:cantstop:whew..I gazed through those numbers and was wondering- "50 hundreds,,really ???..:nervous:"

[Asoka]

Yeah, that your brain has been zapped by spending too much time on stats guru and number crunching. Those numbers are not ball by ball records of bowlers vs. batsmen. Those stats are not available except for the last 6-7 years or so. They are simply the average of the batsman in the innings he was dismissed by that particular bowler. They do not count the innings in which the batsman might have scored runs against the bowler but was not dismissed by him.

Sorry,my mistake. Anyway are you sure we cant get the head to head record between a batsman and bowler?

[vaibhav_delhi]

OK.Point taken.Bond shouldnt be taken into consideration because of the reasons you mentioned.I am ignoring Walsh,Ambrose,Mcgrath,Pollock,Razzaq(135k max),etc because we are talking about genuine quicks(140k+) But could you explain this phenomena(you may check statsguru) 1.Sachin versus Donald 11 matches,5 dismissals,60 runs,avg=12 2.Sachin versus Akhtar 9 matches,3 dismissals,15 runs,avg=5 3.Sachin versus Wasim 7 matches,1 dismissal,35 runs,avg=35 4.Sachin versus Waqar 4 matches,1 dismissal,15 runs,avg=15 5.Sachin versus Brett Lee 12 matches,5 dismissals,202 runs,avg=50.4 6.Sachin versus Steyn 6 matches,2 dismissals,43 runs,avg=21.5 7.Sachin versus Ntini 8 matches,4 dismissals,218 runs,avg=54.5 8.Sachin versus Flintoff 11 matches,2 dismissals,41 runs,avg=20.5 9.Sachin versus Sami 9 matches,1 dismissal,8 runs,avg=8 10.Sachin versus Gillespie 8 matches,6 dismissals,166 runs,avg=27.66 11.Sachin versus Umar Gul 1 match,1 dismissal,2 runs,avg=2 12.Sachin versus Mitchell Johnson 10 matches,3 dismissals,190 runs,avg=63.33 13.Sachin versus James Anderson 6 matches,5 dismissals,126 runs,avg=25.2 Overall,39 dismissals,1121 runs,avg=28.7

These stats are invalid. They only count runs scored against the bowler in the innings in which sachin got out to him. They dont include runs scored against the same bowler in the innings where sachin got out to someone else. So

[Asoka]

These stats are invalid. They only count runs scored against the bowler in the innings in which sachin got out to him. They dont include runs scored against the same bowler in the innings where sachin got out to someone else. So

Correction- these stats count runs scored in the innings' in which......... but yeah they are invalid.A direct head to head stat at the moment seems far fetched.

[Zelig]

Of the players I have seen - SRT Dravid Wasim Jaffer Akash Chopra needs a mention. The problem is not the pace but scoring runs :((

[Sachin=GOD]

Sorry,my mistake. Anyway are you sure we cant get the head to head record between a batsman and bowler?

this is as close as I think statsguru can provide for batsmna against bowler: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=dis_dismissals;template=results;type=batting;view=bowler_summary in the "view format" click on "bowler summary", then under "sort results by" click on "average score upon dismissal" (i think you came at those figures earlier in the thread by clicking on "total dismissals" - that only gives figures when batsman has been dismissed, while "average runs upon dismissal" gives an idea of total runs scored against every bowler) - this might provide a fair idea of how a batsman has done against a bowler.

[don_corleone840]

Sachin is greatest player india ever had no matters what u say.

[vaibhav_delhi]

I now see that outy had already clarified.

[Asoka]

this is as close as I think statsguru can provide for batsmna against bowler: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=dis_dismissals;template=results;type=batting;view=bowler_summary in the "view format" click on "bowler summary", then under "sort results by" click on "average score upon dismissal" (i think you came at those figures earlier in the thread by clicking on "total dismissals" - that only gives figures when batsman has been dismissed, while "average runs upon dismissal" gives an idea of total runs scored against every bowler) - this might provide a fair idea of how a batsman has done against a bowler.

Thanx:--D

[akshayxyz]

There is no way any bowler can sort out Sachin permanently or for reasonably longer duration ( that can be called as domination). By sheer amount of hard work and the practice that Sachin does, he figures out each of them.

[gs]

Players whom I have watched play: Dravid 1996-2006 Sehwag SRT Players before my time: Sunny G Vishy M Amarnath Kapil Srikanth

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Thanx:--D

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[Andy]

edit

:hmmm:

[yoda]

Wow, the greatest player of all time (per the maharathis on this board) isn't even the consensus greatest INDIAN player of genuine fast bowling. :hmmm: