Is VVS Laxman a better player than Goddy under pressure?

[CSK Fan]

The day VVS Laxman is measured by his failures, rather than successes, i.e the day when we start threads when he fails instead of when he succeeds(because the former becomes a rarity for him), that is the day I would say he is truly playing under the pressure of a billion expectations

[spectre]

you havent spared any of the greats, be it DGB, Sobers.... till the 80's to prove the nutcase of propping your 'god' to Numero Uno status. When there is any thread saying Sehwag is currently the best or VVS is the best, invariably it will have a bunch of Sachin fans derailing with all your Sachin's greatness and stats.

it would be if you could list a few threads started by me dragging down any other Indian cricketer to prop up someone else. I have created threads appreciating Sehwags greatness and have marked him for some surreal achievements infact I have a thread for VVS recognizing his pwning of Aussies.

For sure, this thread will be bumped up everytime Laxman gets out, from now on. The OP will be ridiculed, some of the earlier posts will be quoted and ridiculed further. This is the trend so far, taking the context of time out of such threads oh yeah, there is a specialist ops unit to perform these tasks.

[pensionplan]

61-11 in a landslide for VVS over SRT as to who the better player is under pressure as per this forum. Good to see VVS held in such high esteem by the fans. P.S:-And I think this in no way means that SRT did not or cannot perform under pressure excepting that it shows how good VVS really is and his value to the team.

[fineleg]

For sure, this thread will be bumped up everytime Laxman gets out, from now on. The OP will be ridiculed, some of the earlier posts will be quoted and ridiculed further. This is the trend so far, taking the context of time out of such threads oh yeah, there is a specialist ops unit to perform these tasks.

You nailed it right, spectre :thumbs_up: Though 61-11 is extremely clear what the people think of who is the Man-of-crisis to rescue India.

:hitler: my life is not an open book :sniffle: don't play with my chastity!

Without h4teler - flamyngo is mistreated by one and all :(( We need h4teler to protect flemi...where is that ABCD???

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Guest BossBhai]

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[Guest BossBhai]

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[zen]

reg my posts in these threads ... they are retaliatory and I make such posts only when I know it is futile trying to reason with the idiots and after they have started the muck hurling process. Even with rett he was given the option ( and that too not once or twice ) of debating maturely without hurling insults , rhetorics and smilies in lieu of facts and figures. Heck I have even told people that I will crunch stats for them as none of them have access to a stats DB like I do and it is unfair on them to just rely on SG which cannot provide you the sort of stats that I come up with. But when idiots start getting owned in debates they usually resort to hurling muck. Mr. Rett is a classic example of that. And once that happens I usually respond in kind and will continue to do so. Even now if anyone is willing to debate this topic Iam open for a discussion. I can assure you that you will get a fantastic debate and will get to see my POV without me even as much as taking a cheeky pot shot. I have loads of patience to debate and we don't even have to agree at the end. Its not like anyone is going to give you a gold medal at the end of it. Well since the thread itself was created with the intention of ridiculing SRT its only fair that he gets back some of his own meds. What goes around comes around.

You have got into a habit of complaining unnecessarily, haven't you? Let's summarize a few key things: 1. The thread is about Is VVS a better player under pressure than Tendulkar, who is considered to be the best batsman in team India by many. This is NOT about only VVS can play knocks under pressure and Tendulkar can't. 2. This discussion is also NOT about a) Who fails when many of the others succeed (One of the points you brought in was VVS failing at Centurain when others succeeded in 2nd innings. Others who did well in 2nd innings include GG, Sehwag and Dhoni, along with Tendulkar) b) Who scored less when everyone failed (I guess you talked about the 1st inning at Centurian where Tendulkar failed along with others but since he scored more than others, that knock was portrayed to be standing out as if he had scored a 100 when others didn't even score a 50. And when Dhoni and Bhajji scored as many as Tendulkar) c) Who scores more when most guys score (Again you can take the 2nd innings at Centurian as an example) So before saying that you present facts and figures, you must also make an effort to know if the data that you present is relevant to the discussion. Unless ofc you believe that coming up with any data is debating Then you went ahead and provided a list of innings that Tendulkar played in what you considered as playing under pressure. I am not going in to the validity of your data so even if we take your stats at their face value, it showed that excluding the inning against BD, Tendulkar has played just two knocks under pressure (by your own definition) from 2004 to 2010, a grand period of 7 years! The question you have to ask here is that is playing 2 innings (from your own stats) in a period of 7 years shows Tendulkar a better player than VVS. If NOT then what's the point of this data. This data would only be useful if someone claimed that Tendulkar can't play under pressure BUT no body has claimed that. The claim here is VVS is a better player than Tendulkar under pressure! Then you went and talked about 90s as if being a good batsman in a weak batting line up automatically equals what's being discussed here. If that were the case then the likes of Lara, MoYo (of late), Sakib, Flower would have played so many innings under pressure! Even if we ignore this, the stats that you provided of Tendulkar playing under pressure for a grand total of 14 innings out of a total of 176 tests! You presented your stats and figures (some of those didn't even apply here), which were shown to be inadequate but still you think that you couldn't make a debate out of this because some folks use smileys! Earlier, you even thought everyone got buried under the mountain of stats that you gave but has anyone told you that it's the quality that counts and not quantity. What do you expect? You keep acting like a tool, keep going to your database and keep coming up with irrelevant stats until something works! And we keep answering to you in the way you prefer. How about also giving you a glass of water when you get tired of digging or a tissue when tears flow from your eyes when nothing works? I am sorry to say that you had your chances. And you blew those chances away. If you think people have to keep debating with you on your irrelevant stats until you find something that works then that's not debating by you but acting as a tool. If you think that people should debate in a way that you prefer then you should debate with yourself. Rather than accept that you provided irrelevant stats and blew your chances away, you want to complain how you suffered because others use smileys and whatever. In case you still haven't got it: the debate is OVER (even the polls are at 63 to 11), you blew it already by providing a mountain of irrelevant stats. There is nothing more to debate for you unless you think that this is a platform where others comply with you until you keep digging till you find something! And I haven't used any smileys so far so you can't blame the smiley for not understanding what I said above :--D

[pensionplan]

While the debate goes on and Sachin fans feel touchy about VVS's stature in the cricketing world outside of their fanatical world the scoreline is overwhelmingly one sided with the Very Very Special Player leading 63-11 as the best player under pressure over the great Tendulkar which means he is held in a very high esteem and that should mean a lot. For people who think that this is a slight on Tendulkar go get a life. Happy New Year!!!!

[vvvslaxman]

Poll result is a testimony to Laxman's greatness more than Sachin's weakness. Fans should understand that.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[zen]

Rett' date=' before I start answering your post point by point ... answer this honestly ... do you think you will accept ANY stat however accurate and correct it is unless it proves you right ? IMO you are simply not amenable to anything that the other person says. Its either your way or the highway ( or smilies and insults ). So decide and let me know . I can quite easily run you down on either count.[/quote'] Unless you can show (for example) that Laxman has played less than 2 innings under pressure in the last 7 years, I don't see a point! (again haven't used a smiley so that you don't feel your post isn't replied to properly :P )

[Ranjha]

It looks like 64 ppl voted for laxman, made their point clear and got the hell out. But for some reason these 11 ppl are having trouble accepting it and unnecessarily derailing this thread....I ask them to come and bump this yhread when sachin plays such a knock....until then you lack credibility... There is no pt.in braining who is great etc...Read the poll question.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[zen]

Lets first start with whats YOUR definition of what constitutes pressure before we crunch anything.

Can I take it that you cannot show that Laxman hasn't played less than 2 innings under pressure from 2004 to 2010? If anyone is interested in this further then I will let that person to list the innings Laxman has played in what can be termed as pressure situation. But then what are you going to do? Go back to your database for situations where Tendulkar would have done something like that more than Laxman and show that Tendulkar is the best player under pressure for India. That's how things work in your book, don't they? If you really think that Tendulkar has played more knocks like like 281 he hit to change the course of the game against Australia, the 70 odd at Mohali recently when no one scored a 50, the 90 odd at Durban when others failed to measure up, then go ahead and do this exercise .... Even the type of innings that Sehwag plays like the one he played against SL to turn the match around and give enough time for our bowlers to pick 20 wkts or when he hit that quick 80 against Eng, or the type of innings Lara played with tail (150 odd iirc) against Australia in WI to snatch a win for WI or 40-50 Lara hit against Ind on a bad pitch in WI where Ind couldn't chase 100 odd. By asking me for a definition, you are only proving what I said earlier, i.e. you want to dig continuously till you find something that works. Enough said! *smileys in bracket at the end of the post* ( :P )

[vvvslaxman]

It looks like 64 ppl voted for laxman, made their point clear and got the hell out. But for some reason these 11 ppl are having trouble accepting it and unnecessarily derailing this thread....I ask them to come and bump this yhread when sachin plays such a knock....until then you lack credibility... There is no pt.in braining who is great etc...Read the poll question.

He had an opportunity in the first Test. But he chose to give strike right back to the tail after first ball. He did exactly that in Sydney test. Ishant was in his 2nd test. But for 5 overs on the trot i think he took a single first ball of every over and let Ishant face the music from Brett Lee or some other bowler. Sachin remained 153 not out. But India lost the Test. Laxman never gives up hope.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[yoda]

BB, there is no need for you to crunch stats and look for new definition of pressure criteria. Look at the article KR provided a link of. That is good enough unless you want to keep discussing forever by dissecting every word and every paragraph and every table. Use that article and take the ICF poll and together you have your answer (not the one you like ofc :winky:).

[Guest BossBhai]

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[The Outsider]

He had an opportunity in the first Test. But he chose to give strike right back to the tail after first ball. He did exactly that in Sydney test. Ishant was in his 2nd test. But for 5 overs on the trot i think he took a single first ball of every over and let Ishant face the music from Brett Lee or some other bowler. Sachin remained 153 not out. But India lost the Test. Laxman never gives up hope.

Mohali would not have been possible if the Indian team was adopting the pussy foot approach of shielding the tail. And India lost the Sydney test because Tendulkar wanted to remain not out and had given up after adding 200 runs for the last 4 wickets - 27 for the 9th and 31 for the 10th. And giving India a 70 run first innings lead? At least think through the basics before writing!