The Outsider Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 Apparently, the Indian flag was unfurled at 450 different locations across Kashmir today - I suppose we must be really close to resolving the Kashmir issue now, or did it need to be unfurled at 1000 locations for that to happen?
arun81 Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 O9qktcj9b4Y The Sardarji has been beaten up badly and is now in hospital
arun81 Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 Outsider, Are you a "Green" Lizard just like your display pic ?
yoda Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 Apparently' date=' the Indian flag was unfurled at 450 different locations across Kashmir today - I suppose we must be really close to resolving the Kashmir issue now, or did it need to be unfurled at 1000 locations for that to happen?[/quote'] Who said that flag hoisting was supposed to solve all of the nation's problems? That doesn't mean the right to hoist a flag must be denied in one's own country.
The Outsider Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 Outsider' date=' Are you a "Green" Lizard just like your display pic ?
The Outsider Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 Who said that flag hoisting was supposed to solve all of the nation's problems? That doesn't mean the right to hoist a flag must be denied in one's own country. Then, what was the flag hoisting supposed to achieve? BJP has already done it once in the early 90s - what was achieved then? Yeah, it's a right to hoist a flag in the country. But it's also the government's duty to stop any activity which might lead to loss of lives or any kind of tensions. BJP was clearly doing it for political mileage, rather than with the aim of trying to achieve anything concrete. In the process violence could have been a fall out in a state and country where the security apparatus is already stretched. And who is to say the violence would have been confined to just Kashmir - it could easily have turned into a Hindu-Muslim thing even though that might not have been the intention of the BJP. There are enough people who are not able to differentiate between separatists and the average Muslim. In the end, everyone got what they wanted - BJP it's political mileage and bringing the issue to the headlines and the government was able to avoid any loss of life or property.
coffee_rules Posted January 27, 2011 Author Posted January 27, 2011 And who is to say the violence would have been confined to just Kashmir - it could easily have turned into a Hindu-Muslim thing even though that might not have been the intention of the BJP. There are enough people who are not able to differentiate between separatists and the average Muslim. The Babri verdict was also supposed to have caused large scale violence. I think the country has moved on from the 90s culture and is more practical. Yes, the flag hoisting will not solve the Kashmir crisis, but it will atleast show the intent of India's Iron Hand towards the separatists who is taking this issue as an indication of India's weak underbelly.
seedhi Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 An excellent video, found some resonance in it wrt to the thread. Ig2aDeMTu5M
bulbul Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 Thid remainds me of the Edga (Hubli , Karnataka) in 90's similer thing happened against hoisting Indian flag there.
ravishingravi Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 I am more and more convinced that this jargon of "integral part of India" is losing tenability. We treat them a like a colony and they treat us like invaders. Not to mention the slaughtering of Pandits in he valley. I have no interest or desire to have them as part of India. It has become a cancer for India. This decade is an important one for us and if we get our act together India can make major strides in the world. This is a needless waste of economic resource on this State. The fact that the govt. believes that hosting of national flag will "hurt" the sentiments of people of Kashmir say just enough. Let them have their Sharia. Let them become part of a failed state if they wish.
seedhi Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 I am more and more convinced that this jargon of "integral part of India" is losing tenability. We treat them a like a colony and they treat us like invaders. Not to mention the slaughtering of Pandits in he valley. I have no interest or desire to have them as part of India. It has become a cancer for India. This decade is an important one for us and if we get our act together India can make major strides in the world. This is a needless waste of economic resource on this State. The fact that the govt. believes that hosting of national flag will "hurt" the sentiments of people of Kashmir say just enough. Let them have their Sharia. Let them become part of a failed state if they wish.What a ridiculous post!! Is this kind of language allowed, calling a part of India cancerous?
Mariyam Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 Why is this "there-can-be-loss-of-life-because-your-national-flag-was-unfurled" excuse even on the cards to begin with ? Doesn't seem to occur anywhere else in the country. I wonder why ! I absolutely agree with you. That excuse is absolutely unacceptable.Lal Chowk is a place where flags are generally hoisted. If someone objects to flag hoisting there, just don't turn up for it. No one is forcing you to be there. Sit at home, watch TV, post on ICF or whatever. And the funny part is that the central government has barred an opposition party from hoisting a flag in what is according to the constitution of India a sovereign part of the country. That is extremely unconstitutional and unethical. Well you can argue that the 15 odd thousand people there would be a law and order problem, but a single person is required to hoist the flag. What is the big fuss anyways. The whole episode reeks of stupidity and opportunism. Flag hoisting alone won't solve anything. If the BJP is so concerned about Kashmir, do something to diversify its economy. Something is seriously wrong with the way we think. A complete non issue is dragged on and on, we argue over it (even over here), bring in religion, political parties play a game of oneupmanship and in the end nothing really changes for the common man.
ravishingravi Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 I absolutely agree with you. That excuse is absolutely unacceptable.Lal Chowk is a place where flags are generally hoisted. If someone objects to flag hoisting there, just don't turn up for it. No one is forcing you to be there. Sit at home, watch TV, post on ICF or whatever. And the funny part is that the central government has barred an opposition party from hoisting a flag in what is according to the constitution of India a sovereign part of the country. That is extremely unconstitutional and unethical. Well you can argue that the 15 odd thousand people there would be a law and order problem, but a single person is required to hoist the flag. What is the big fuss anyways. The whole episode reeks of stupidity and opportunism. Flag hoisting alone won't solve anything. If the BJP is so concerned about Kashmir, do something to diversify its economy. Something is seriously wrong with the way we think. A complete non issue is dragged on and on, we argue over it (even over here), bring in religion, political parties play a game of oneupmanship and in the end nothing really changes for the common man. But BJP is not claiming to solve anything. It is the culmination of Yatra which has moved through some other states. The question is, Is it your fundamental right or not to hoist the Indian flag anywhere on Indian territory ? If yes, then where is question of opportunism or lack of it. Btw what do you mean by "diversify" the economy ? What are you expecting them to do ?
Mariyam Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 But BJP is not claiming to solve anything. It is the culmination of Yatra which has moved through some other states. The question is' date=' Is it your fundamental right or not to hoist the Indian flag anywhere on Indian territory ? If yes, then where is question of opportunism or lack of it. Btw what do you mean by "diversify" the economy ? What are you expecting them to do ?[/quote'] But I am not claiming that the BJP is claiming to solve anything. :haha: Frankly, I am neither pro nor against this yatra. All I know, is that hoisting a national flag is their fundamental right, even if it pointless ( which is apparent now). Period. And I mentioned that in my post above also. 'Diversify' is just a big economic word I read somewhere. That was my Amartya Sen mime there. lol Here's what I mean by diversify. To put the situation in Kashmir in simple terms, a youth has 3 choices at graduation. 1 He/she joins the tourism industry and is occupied according to the level of his qualification/ expertise. 2 He/she joins the government. Limited jobs. Lots of Sifarish to get these jobs and these guys (bureaucrats) are very very powerful in Kashmir because of #370. 3 Get depressed by the absolute lack of opportunities everywhere, which eventually leads to some sort of fanaticism. (not claiming that this is the only cause of fanaticism) What a political party can do is try and provide a sustainable source of income. Thats a tried and tested method for the betterment of the Kashmiris. If they can't do that in Kashmir, the BJP/Congress or whoever can make a 1% ( just a random figure) quota in private & public companies for Kashmiri youth in the states they rule. At least, temporarily. Thats my suggestion, and I'm sure its not free of faults. But I'm not a politician. I can't work these things out.
Mariyam Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 Outsider' date=' Are you a "Green" Lizard just like your display pic ? I'm no expert on wild life, but my guess is that its a chameleon.
varun Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 Unless an entire region going "green" ( and ofcourse out of India ) isnt a issue to be worried about in your opinion then you are right. Then there is the small matter of the Pandits who nobody simply care about. Please tell me who drove them out and what was the reason ? The Gutless country is soo callous and docile that nobody really cares about such serious issues. This is why a party like BJP has to do what it does to shed some limelight on it. If this sort of a thing was happening even in some other tinpot nation the bozos would have had been butt-****d by the Military a long long time ago. Only in India that the practice of Gandhigiri is applied on matters that are otherwise handled by Military. I think she was saying that once you improve the economic situation, and provide better incentives for the youth to not opt for going "green", it'll help more with your objective of a united india, than purely military measures which tend to be divisive in the long run. Both Carrot & Stick Some of the things IMO that J&K needs are: - More efficient and less invasive policing. There needs to be a massive investment here to modernize. The current ancient methods of policing only tend to alienate the populace. - Weaken the beauraucratic structure. Getting rid of #370 would be a start. - Even though they've started on some infrastructure projects in Kashmir, more needs to be done. Heavy investment here too. - Soft power: Don't underestimate entertainment. Kashmir needs to have some role-models that they can look up to. Some movie stars, sports stars, etc. - Encourage more private investment - but that'll automatically happen once there is better infrastructure and it doesn't feel like a police state.
straight.drive Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 The best solution is the chinese method. Deport the Kashmiris to the Land of pure and fill kashmir with immigrants from the rest of the country. Then the holy jihadis will not have a place to rest their **** on...
varun Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 Yaar the govt has been literally giving them "free money" for god knows how many yrs. How long are we going to keep cheating our own selves into thinking that the problem is economy related ? Thing is, that the "free money" philosophy doesn't work. People don't want free money, they want dignity of work and a good quality of life. I am talking here about good jobs, and good infrastructure.. something that makes them feel proud of their state. Just look at how different delhi-ites feel before and after the metro.. Relatively small things like that can have a huge impact on how you feel about your state and your country. Vaise I think u already know that I grew up in J&K, and I'm from an army background, so I've gotten a fairly balanced view of both sides from childhood. I've seen the army view, and it deals more with symptoms than the cause. If pitifull economic conditions and lack of political voice are the main reasons attributed to them going "Green" how come no hindu group in current day pakistan , afghanistan, BD, Indonesia and ofcourse the Pandits in Kashmir have not taken up arms ? If you're suggesting that the religion might be the reason, then I'd differ slightly. Sure, there are elements of the religion (like slaying goats) which are aggressive and brutal. But overall from firsthand experience I think the original Kashmiri people are pretty laid back and caring. If there are aggressive elements, then they should be nurtured and directed appropriately rather than be opposed. Look at Sikhs, who are one of the most aggressive people, but they are also one of our biggest assets in the army. In any society, you need your thinkers who should administer, the warriors who fight, and the industrialists who generate wealth (kinda similar to our original caste system or the system espoused by Plato, but much more flexible.. ) It is our job to make sure that the warriors or the aggressors in our society fight for us rather than against us.
straight.drive Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 The economic solution is never gonna work. The conflict is in lines of religion. Majority of kashmiri nut heads think that india is a fundamentalist state hell bent on destroying their religion.
varun Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 The economic solution is never gonna work. The conflict is in lines of religion. Majority of kashmiri nut heads think that india is a fundamentalist state hell bent on destroying their religion. I agree there are quite a few nuts, but the majority are normal folks who look for role models and leaders to follow. Right now these nuts are all they have. It is upto us to change the thinking. By being aggressive against the normal folks, we will be re-inforcing the thought that you mentioned (i.e. india is hell bent on destroying their religion)
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