Sachin's centuries and India's defeats.

[asterix]

then whats your aim???

I think by now it should've been obvious..He is trying to portray that since Dhoni has been captain, majority of the losses are due to Sachin making centuries..Dhoni's screwing up in captaincy, batting order, team selection, bowling strategies, field settings, playing with tailenders, brain farts has nothing to do with it..

[vaibhav_delhi]

Since you have taken the stats from 2006 onwards, what about looking at it from a different perspective: From 1989 to 2006 India's winning% in ODIs was 48.63 BUT when Goddy scores a 100 the winning% goes up to 73.68. From 2006 onwards India's winning% in ODIs is 56 BUT when Goddy scores a 100 the winning& goes down to 50%. Since Goddy's debut, India's winning% is 46 BUT when Goddy scores a 100 it goes up to 63%.

I am seeing that from 1989 to 31 Dec 2005, the win %age in Tons is 70%. Perhaps you've also included record against the minnows. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;result=1;runsmin1=100;runsval1=runs;spanmax1=31+Dec+2005;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting;view=match http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=start;runsmin1=100;runsval1=runs;spanmax1=31+Dec+2005;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting;view=match

[vaibhav_delhi]

then whats your aim???

As I've mentioned I intended to highlight that stat and now to bring out the factors responsible for tht stat. If you actually read this post, probably you will realize that I am not blaming sachin in points 1, 2 and 4. And you'd probably agree that factor #1 could be partly responsible for india losing 9/29 Vs SA and 7/23 Vs england and then letting them make 338.

[The Outsider]

SInce 2006, Win %age in Sachins hundreds 50%. over-all win %age: 56%

Applying arbitrary cuts to an already small sample size is going to give you such results. Just 1-2 centuries effect these percentages too much to carry any meaning.

[Sachin=GOD]

I am seeing that from 1989 to 31 Dec 2005' date=' the win %age in Tons is 67.8%. Perhaps you've also included record against [b']the minnows. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;result=1;runsmin1=100;runsval1=runs;spanmax1=31+Dec+2005;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting;view=match http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=start;runsmin1=100;runsval1=runs;spanmax1=31+Dec+2005;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting;view=match

were those matches against the minnow practice matches??? or did the minnows specifically bowl easily to Goddy but bowled good balls to the other batsmen so that the other batsmen were not able to score runs while Goddy scored 100s so you are inclined to exclude these matches from the total score???

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Laaloo]

http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=1368216&postcount=131 Vaibhev, you haven't replied to my post yet :hmmm:

[Mariyam]

Sure,, I'll do it :icflove: (Stats are 2 matches old) ====================================================== All matches featuring Sachin Total Matches = 442 Sachin Runs = 17815 Total India runs = 99136 Average Percentage of Total Team Score = 17.82 % ====================================================== All Matches featuring Sachin and Won by India Total Matches = 225 Sachin Runs = 10827 Total India runs = 54191 Average Percentage of Total Team Score = 20.305% ====================================================== Hence there is an average 2.5 % increase in Sachin's contribution when India wins, which is pretty significant since it must run in 1500+ runs atleast ===================================================== Here is the query incase someone wants select SUM(pbs.runs_scored),SUM(i.runs),AVG((pbs.runs_scored/i.runs)*100),COUNT(i.matchid) from Players p, Matches m, PlayerBattingStats pbs, Innings i where p.id = pbs.playerid and m.id = pbs.matchid and m.id = i.matchid and m.winning_teamid = 6 and p.cname = 'Sachin Tendulkar' and i.batting_teamid = 6 and m.matchtype = 'ODI';

Thank you so much. You've obviously taken a lot of efforts to get this done. :two_thumbs_up: :icflove: What you've done is you compiled a total of Sachin's runs in all the games and taken a ratio with India's total. What I meant was that you should take a ratio in every game and then take an average of those ratios. Is that the right way to do it? Will it make any substantial difference or does it work out to the same? Also, 2.5% doesn't seem much, does it? How do we know if this % is good, bad or ugly? Just playing the devil's advocate here.

[vaibhav_delhi]

Vaibhav, Is it possible for you to come out with a straight forward no-nonsense answer to my question ? So to repeat my question : What is it that you are EXACTLY trying to highlight with that stat considering that you are also now saying that you attach no blame on SRT for the losses when he scores > 100 ? ( And pls dont ask me to go read some previous post. I have read all of them and they simply are just vague ). Are you trying to tell that its a coincidence or that the team sucks or something else ?

Pls read the what I am trying to highlight in this post. 1st factor is something for you and probably for Team india to think about and correct. 2nd factor is the one that Outy gave. In 3rd factor, I have blamed sachin (I believe its a minor factor but still worth mentioning) Last 'factor' is pure luck or co-incidence.

[vaibhav_delhi]

http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=1368216&postcount=131 Vaibhev, you haven't replied to my post yet :hmmm:

Laaloo: 1. :hysterical:, buddy I would be moron if I suggested that we lost due to Sach's Strike rate. 2. Think my wordings are getting interpreted in a negative way. If you want, you could ignore it. 3. Regarding the reasons why I feel those stats arose, I request you to pls read post#154 n #162.

[Laaloo]

Laaloo: 1. :hysterical:, buddy I would be moron if I suggested that we lost due to Sach's Strike rate. 2. Think my wordings are getting interpreted in a negative way. If you want, you could ignore it. 3. Regarding the reasons why I feel those stats arose, I request you to pls read post#154 n #162.

Nope, I have read all of your posts. My question is simple, How does Sachin scoring a Ton DOES NOT increase Indias chances of winning by much? that too at a strike of > 100. If any opener scores a hundred, that too at a SR > 100, than that should increase that team's chances of winning the match.

[vaibhav_delhi]

Nope' date=' I have read all of your posts. My question is simple, How does Sachin scoring a Ton DOES NOT increase Indias chances of winning by much? that too at a strike of > 100. If any opener scores a hundred, that too at a SR > 100, than that should increase that team's chances of winning the match.[/quote'] That should, but apparently its not doing so by much looking at the stats....

[Sachin=GOD]

Pls read the what I am trying to highlight in this post. 1st factor is something for you and probably for Team india to think about and correct. 2nd factor is the one that Outy gave. In 3rd factor, I have blamed sachin (I believe its a minor factor but still worth mentioning) Last 'factor' is pure luck or co-incidence.

In the 1st factor, if the other players are affected by high expectations from the crowd then they'd better sit at home - the crowd is supposed to create pressure and the player are supposed to perform well in that pressure otherwise why would they be revered icons of the country. Again, if they are over awed by Goddy and are unable to perform their roles perfectly then its time to retire for them because they've been selected to the team to perform a particular role and not to get over awed by their own team mates. In the 3rd factor, is it not the fault of the other 10 guys in the team? After all they are not there in the team to simply fill the team sheet - they also are supposed to play a part in the team's victory. Is it not expecting a bit too much of one single player, who has already scored 175, to do everything himself??? As for the 4th factor, I think its your bad luck that you are simply unable to see the value that Goody brings to the team whether he scores or not.

[Raghav_12]

I am seeing that from 1989 to 31 Dec 2005, the win %age in Tons is 67.8%. Perhaps you've also included record against the minnows. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;result=1;runsmin1=100;runsval1=runs;spanmax1=31+Dec+2005;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting;view=match http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=start;runsmin1=100;runsval1=runs;spanmax1=31+Dec+2005;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting;view=match

From 15 Nov 1989 to 31 Dec 2005 - India's Winning % (Against top 7 Nations) = 42% Sachin's Average = 41.5 01 Jan 2006 to Till Now India's Winning % (Against top 7 Nations) = 52.4% Sachin's average = 51 So in last 5 years, India's winning % has gone up from 42% to 52% (for rest of the Tendulkar's playing duration). For similar time periods Tendulakar's average has gone up from 41 to 51. Don't you see striking similarity in numbers ? Sachin's average goes up from 41 to 51 and winning % goes up from 42 to 52. It closes the matter.

[ganeshran]

Thank you so much. You've obviously taken a lot of efforts to get this done. :two_thumbs_up: :icflove: What you've done is you compiled a total of Sachin's runs in all the games and taken a ratio with India's total. What I meant was that you should take a ratio in every game and then take an average of those ratios. Is that the right way to do it? Will it make any substantial difference or does it work out to the same? Also, 2.5% doesn't seem much, does it? How do we know if this % is good, bad or ugly? Just playing the devil's advocate here.

I think it will pretty much work out to be the same, and for comparison purposes it makes even more negligible difference. IMO 2.5% is a huge difference in victory score percentages. These stats are spread over 442 matches, where many many more players have played for India, Yet Tendulkar has managed to score 1/5 th of the total score of India in victories. Its no mean achievement. So Sachin has consistently managed to score more when India has won matches. However, The data cannot be held true for all cases since there is no direct correlation between batsman's score and a team's victory and with so many other variables present. But if all other parameters (our bowling performance, fielding, opposition team's bowling, fielding and batting, ground conditions, umpiring decisions) are kept constant (highly unlikely), then the team's chances of winning are directly proportional to Sachin's score.

[vaibhav_delhi]

Applying arbitrary cuts to an already small sample size is going to give you such results. Just 1-2 centuries effect these percentages too much to carry any meaning.

India were a weaker side, mainly dependent on Sach's heroics in the 90's. They started to become formidable unit in 2000's. Checking the record since 1st Jan 2000, I see a similar pattern.11 Wins in 20 Tons. (55%). I think this should be a fair sample size. 11 wins: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=start;result=1;runsmin1=100;runsval1=runs;spanmax2=15+Mar+2011;spanmin2=01+Jan+2000;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting;view=match 21 Tons, 1 is in a No-result match, hence not considered: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=start;runsmin1=100;runsval1=runs;spanmax2=15+Mar+2011;spanmin2=01+Jan+2000;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting;view=match

[The Outsider]

From 15 Nov 1989 to 31 Dec 2005 - India's Winning % (Against top 7 Nations) = 42% Sachin's Average = 41.5 01 Jan 2006 to Till Now India's Winning % (Against top 7 Nations) = 52.4% Sachin's average = 51 So in last 5 years, India's winning % has gone up from 42% to 52% (for rest of the Tendulkar's playing duration). For similar time periods Tendulakar's average has gone up from 41 to 51. Don't you see striking similarity in numbers ? Sachin's average goes up from 41 to 51 and winning % goes up from 42 to 52. It closes the matter.

Interesting that India's winning percentage trails so closely Tendulkar's average. Now, if only Tendulkar was good enough to average 100, India would be winning all their matches. :giggle:

[rkt.india]

More than SRT's 100s, most important thing about him is his dedication and commitment. How even after 22 years, he is standing tall head and shoulders above the rest. Even his closest opponent will accept that. If our youngsters can learn even 25% from him, future of Indian cricket will be bright.

[pinkfreud]

Gee, and I thought this thread would've been done with already...

[vaibhav_delhi]

From 15 Nov 1989 to 31 Dec 2005 - India's Winning % (Against top 7 Nations) = 42% Sachin's Average = 41.5 01 Jan 2006 to Till Now India's Winning % (Against top 7 Nations) = 52.4% Sachin's average = 51 So in last 5 years, India's winning % has gone up from 42% to 52% (for rest of the Tendulkar's playing duration). For similar time periods Tendulakar's average has gone up from 41 to 51. Don't you see striking similarity in numbers ? Sachin's average goes up from 41 to 51 and winning % goes up from 42 to 52. It closes the matter.

1. this thread is regarding India's relative inability to win when Sachin scores Tons. And as mentioned in my last post, that issue actually exists esp from the last decade. 2. Pls post the link to whatever stat you are posting. India's win percentage in 56% since 2006, you have taken the 10 No-Result matches in account in your figure: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=won;result=1;result=2;result=3;spanmin1=05+Jan+2006;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=team http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=won;result=1;result=2;result=3;result=5;spanmin1=05+Jan+2006;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=team