Sehwag vs Anwar in ODIs as opener

[Trichromatic]

Once again this excludes those matches which were good for batting and team failed to save the match or pitch was slightly difficult and team saved the match with superb batting. It's the task of batsmen to save matches when winning is difficult.

good point but in general what would you say is the main reason behind drawn test?

Good batting by good batsmen and poor bowling by poor bowlers. :dontknow: Here is an example from 2000 to 2010, 10 times 450+ runs were scored against Pakistan in Aus, Eng, SA, NZ and WI. Pakistan lost 6 of those. 3 matches saved against NZ and 1 against Eng. Matches : 10 Lost : 6 (60%) Saved : 4 (40%) http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;opposition=7;orderby=won;runsmin1=450;runsval1=runs;spanmax1=06+Aug+2012;spanmax2=31+Dec+2010;spanmin1=01+Jan+2000;spanmin2=01+Jan+2000;spanval1=span;spanval2=span;team=1;team=2;team=3;team=4;team=5;template=results;type=team 450+ runs were scored 15 times against India and India lost only 6 of those. 10 matches were saved. 3 against WI, 1 against NZ, 3 against Australia and 2 against Eng. Matches : 15 Lost : 6 (40%) Saved : 9 (60%) http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;opposition=6;orderby=won;runsmin1=450;runsval1=runs;spanmax2=31+Dec+2010;spanmin2=01+Jan+2000;spanval2=span;team=1;team=2;team=3;team=4;team=5;template=results;type=team Notice the the difference of 20% in saved matches. Matches with 450+ scores could be considered as flat pitches especially if those runs are scored against Pakistani fast bowling. :winky: (10 450+ scores were made in 38 matches against Pakistan and 15 in 37 matches against India, so one might think that pitches were flatter in Pakistan's case as teams don't score those many runs too easily. Yet batsmen failed to save most of those matches). So, if Indian batsmen make an extra effort and save those matches to convert lost ones into drawn ones then it doesn't devalues their batting. In away matches that % is quite significant and difference is because of quality of batting sides. Absolute roads more often result in draws, most of the draws are on flat pitches but many there is always an good % of lost matches which could have converted into draw matches by good batting sides. Many matches are lost on flat tracks and many are saved on difficult tracks.

so india were happy with drawn test' date=' playing for stats.[/quote'] Won't you like it when your batsmen save matches instead of collapsing in 4th inning. So, my question is that why some of those matches couldn't be saved? After all pitch was supposed to be very flat considering the bowling attack of Pakistan?

[panther]

Good batting by good batsmen and poor bowling by poor bowlers. :dontknow: Here is an example from 2000 to 2010, 10 times 450+ runs were scored against Pakistan in Aus, Eng, SA, NZ and WI. Pakistan lost 6 of those. 3 matches saved against NZ and 1 against Eng. Matches : 10 Lost : 6 (60%) Saved : 4 (40%) http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;opposition=7;orderby=won;runsmin1=450;runsval1=runs;spanmax1=06+Aug+2012;spanmax2=31+Dec+2010;spanmin1=01+Jan+2000;spanmin2=01+Jan+2000;spanval1=span;spanval2=span;team=1;team=2;team=3;team=4;team=5;template=results;type=team 450+ runs were scored 15 times against India and India lost only 6 of those. 10 matches were saved. 3 against WI, 1 against NZ, 3 against Australia and 2 against Eng. Matches : 15 Lost : 6 (40%) Saved : 10 (60%) http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;opposition=6;orderby=won;runsmin1=450;runsval1=runs;spanmax2=31+Dec+2010;spanmin2=01+Jan+2000;spanval2=span;team=1;team=2;team=3;team=4;team=5;template=results;type=team Notice the the difference of 20% in saved matches. Matches with 450+ scores could be considered as flat pitches especially if those runs are scored against Pakistani fast bowling. :winky: (10 450+ scores were made in 38 matches against Pakistan and 15 in 37 matches against India, so one might think that pitches were flatter in Pakistan's case as teams don't score those many runs too easily. Yet batsmen failed to save most of those matches). So, if Indian batsmen make an extra effort and save those matches to convert lost ones into drawn ones then it doesn't devalues their batting. In away matches that % is quite significant and difference is because of quality of batting sides. Absolute roads more often result in draws, most of the draws are on flat pitches but many there is always an good % of lost matches which could have converted into draw matches by good batting sides. Many matches are lost on flat tracks and many are saved on difficult tracks. Won't you like it when your batsmen save matches instead of collapsing in 4th inning. So, my question is that why some of those matches couldn't be saved? After all pitch was supposed to be very flat considering the bowling attack of Pakistan?

excellent post I agree with you, my argument is very weak after this explanation by you, but it does hold some weight I feel in regards to a lot of matches are drawn due to the pitch being very flat. but I see that my argument is pretty flawed but can't be discounted all-together.

[Trichromatic]

but it does hold some weight I feel in regards to a lot of matches are drawn due to the pitch being very flat. but I see that my argument is pretty flawed but can't be discounted all-together.

Yes a lot of matches end in a draw because of flat tracks, but like I said earlier many matches can swing either way irrespective of pitch because of quality of batting units. So, while excluding drawn matches effectively eliminates those performances in which players from both sides scored runs very easily, it also eliminates good number of matches were saved because batsmen got more help from their partners. Note that in above example gave us comparison for probably (because easy track can't be judged from just numbers) top 15 easiest pitches for India v top 10 easiest pitches for Pakistan. If we take top 15 easiest pitches for Pakistan then % of saved matches drops to 33%. That's 27% less from India's number. So, if we ever rely just on stats then we ratio of eliminated matches for India and Pakistan could be 9:5. That's significant difference. Results depend not only on pitches, but also on team. In fact there aren't many matches in which both teams score 500+ runs or just say huge scores. It would be better to compare them after Sehwag's retirement. Either way, Sehwag is bigger FTB than Anwar. There is no doubt about that.

[panther]

After 6 pages of discussion We have established that there no longer can be any doubt that Saeed Anwar is a superior batsman to sehwag in both test and odi cricket.

[Trichromatic]

After 6 pages of discussion We have established that there no longer can be any doubt that Saeed Anwar is a superior batsman to sehwag in both test and odi cricket.

:giggle: Are you saying that because I said Sehwag is bigger FTB than Anwar? If yes, then I should say that probably meaning of FTB are slightly different for us. :winky: Most of the great batsmen were better FTB than Anwar. I would always take Sehwag above Anwar in both formats and that's not just because he is Indian, rather better batsman than him (once again check Sehwag's record in first 15 matches)

[Magneto]

:giggle: at Panther's triumphant conclusion.

[panther]

http://blogs.espncricinfo.com/itfigures/archives/2012/04/consistency_in_test_batsmen_a.php A fantastic article on consistency of batsman and the legend saeed anwar is right up there I would recommend everyone to read this.

[Trichromatic]

http://blogs.espncricinfo.com/itfigures/archives/2012/04/consistency_in_test_batsmen_a.php A fantastic article on consistency of batsman and the legend saeed anwar is right up there I would recommend everyone to read this.

:hmmm: Legend for Pakistani fans only, I guess. No surprise that Sehwag is not up there.

[Old guy]

After 6 pages of discussion We have established that there no longer can be any doubt that Saeed Anwar is a superior batsman to sehwag in both test and odi cricket.

nah jsut concluded tht ur boring troll who tries too hard :((

[panther]

nah jsut concluded tht ur boring troll who tries too hard :((

nothing to cry about, if you don't like my post than don't bother replying.

[Clarke]

http://blogs.espncricinfo.com/itfigures/archives/2012/04/consistency_in_test_batsmen_a.php A fantastic article on consistency of batsman and the legend saeed anwar is right up there I would recommend everyone to read this.

Followed closely by Ranatunga & Collingwood :ohmy: How come you guys never adopted them :hitler:

[Old guy]

http://blogs.espncricinfo.com/itfigures/archives/2012/04/consistency_in_test_batsmen_a.php A fantastic article on consistency of batsman and the legend saeed anwar is right up there I would recommend everyone to read this.

being consistently mediocre or average does not changes anything :P do analysis on rohit even he is very consistent :icflove:

[Asim]

I think to any neutral cricket fan, Sehwag might not be considered as a CLASS player which Saeed Anwar definitely was :) Now I am not saying playing elegantly or being classical is more effective for the team bcz Sehwag using his own techniques is way more destructive than Saeed.

[Ultimate_Game]

I think to any Paki cricket fan' date= Sehwag might not be considered as a CLASS player which Saeed Anwar definitely was :) Now I am not saying playing elegantly or being classical is more effective for the team bcz Sehwag using his own techniques is way more destructive than Saeed.

Corrected :giggle: Don't really know what "class" we are talking about coz that class didn't help Anwar, Inzi or Yusuf do jack shyte against Aussies & Saffers :haha:

[Asim]

^ whatever :D

[Ultimate_Game]

After 6 pages of discussion We have established that there no longer can be any doubt that Saeed Anwar is a superior batsman to sehwag in both test and odi cricket.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: The only conclusion reached so far... Sehwag >>> Anwar+Inzi+Yusuf put together against SA & AUS :haha: Says a lot when Sehwag all by himself outclasses All Time Paki Greats :giggle:

[Ultimate_Game]

^ whatever :D

The one thing I do remember about those "classy: batsmen was the way they used to go back to the dressing room after pottering around doing nothing in the middle against better teams like Aus & SA. Amazing that Inzi is renown as "the best batsman of fast bowlin", Anwar as "best left hander" and Yusuf as the savior of Paki cricket when all 3 of them put toether couldn't do anything against Aus & SA :hysterical:

[Clarke]

When it was SRT vs all adopted sons, consistency didn't matter squat, it was all about matchwinners :cantstop:

[Asim]

The one thing I do remember about those "classy: batsmen was the way they used to go back to the dressing room after pottering around doing nothing in the middle against better teams like Aus & SA. Amazing that Inzi is renown as "the best batsman of fast bowlin", Anwar as "best left hander" and Yusuf as the savior of Paki cricket when all 3 of them put toether couldn't do anything against Aus & SA :hysterical:

^ & How about Eng? :winky: I can see you guys very nicely exlude "vs Eng" factor due to obvious reasons :--D

[Ultimate_Game]

^ & How about Eng? :winky: I can see you guys very nicely exlude "vs Eng" factor due to obvious reasons :--D

Even if you include England I doubt Anwar and Inzi did anything outstanding "haha: The best part was Pakis going on about Inzamam as the best batsman against pace bowling and against the best pacement, which were Aussies & Saffers, the guy was a walking wkt :giggle: Same with Yusuf. As for Anwar the guy was no more than an average opener with a batting average of 45. That's pretty ordinary to be honest :giggle: