Mariyam Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 ^ We will have apologisers saying the legal case is not tight enough Who said that? These 'apologisers' that you mention have no place in the Indian legal system. I don't know how the judiciary works where you reside, but out here what some random person says doesn't have much bearing on the outcome of a case. Seriously, try not to fault a system or a set of people because you don't understand how it/they function(s). It is the law of the land that gives even an animal like Kasab the right to appeal to the SC. I don't know if he has done that yet, but there is no reason to believe that the SC won't also proclaim him guilty and award the death penalty if/when he does. So there's no need to be condescending towards the judiciary. They haven't been lenient in the least to Kasab. They have been just, which is what is expected. The reason he isn't hanged so far is that there are others who have been sentenced to death before him and are awaiting execution. No conspiracy here. Just a queue. There were some talks by Ex HC CJ Dholakia to jump the queue in such cases, but I don't know what has come of that.
The Outsider Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Thats a very valid point. I do not know how we deal with the repealed/amended legislation in criminal spheres a la POTA. I will have to check it up. But my hunch is that the POTA being repealed doesn't matter here. He had confessed and a confession under POTA is generally not as binding as a custodial or voluntary (outside) confession for understandable reasons. If his confession carried any weight under POTA, it will count for more under a less severe legislation. Typically, the more draconian the legislature, lesser the 'value' it attaches to confessions. Am I missing something here - why would a confession under a stricter law like POTA carry over to one under a less severe legislation? Capital punishment is a right the state should exercise when nothing else is pliable. I understand where you are coming from, but Capital punishment is a must ( as a deterrent) in the current Indian scenario. I'll start a new thread or try to bump up an old one if it exists.
The Outsider Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Who said that? KT is referring to me as being the apologist because I happened to ask some questions about the implementation of the law to people who have studied law and practise it as a profession. Don't mind his interruptions.
asterix Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Capital Punishment is a MUST..Ask the cook who cooks the Chicken/Mutton/Beef Biryanis day in and day out for these Jehadi ****erz..
Mariyam Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 Am I missing something here - why would a confession under a stricter law like POTA carry over to one under a less severe legislation? The confession wouldn't carry over, I was speaking hypothetically. I know what you are getting at. I asked a criminal lawyer I know, and he said that if it were a case of tampered evidence/ inappropriate way of collating evidence etc, there would not have been a mercy petition, but the sentence would have been challenged. Why would Afzal's lawyers even talk about a mercy petition when they claim that Afzal is being framed. Doesn't sound right. And there would be ample bruhaha by the media over the entire thing. I tend to agree with him, at least for now. Even if he were tried in a regular (non POTA) court back then, he would have been found guilty. This seems to be a tight case. His mercy petition to the President included a confession ( but that may be a prerequisite for any such mercy petition). Pardoning of Nalini ( a co-conspirator in the Rajiv Gandhi case) has set a very bad precedent. But I will ask people who are in the know for more info on this. I promise you that.
King Tendulkar Posted May 5, 2011 Author Posted May 5, 2011 KT is referring to me as being the apologist because I happened to ask some questions about the implementation of the law to people who have studied law and practise it as a profession. Don't mind his interruptions. Clueless as usual:--D
King Tendulkar Posted May 5, 2011 Author Posted May 5, 2011 They guy attacks our parliament and our country. And we get apologists saying that Afzal does not have legal case against him blah blah USA did not bother getting the jury involved in taking Bin Laden out or in taking care of other major enemies to their country. We are not dealing with a petty criminal but a serious threat to our whole country in terms of security and repuatation. Fact is he has not been killed cos of politicians not wanting to disturb their muslim voters. And not cos of some pathetic apparent legal reasons. Its this kind of nonsense which encourages further jihads and makes us pathetic but our own people accept this BS as per apologists so they can get away with it. Any soverign nation can push through the sentence with ease, only in india does such lenency apply and we all know the reason, although some will want to claim its simply due to legal reasons.
ganeshran Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 If there were legal issues then they would have been resolved in the court. This case has been through many courts and judges. Any fundamental flaws would have been detected in the legal process. the holding up of Afzal guru's execution is due to political reasons, not legal reasons.
King Tendulkar Posted May 5, 2011 Author Posted May 5, 2011 If there were legal issues then they would have been resolved in the court. This case has been through many courts and judges. Any fundamental flaws would have been detected in the legal process. the holding up of Afzal guru's execution is due to political reasons, not legal reasons. The jihadi apologosts do not want to accept that
ravishingravi Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 The confession wouldn't carry over, I was speaking hypothetically. I know what you are getting at. I asked a criminal lawyer I know, and he said that if it were a case of tampered evidence/ inappropriate way of collating evidence etc, there would not have been a mercy petition, but the sentence would have been challenged. Why would Afzal's lawyers even talk about a mercy petition when they claim that Afzal is being framed. Doesn't sound right. And there would be ample bruhaha by the media over the entire thing. I tend to agree with him, at least for now. Even if he were tried in a regular (non POTA) court back then, he would have been found guilty. This seems to be a tight case. His mercy petition to the President included a confession ( but that may be a prerequisite for any such mercy petition). Pardoning of Nalini ( a co-conspirator in the Rajiv Gandhi case) has set a very bad precedent. But I will ask people who are in the know for more info on this. I promise you that. He was sentenced to death by SC. How can you challenge that unless it is a "question of law" ? By a writ, I m not sure
ganeshran Posted May 5, 2011 Posted May 5, 2011 No pardon for any terrorists whose crime has been proven. Regardless of religion or ideology :protest:
THX_1138 Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 He has been convicted but India does not have guts to carry on senetence. No legal issues just lack of balls does not take a lot of 'guts' to hang someone. it takes stronger conviction to not condemn the most hated of your enemies to death in retaliation because your refuse to deter from a stance where capital punishment is considered barbaric.
ganeshran Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 does not take a lot of 'guts' to hang someone. it takes stronger conviction to not condemn the most hated of your enemies to death in retaliation because your refuse to deter from a stance where capital punishment is considered barbaric. The Indian government has no stance that capital punishment is barbaric. The supreme court has ruled that the punishment is applicable in the rarest of rare cases and Afzal Guru's case is certainly one of them.
Sachin=GOD Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 You can hope for some action if and only if the near & dear ones or the politicians themselves get affected by any millitant activities..If Afzal Guru and his gang or Kasab and his gang has injured or killed any Politician or any relative(s) of them then things could've moved fast. In case of Kasab, he is the queue. So unless Afzal Guru is hanged and few others, he'll have to wait for his turn. So if Afzal Guru is not hanged/pardoned, nothing can be done about Kasab. Simple.. Mera Bharat Mahaan.. Afzal Guru attacked the Parliament of India - I'd say that can be included as "being affected by militant activities".
kabira Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 I don't understand if our judiciary has sentenced him for capital punishment. Why should president have any say for the mercy. The guy has been given fair trial, so why to make mockery of our judicial system. Just hang him and get over with it.
Sachin=GOD Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 As for Afzal Guru being alive, the reason is quite simple - vote bank politics.
Sachin=GOD Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 I don't understand if our judiciary has sentenced him for capital punishment. Why should president have any say for the mercy. The guy has been given fair trial' date= so why to make mockery of our judicial system. Just hang him and get over with it. I think most countries have this rule where a person can appeal to the President/head of state in case of Capital Punishment.
THX_1138 Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 As for Afzal Guru being alive' date=' the reason is quite simple - vote bank politics.[/quote'] oh please... use some brains for a change: how many votes are there to be gained by keeping this turd alive as opposed to the number who would turn against you if it can be demonstrated that you are being sympathetic to a convicted terrorist.
Stuge Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 oh please... use some brains for a change: how many votes are there to be gained by keeping this turd alive as opposed to the number who would turn against you if it can be demonstrated that you are being sympathetic to a convicted terrorist. you should join Indian politics then you will understand a lot of things . -it would have been simple if only A kind of people lived in India .We have A-B-C and then there is further divisions to it .
Stuge Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 One reason given for delayin his execution is that hanging him will result in an unprecedented uprising in Kashmir. ++ this is one of the reasons for not hanging him .
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