On the question of swagger

[Brainfade]

Give me any day the men who are all fire and no smoke*. Give me Allan Border, Sachin Tendulkar, Steve Waugh, Rahul Dravid, Virender Sehwag, Jacques Kallis - the men who go out and deliver with supreme, but quiet confidence, with nary a fuss, and from or about whom you don't hear a peep after they are done with their job. You can keep Chris Gayle, Vivian Richards, Javed Miandad, Arjuna Ranatunga and Graeme Smith. Give me Malcolm Marshall and Courtney Walsh - men who intimidated with their craft, not their stare. You can keep Ian Botham and Dennis Lillee. Give me Anil Kumble - fellow with a rock-solid heart who came out with a broken jaw to cut flamboyance (BCL) to size. Old-school, lunch-pail mentality. Good to get that off my chest :-). *-(to borrow a phrase from a CI headline)

[1983-2011]

what???

[Brainfade]

what???

elaborate?

[akshayxyz]

I would say, calmness of Sehwag (esp with the destruction he follows it up with) is more intimidating than showing-off confidence with whatever gestures/gait/mannerisms/swagger...

[1983-2011]

elaborate?

nothing! i get it now:--D

[Ram]

Disagree respectfully CA. :D I think we need a mix of both. Too much of one is not desirable, IMO. I just loved watching Dravid bat in his old-school style in the first test against the Windies, shining on a pitch where almost every other struggled. But i also love watching a Virender Sehwag smashing 195 on day 1 of a Boxing day Melbourne test. Whats life, without a little bit of variety?

[Brainfade]

Disagree respectfully CA. :D I think we need a mix of both. Too much of one is not desirable, IMO. I just loved watching Dravid bat in his old-school style in the first test against the Windies, shining on a pitch where almost every other struggled. But i also love watching a Virender Sehwag smashing 195 on day 1 of a Boxing day Melbourne test. Whats life, without a little bit of variety?

Variety of playing styles - absolutely yes. But the common thread? No swagger, no "I am the greatest" demeanor. Notice that my list above includes Sehwag, who has no overt swagger to speak of - he almost has an innocence about him.

[The Outsider]

Miandad had swagger? He was an irritating pest, yes, but swagger? Come on! Ranatunga?

[zen]

I think too much is being made about swagger, i.e. Warne is not Warne without it. Let's say someone says Warne is a best spinner around because of his skills and swagger. To me that statement is self-explainatory that the guy picking Warne is impressed by his skills (which he probably consideres as amongst the best in business) and on top of that the swagger. Now would it make sense if someone were to say 'oh, you don't need swagger to be considered the best. Look at Murali and Kumble' .... but that's missing the point as Warne has already been rated for his skills, the swagger only adds to that fact .... it's not swagger vs skill :winky:

[The Outsider]

Actually Warne is a good example where he has taken wickets just on the basis of his persona. Would he have been able to take 700 test wickets purely on the basis of his 'swagger'? Obviously not. But there have been times when the added strength of his personality has enabled him to psyche out batsmen and pick up wickets, none more so than in the '99 WC SF when he completely psyched out the South Africans.

[flamy]

Give me Vivian Richards any day. Just watched Fire in Babylon. Viv is bucketfuls of charisma :woot: As is Dhoni. :rock: I'm not against the non-swagger types, just to make clear :D

[zen]

Actually Warne is a good example where he has taken wickets just on the basis of his persona. Would he have been able to take 700 test wickets purely on the basis of his 'swagger'? Obviously not. But there have been times when the added strength of his personality has enabled him to psyche out batsmen and pick up wickets' date=' none more so than in the '99 WC SF when he completely psyched out the South Africans.[/quote'] If I am not wrong, the SA crowd used to go quite when Warne used to come in to bowl .... He had that effect on them

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[punjabi_khota]

Yeah, like SA need swagger from the opposition to choke

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[akshayxyz]

If I am not wrong' date=' the SA crowd used to go quite when Warne used to come in to bowl .... He had that effect on them[/quote'] If crowd response is one of the criteria/indicator - then lets see how many can come close to SRT. On one hand you cant stop laughing about SRT carrying burden of billion expectations, on other you are using crowd's response to Warne as a parameter to judge Warne's 'impact' on public / players' psyche.

[The Outsider]

Batsmen have admitted that they got psyched out by Warne's presence and lost their wickets as a result - not sure what other evidence would suffice for the psychological impact he had beyond pure skill, which of course was legendary. :dontknow:

[Lurker]

Give me any day the men who are all fire and no smoke*. Give me Allan Border' date=' Sachin Tendulkar, Steve Waugh, Rahul Dravid, Virender Sehwag, Jacques Kallis - the men who go out and deliver with supreme, but quiet confidence, with nary a fuss, and from or about whom you don't hear a peep after they are done with their job. You can keep Chris Gayle, Vivian Richards, Javed Miandad, Arjuna Ranatunga and Graeme Smith. Give me Malcolm Marshall and Courtney Walsh - men who intimidated with their craft, not their stare. You can keep Ian Botham and Dennis Lillee. Give me Anil Kumble - fellow with a rock-solid heart who came out with a broken jaw to cut flamboyance (BCL) to size. Old-school, lunch-pail mentality. Good to get that off my chest :-). *-(to borrow a phrase from a CI headline)

CA mate whatever happened to ya? First you compare Sohail with Richards and then put Ranatunga, Smith and Gayle lol..Miandad is probably the only one that can be mentioned in the same sentence but even Miandad would agree that he had no swagger. He was more of a street rowdy than anything. With regards to the bowlers the only name up there with a raging Swagger meter is Lillee and yeah he has taken a lot of wickets just by that. Many batsmen have lost the battle with Lillee just seeing him run with buttoned down shirt, running full steam from boundary lines and then coming straight at their head. Richards had the opposite effect. xxx

[zen]

If crowd response is one of the criteria/indicator - then lets see how many can come close to SRT. On one hand you cant stop laughing about SRT carrying burden of billion expectations, on other you are using crowd's response to Warne as a parameter to judge Warne's 'impact' on public / players' psyche.

Let's not over analyze stuff .... I m trying to tell a story from my memory where the entire stadium in SA used to get dead silent when Warney used to come in to bowl. Not implying anything apart from the fact that I haven't seen a crowd get so influenced by an opposition bowler Since you brought in Tendulkar into this, how has the entire stadium of the home country gone silent when Tendulkar walked in to bat thinking that he is going to destroy their team? What you are referring to is home support that Tendulkar gets from Indian fans. That's not apples to apples :winky:

[akshayxyz]

Let's not over analyze stuff .... I m trying to tell a story from my memory where the entire stadium in SA used to get dead silent when Warney used to come in to bowl. Not implying anything apart from the fact that I haven't seen a crowd get so influenced by an opposition bowler Since you brought in Tendulkar into this, how has the entire stadium of the home country gone silent when Tendulkar walked in to bat thinking that he is going to destroy their team? What you are referring to is home support that Tendulkar gets from Indian fans. That's not apples to apples :winky:

I am not surprised at your ignorant reply. Where did I say that going silent is the only way to express how much the crowd respects/fears a certain opponent. I will keep it short - going by the opposition team/crowd's reaction - even though Sehwag is perceived more intimidating, SRTs wicket is still more prized. Also there are many incidents of the dominant Aussie teams' & crowds' response to SRT taking the crease/getting out.