EnterTheVoid Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Testing of cosmetics products Experiments into behavior, like what happens to an animal psychologically after extended isolation (just a simple example) Experiments to study evolution and genetics of the specie. Now before you argue that these experiments help scientists get a step closer to tackling certain diseases, those kind of experiments come under a separate category. Plus, like Ganeshran said, many experiments are just repeats of those which have already been performed scores of times before And even for those experiments which are said to be essential, such as those with the aim of finding more information on stroke, the animals can be treated more humanely. There have been many whistleblowers claiming maltreatment of lab animals, that they weren't euthanized or given painkillers after surgery or were forcibly isolated in cages for extended periods without any stimuli. Not to mention the millions of animals that are dissected in schools and universities across the world. Of course you can argue that such dissection is necessary for the students to learn whatever they're learning but then I can argue that instead of using a real animal they can use a synthetic model. And there have been many bizarre experiments too. For instance there has been one where an elephant was administered a massive dose of LSD to see if it induces temporary madness. What did the scientists learn from the this? That LSD was fatal to elephants :hysterical: And before you ask for sources, let me point you to this shiny new thing called Google :winky: =-=-= Now before you think I'm one of those new-age hippy-types, my whole point was to show the double standards and hypocrisy of certain people really... Mate, you got your priorities upside down. Unnecessary cruelty to animals prior killing is exactly that, its unnecessary. Treatment of drugs on animals is a necessary evil unless you'd like to volunteer to become a human guinea pig and have all these vaccinations and drugs pumped into you. Btw, they test those drugs on animals that have genome that is close/comparable to humans so the animals they test it on are limited to a few species.
Desi Cartman Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 I have seen animals getting slaughtered, even if they are stunned or killed in one shot the muscles still keep moving. Have you heard "Running like a headless chicken" ? thats what happens so its all BS how you kill the animal.
EnterTheVoid Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 I have seen animals getting slaughtered' date=' even if they are stunned or killed in one shot the muscles still keep moving. Have you heard "Running like a headless chicken" ? thats what happens so its all BS how you kill the animal.[/quote'] Have you seen the 4 Corners documentary?
Desi Cartman Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Have you seen the 4 Corners documentary? I have seen Indian butcher-houses, and yes I have seen bits on Four Corner but it isnt too much if you have seen butcher kill an animal in-front of you
ganeshran Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_perception_(paranormal) When subjected to external trauma, animal cells display a physiological response which is considered an indicator of pain. A similar response is exhibited by the plant cell too. From the same article One of the first to research the concept was the Indian scientist Sir Jagdish Chandra Bose, who began to conduct experiments on plants in the year 1900. He found that every plant and every part of a plant appeared to have a sensitive nervous system and responded to shock by a spasm just as an animal muscle does. One visitor to his laboratory, the vegetarian playwright George Bernard Shaw, was intensely disturbed upon witnessing a demonstration in which a cabbage had violent convulsions as it boiled to death.[1] Bose found that the effect of manures, drugs, and poisons could be determined within minutes, providing plant control with a new precision. In addition, Bose found that plants grew more quickly amidst pleasant music and more slowly amidst loud noise or harsh sounds. He also claimed that plants can "feel pain, understand affection etc.," from the analysis of the nature of variation of the cell membrane potential of plants under different circumstances. According to him, a plant treated with care and affection gives out a different vibration compared to a plant subjected to torture. In conclusion, he said: "Do not these records tell us of some property of matter common and persistent? That there is no abrupt break, but a uniform and continuous march of law? A larger point would be that ethics cannot be debated on the feeling of pain alone. Like akshay said, an unconscious animal would not feel any pain either- but that doesn't change the ethics of killing it.
Mariyam Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 @ Ganeshran : could you please put a spoiler to those pics you've posted on the previous page. :(( What will Dutch Muslims do now? No halal meat for them. Haram meat is only allowed if ones life is threatened. What about the imported halal meat ? Is that banned as well? I don't think that import of Halal meat will be banned. The whole notion is against animal cruelty. Its not just Halal/Kosher which is cruel to the animals. If they are going to ban all such 'cruel' meat, they would have to ban a lot of stuff from being imported into Holland. Maybe even silk, as sericulture is cruel to the silkworm :P From my experience some years ago, on a Europe tour with my family, there was no problem getting Halal food in UK, France, Holland & Belgium. In Germany, Austria and Italy, Halal food was difficult to find. But we were with an Indian tour group and had no issues getting veg food. Besides, we aren't that strict about this anyways. I guess most Dutch Muslims will prefer eating Veg to non-halal meat or imported halal meat, which will be more expensive.
Mariyam Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 its there country they can do what they want' date='if people dont like it they should go back to there own country where they can eat what they want,hope the uk starts getting more strict and putting its foot down!!!!!![/quote'] Is it not the country of the Dutch Muslims and Dutch Jews?
EnterTheVoid Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 I don't understand the concept of 'ahimsa' in Hinduism as applied to animals. So many contradictions, best to become a vegetarian and get your proteins/vitmans through means other than meat.
Desi Cartman Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Ya n stop eating sugar too, I'm not sure if it's still common but till 10 years ago the mills used animal bones to clear sugar.
EnterTheVoid Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 LOL. Thats not in my control. I am serious. I just can't understand all the contradictions with vegetarianism and hinduism.
urbestfriend Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 LOL. Thats not in my control. I am serious. I just can't understand all the contradictions with vegetarianism and hinduism. By hinduism you mean Vedic dharma, there is no concept of ahimsa.. and there is no contradictions too...
akshayxyz Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 What will Dutch Muslims do now? No halal meat for them. Haram meat is only allowed if ones life is threatened. What about the imported halal meat ? Is that banned as well? Consider yourself threatened then ;) Seriously - I see no difference between halaal, non-halaal. As Mariyam said - with the law in place, only option Duth-muslims would have is to go veg, or import halaal. Or consider themselves threatened and eat whatever is available. I hope Dutch know what they are doing and this does not invoke any extremist reactions.
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