What is a heavy ball?

[Fontaine]

I can pretty much say all of the stuff posted so far is pretty much wrong. When I used to bowl the difference was clear and was taught to me in this way: 1. Swinging the ball: You release the ball from an arched wrist so that your hand/wrist is bent as far back as comfortable. Same when you release the ball so it comes out almost like it's floating out of your hand. So the ball comes out on a higher trajectory with a fuller length so the ball kisses the surface instead of hitting it hard. You cannot hit the deck with this wrist position. 2. Seaming or hitting the deck hard: For seam bowling or trying to get more bounce you straighten your wrist so it's not arched or bent back. So when you release the ball your actively pushing the ball down with your wrist and it comes on a much more downwards trajectory thus hitting the deck and losing less pace. That's the heavy ball.

[rkt.india]

Does Yadav bowl a heavy ball?

No. He is a skidder. Heavy ball mostly comes to tall bowlers who are quicker to batsmen than you think they are. The article DM posted in another thread that is more pertinent for heavy ball rather than pace. Another thing, heavy ball is mostly talked about the balls which are pitched shorter in length not fuller length. On such deliveries, a bowler who bowls heavy ball will lose less pace after pitching than any other bowler. This mostly comes to the bowlers who are tall and have high arm actions. The higher the release point is, the higher the gravitational force the ball will have on it and the ball will hit on the deck harder than other bowlers will do.

[thongale]

Action also plays a part. A bowler who hits the seam has a more chance to bowl a heavy ball. The classic example I can think of is Brian McMillian of South Africa. Scary with the sound he hit the bat, yet looked pedestrian compared to Donal, Schultz or deVilliers.

[Fontaine]

No. He is a skidder. Heavy ball mostly comes to tall bowlers who are quicker to batsmen than you think they are. The article DM posted in another thread that is more pertinent for heavy ball rather than pace. Another thing' date=' heavy ball is mostly talked about the balls which are pitched shorter in length not fuller length. [b']On such deliveries, a bowler who bowls heavy ball will lose less pace after pitching than any other bowler. This mostly comes to the bowlers who are tall and have high arm actions. The higher the release point is, the higher the gravitational force the ball will have on it and the ball will hit on the deck harder than other bowlers will do.

No, you're dumbing it down too much. Release points don't matter as much as trajectory. A tall fast bowler trying to swing the ball is not going to hit the deck hard because of the trajectory at release point. Case in point: Matthew Hoggard/Peter Siddle are both 6 feet 2 with similar high arm actions. Except one is more of a hit the deck bowler and the other is mostly a swing bowler who kisses the surface. Also the pitch plays a huge part. On some pitches it doesn't matter how hard you hit the deck because the pitch will absorb so much of the force that the ball loses nip and barely rises above your waist. Ryan Harris is another extreme example of a guy who's short, just 5'10 and is classified as a hit the deck bowler who doesn't lose pace to the batsmen, again, because of this wrist position and trajectory of the ball coming out.

[carnish]

I remember Klusener with not much of a high arm action used to bowl lots of heavy balls.

[Fontaine]

Here's what I'm talking about. Jimmy Anderson, well over 6 feet bowling with a cocked wrist (generally) with a loose finger grip on the ball will release the ball from a higher delivery point but with a "floating" trajectory -> kissing the surface trying to swing. Ryan Harris, well under 6 feet, with a bent knee at release with a much, much lower release point bowls (generally) with a straight wrist, much tigher finger grip on the ball and releases the ball sharply on a direct downward trajectory and hits the deck -> heavy ball trying to seam. Good bowlers will try and do both, depending on the pitch, conditions, batsmen, and dumb commentators in general completely simplify a bowlers style to what's he's bowling at any point in time. I've seen Harris pitch the ball fuller, looking for swing, just like I've seen Anderson bowl on a shorter lenght (badly) trying to seam it.

[akshayxyz]

No. He is a skidder. Heavy ball mostly comes to tall bowlers who are quicker to batsmen than you think they are. The article DM posted in another thread that is more pertinent for heavy ball rather than pace. Another thing' date=' heavy ball is mostly talked about the balls which are pitched shorter in length not fuller length. On such deliveries, a bowler who bowls heavy ball will lose less pace after pitching than any other bowler. This mostly comes to the bowlers who are tall and have high arm actions. T[b']he higher the release point is, the higher the gravitational force the ball will have on it and the ball will hit on the deck harder than other bowlers will do.

[adi B]

^ seriously :hysterical: ..it`ll remain the same

[The Outsider]

No, you're dumbing it down too much. Release points don't matter as much as trajectory. A tall fast bowler trying to swing the ball is not going to hit the deck hard because of the trajectory at release point. Case in point: Matthew Hoggard/Peter Siddle are both 6 feet 2 with similar high arm actions. Except one is more of a hit the deck bowler and the other is mostly a swing bowler who kisses the surface. Also the pitch plays a huge part. On some pitches it doesn't matter how hard you hit the deck because the pitch will absorb so much of the force that the ball loses nip and barely rises above your waist. Ryan Harris is another extreme example of a guy who's short, just 5'10 and is classified as a hit the deck bowler who doesn't lose pace to the batsmen, again, because of this wrist position and trajectory of the ball coming out.

This and other posts in the thread by Fontaine are the best and most accurate ones. :nice:

[Sooda]

Fontaines posts on fast bowling are always interesting to read

[Crookbond]

Fontaine - Good posts! :nice: Can you please also comment on the other thread and settle the topic? http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=302264

[rkt.india]

No, you're dumbing it down too much. Release points don't matter as much as trajectory. A tall fast bowler trying to swing the ball is not going to hit the deck hard because of the trajectory at release point. Case in point: Matthew Hoggard/Peter Siddle are both 6 feet 2 with similar high arm actions. Except one is more of a hit the deck bowler and the other is mostly a swing bowler who kisses the surface. Also the pitch plays a huge part. On some pitches it doesn't matter how hard you hit the deck because the pitch will absorb so much of the force that the ball loses nip and barely rises above your waist. Ryan Harris is another extreme example of a guy who's short, just 5'10 and is classified as a hit the deck bowler who doesn't lose pace to the batsmen, again, because of this wrist position and trajectory of the ball coming out.

Wrist positions and trajectory are mutual and you will have to hit the deck for that because a swing bowler will not hit the deck hard. There are two type of grips swing bowlers like Steyn and Anderson or PK and BK, they release the ball with soft grip and cocked wrist. Hit the deck bowler like Harris keeps the wrist straight but they do one more thing other than that. You must have watched McGrath. He whacks his wrist in the direction of the ball with force to get more impetus. Harris does the same. I didn't mention all these things because they are mutual and are necessary things to get that heavy ball effect. I did not say it cannot happen with short bowlers but it is mostly the case with tall bowlers who when even bowl at 130-135k feels quicker to the batsmen.

[rkt.india]

You did not understand what I wanted to say. I know gravitational force is same but will you have same effect if you fall from one story building and if you fall from two story building but more the height you fall, more the pace you will gather while falling and add to that the intentional force put by the bowler behind the ball.

[rkt.india]

Fontaine - Good posts! :nice: Can you please also comment on the other thread and settle the topic? http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=302264

Harris' example given by Fontaine again flaunts doubts on this theory because he is a short bowler and then author did not provide any numbers to prove how much a difference this method made in speed.

[Fontaine]

Wrist positions and trajectory are mutual and you will have to hit the deck for that because a swing bowler will not hit the deck hard. There are two type of grips swing bowlers like Steyn and Anderson or PK and BK' date=' they release the ball with soft grip and cocked wrist. Hit the deck bowler like Harris keeps the wrist straight but they do one more thing other than that. You must have watched McGrath. He whacks his wrist in the direction of the ball with force to get more impetus. Harris does the same. I didn't mention all these things because they are mutual and are necessary things to get that heavy ball effect. I did not say it cannot happen with short bowlers but it is mostly the case with tall bowlers who when even bowl at 130-135k feels quicker to the batsmen.[/quote'] Yes they are mutual but not entirely clear to many folks so just laying it out here (not saying you were wrong).

[Fontaine]

Fontaine - Good posts! :nice: Can you please also comment on the other thread and settle the topic? http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=302264

Nothing to settle. Bowlers are NOT static in their wrist position, release points or even front feet. It's always dangerous to generalise about international bowlers because so much of what they do is about adapting to conditions, changing lengths, changing fitness and wear and tear.

[Fontaine]

Wrist positions and trajectory are mutual and you will have to hit the deck for that because a swing bowler will not hit the deck hard. There are two type of grips swing bowlers like Steyn and Anderson or PK and BK' date=' they release the ball with soft grip and cocked wrist. [b']Hit the deck bowler like Harris keeps the wrist straight but they do one more thing other than that. You must have watched McGrath. He whacks his wrist in the direction of the ball with force to get more impetus. Harris does the same. I didn't mention all these things because they are mutual and are necessary things to get that heavy ball effect. I did not say it cannot happen with short bowlers but it is mostly the case with tall bowlers who when even bowl at 130-135k feels quicker to the batsmen.

It depends. Some bowlers like Stuart Clark/Broad change the way they try to hit the deck, or whack the wrist as you say. If you're fingers are on the Seam to really push a straight seam then yes you can and should push your wrist down. If you're trying to wobble the seam (which more and more bowlers try to do), you position your fingers on either side of the seam and push your fingers (not wrist) on the ball so it wobbles and can seam either way. I haven't watched McGrath enough to say, but I have watched guys like Clark/Broad who do this and so does Ishant, and people falsely criticize him and say he can't keep the seam straight.

[twww]

I tend to think of heavy ball bowlers as generally having a very strong shoulder action- someone like Chris Tremlett or Tim Bresnan are recent examples who hit the deck with a very strong action as opposed to a Stuart Broad who is more of an arm bowler, skidding on and kissing the seam.

[Fontaine]

I tend to think of heavy ball bowlers as generally having a very strong shoulder action- someone like Chris Tremlett or Tim Bresnan are recent examples who hit the deck with a very strong action as opposed to a Stuart Broad who is more of an arm bowler' date=' skidding on and kissing the seam.[/quote'] There's no such thing as a shoulder action. It's the ball the socket joint through your arm that rotates, not the shoulder. Arm rotation (or how quickly you rotate your arm) through the bowling arc is what generates speed along with other things.

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

the one which Panesar pisses on