maniac Posted August 27, 2011 Posted August 27, 2011 With all the momentum that has been gained due to Anna vs and the mass hysteria this has generated...How ready are you to face the radical changes Well sitting in the U.S I am proud of this moment and really happy for my country:isalute: but how ready am I for any changes that will take place....The stuff below I have done most of my adult life,what will happen if the Lokpalbill is just a start and will lead to all kind of crusades in India For eg;I used to hate standing in lines for booking my train tickets and when i didn't get reservation I used to think chalta hai...I will bribe the TT and get the berth...How convinient I can try to use influence or bribe to try and get the number I want while registering my vehicle...Will I no longer be able to do things like that... I will drive without a helmet bcoz it will ruin my hair or without a seatbelt...will I not be able to get away with it now ??? The question we need to ask is are people ready for a change in the system because we are fine tuned in a certain way and we have developed our own convinience in a messed up system. With most of the posters on ICF who either seem to be NRI's or people from affluent families...I am asking this question as a middle-uppermiddle class guy Have you ever broken the traffic signal? Have you ever peed in a place were you are not supposed to? Have you ever spat pan or Guthka or smoked in a public place? Have you ever paid a bribe to just ease out of a situation? Have you ever looked at a fellow indian with distrust even though it looked like he was trying to do something good? Was your ambition ever to work abroad as you didn't want to live in India anymore as you thought you would lead a comfortable lifestyle? Did you laugh at someone because his English was bad? Did you make fun of someone because he was not fashionably dressed? Did you sterotype Punjabis,All south Indians(despite having 4 seperate states,different cultures,cusinies and traditions),Muslims,Sardars,Anglo Indians,Gujjus etc etc? The reason for this question is I am glad people support this moment but being a cynic I was not a good citizen and I am scared I won't be able to handle the change even if it is for the good.
jf1gp_1 Posted August 27, 2011 Posted August 27, 2011 no we arent nor will the change come this easy; we need a good couple of decades to truly see an impact
urbestfriend Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Good one Maniac, it is time for all of us Indians living in India to introspect and change our way for the better India :good:
bulbul Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 I am regulerly follows most of the things....still have to improve on some other thins.. Have one friend who never throws chocolate wrappers or any other plastics out and keep it with him and dump later in waste bin..i used to laugh at him every time he does that..i will stop laughing from now on... But i am not so sure about drastic chnges in society...evrything will be forgotten after 2 weeks.. Still let us try as individual as much possible
NareshK Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 None of these things will change if there is a lokpal bill or not. The problem is in the mindset of people itself. Till that changes, nothing will change even if a million more bills get passed.
nballa Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 NO, the last time i tried not bribing in india i ended up waiting 2 years for a birth certificate. its time to take a stand and put a foot down on the anti corruption activists.
asterix Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 I think 'Top-Down' approach will be a good begining..Huge corruption at the top level and black money creates effects which ripples down the society and everybody end up paying for it. Then to compensate that the lower level start to become corrupt. So I would really like to see big thieves caught and stop the drain at the top...
Vijay.Sharma Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Change comes from within. I have been changing for years now on somethings and have paid the penalty where I haven't. I am very much already in it so the change ain't a big thing for me. If the change comes from within i.e. proactively initiated by self then it is not exactly a difficult thing to do. If it is forced upon you by the environment then all the inertia comes in and you begin to "feel" the impact of change. Don't wait for the environment to force a change in you, instead you be the one to change the environment that way you will be leading the change.
asterix Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Look, nno matter how much yiou change 'within' if the system doesn't changes, your situation will not change.. For example, as a NRI, I can do nothing about how the employees of Indian Emabssies and Consulates function..Even if we don't like the way things work there (I'm taking this example because you get a snapshot of how things work in India, in these consulates, while you live in a more efficient, disciplined and just society), you can't do much. You can complain to the High Commissioner and Govt. of India as much as you like, but unless the system changes, you are hoping against hope.
Blue Panther Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Implementation of powerful laws like jan lokpal's life term for corruption can slowly change the mindset of the people.
Vijay.Sharma Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Look, nno matter how much yiou change 'within' if the system doesn't changes, your situation will not change.. For example, as a NRI, I can do nothing about how the employees of Indian Emabssies and Consulates function..Even if we don't like the way things work there (I'm taking this example because you get a snapshot of how things work in India, in these consulates, while you live in a more efficient, disciplined and just society), you can't do much. You can complain to the High Commissioner and Govt. of India as much as you like, but unless the system changes, you are hoping against hope.The idea is to be proactive in changing the self on things that are directly under your control. Things that are not in your control, you cannot change them but what you can do is that you can ensure that you don't add to the mess. The Lokpal is a tool to help you in influencing government fellows' behavior. Now if the Govt sez that it takes 5 days for them to issue you a visa and if you do not get it in 5 days then you have every right to invoke the citizen charter bit from the Lokpal to ensure the offender gets punished (in fact now you can also get compensation from the offender's pocket where applicable). But the question is, will you offer a bribe to the official to expedite the process whose SLA is 5 days? That is what we mean by "will you change?". Most government tasks have an SLA. If you are not ready to respect the SLA and try to expedite things for yourself by bribes then it is not acceptable - that is what the question is all about - will you stop bribing to expedite the process (and I am not talking about exceptions, for ex - death in family u need a visa in a day - the govt already has SLAs even for such exceptional situations and u will get your visa within 1 day. But will you ensure that you will not file your visa application in 'urgent' category when truly your reason does not come under any of the already stated 'urgent' categories?). What you can control, will you control? - that is the question.
Rahul Dravid Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 those are habbits that are hard to change.. but if everyone just attempts to change those things and becomes more self-aware... things can change for the better.
kabira Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 NO, the last time i tried not bribing in india i ended up waiting 2 years for a birth certificate. its time to take a stand and put a foot down on the anti corruption activists. when was that?? Don't you know RTI?? I got my birthday certificate in 2 weeks.
kabira Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 If you have read Lokpal Bill (Civil Society version) its very comprehensive. People have been using RTI to get things done, Once this lokpal bill is passed, I expect lower level bureucrats, policemen to stop asking for bribes. One of the things that Lokpal bill suggests each government department will come out with citizens charter and they will list how long each thing will take. If any employee takes longer than that, they will be charged for corruption, you don't need proof. Slowly things will change, will take time, but they will change. People have to carry responsibility. One thing I hate is when you go for your home/plot/flat registration to registrar office atleast here, lawyer fees includes bribe of 200 Rs to the registrar and his two assitants..LOL, thats funny isnt..You don't even know you were part of corruption.
Yoda-esque Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 No.We are too immature a country as yet.Will take another 50-60 years possibly.
Vijay.Sharma Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 I think the intent of this thread is not just about what you think others will do. The question is, will you change? Forget about whether your neighbor changes or not. Will you change? My answer is - I will (in fact I have been in the last few years) Sidhoni's answer is "Yes" Bihutoli is "Yes" Rahul Dravid seems like a "yes" to me Others?
maniac Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 I think the intent of this thread is not just about what you think others will do. The question is' date=' will [i']you change? Forget about whether your neighbor changes or not. Will you change? My answer is - I will (in fact I have been in the last few years) Sidhoni's answer is "Yes" Bihutoli is "Yes" Rahul Dravid seems like a "yes" to me Others? Vijay,All I was trying to say is that If somebody was already a good citizen,he doesn't need the Jan Lokpal bill to change. If any of the posters have said that they will make a change all of a sudden because there are some changes being brought into the system than that is worrisome to think how many other people think the same way because once ideal or inspirational leaders like say Anna Hazare or Kiran Bedi are not in the forefront it might get even worse than what it is now. I would be happy for my kids who will see a new India and I will be proud when I can tell them stories of how India has evolved but I don't see myself being thrilled about standing in queues or not being able to expedite some processes to which I have been used to for the first 25 years of my life.
Vijay.Sharma Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 Vijay,All I was trying to say is that If somebody was already a good citizen,he doesn't need the Jan Lokpal bill to change. If any of the posters have said that they will make a change all of a sudden because there are some changes being brought into the system than that is worrisome to think how many other people think the same way because once ideal or inspirational leaders like say Anna Hazare or Kiran Bedi are not in the forefront it might get even worse than what it is now. I would be happy for my kids who will see a new India and I will be proud when I can tell them stories of how India has evolved but I don't see myself being thrilled about standing in queues or not being able to expedite some processes to which I have been used to for the first 25 years of my life.That's a very nice and honest way of putting it. Please don't misunderstood my stress on what the self should do as some kinda judging act. But how do children learn if their parents themselves bribe? As the OP, others, and even you say here, it is pretty difficult to leggo off deep rooted behaviorisms. But we must start some where some time if we want things to be fair for our kids
Recommended Posts