Where do your loyalties lie, NRIs?

[Vijay.Sharma]

Last night, me and a friend were having a heated argument on the relative ethical value of supporting India when you are a citizen of England. He said, "yeh chewthiye log udhar jaa ke, unke country mein citizen ban ke usee country ke khilaf kyu hote hai?" I tried dismsissing him off saying "yaar it's just a game, kayko seriously le ra?". The he asked me how I would feel watching a Bangladeshi immigrant wave his national flag when India plays Bangles. I said, if it is Bangles, hell I'll support them over India coz they are underdogs. Anyway he brought me back to the main point. And I reasoned that even if I happened to become a citizen of some other country, there is no way I would support any other country over India because I was born here and have spent 34 years in this country and it's part of my identity. Then he said, "I ain't talking about someone like us...I am talking about the second generations or third generation fellows who are basically born there and/or brought up there completely...have those Amreeki and Brit accents, etc" I reasoned that only some of them who are like ABCDs will support India but most of them will be American / Brit / whateva country supporter. Of course I am not well informed about the phenomenon but I promised to get an answer for him by asking u guys here. Your thoughts and allegiances, pls...

[coffee_rules]

May be among First gen immigrants only. 2nd gen don't feel that way.

[Mariyam]

I feel your friend's example with Bangladeshi immigrants is not really apt. Most of the Bangladeshi immigrants in India are illegal. They are not accorded (at least officially) any rights that a citizen of this country has. In contrast, the Indians in Britain are bona fide citizens of that country. So, thats why the thought process of a Bangladeshi immigrant in India and an Indian immigrant in the UK may not even be comparable. An example on similar lines are the Iranian immigrants in the USA. They are quite unlike the Indian immigrants in the UK. The Iranian immigrants are very much anti Iranian regime (almost all that I met/spoke to) and pro USA. They'd be ( if I can generalize) pro their adopted homeland in most cases, even if it is against their erstwhile homeland.

[Vijay.Sharma]

^^ Pls ignore the example and focus on the question. Our conversation not only spoke about Bangladeshi supporters but also about the many Muslim supporters he comes across who burn crackers when Pakistan beats India and that his blood boils when he sees that happening (by the way he is a Muslim too). He also gave the example of Tom Alter...per him, Tom Alter is as Indian as an Indian can be and he asked me, "would you like it if Tom Alter supports England when they play against us?". I was like "what difference does it make?" So, you see the question really is not about the behavior of others on Indian shores, rather the behavior of Indian ethnic fellows overseas.

[Mariyam]

I'm not an NRI or overseas or PIO or ABCD or Freddy Mercury. That question is not for me to answer. Best answered by those who are in such a situation.

[punjabi_khota]

If I settle down in US, I would make sure my kids support India. It would be enforced by a combination of candy bribes, grounding and ass-kicking, as and when appropriate. I will also call them ABCDs when in bad mood.

[Ram]

My allegiences, in ascending order; Liberal left-wing, pot smoking, vegetarian, tree-hugging, Islam loving, communistical, pseud-secular, Unbeliever/Loon >>> Madraasi >> South Indian >> Rajni fan>>Dosa &Sambar fan>>> Jon Stewart fan ….>>’I-love-Maggie’ fan >> Pakistan hater>> Indian.

[akshayxyz]

There should be another option. As personally I am not patriotic about any particular country.. Jiska jitna namak khaao, utni proportionately loyality bhi nibhao...

[Sooda]

My allegiences, in ascending order; Liberal left-wing, pot smoking, vegetarian, tree-hugging, Islam loving, communistical, pseud-secular, Unbeliever/Loon >>> Madraasi >> South Indian >> Rajni fan>>Dosa &Sambar fan>>> Jon Stewart fan ?>>ê-love-Maggie fan >> Pakistan hater>> Indian.

:cantstop: More to the point, as British Asian who supports India I cant say I really know why I do so. Maybe Iv been brought up in a household that does. Maybe they are simply better/more exciting players (or kind of were anyway). Does it mean I am any less British than a white England supporter. No. I contribute just as much if not more to this country. I go to India, or have been, a few times- believe me it is a foreign country to me. Patriotism/nationalism is a load of dollocks anyway, just look at Pieterson. As for your reasoning Vijay that 'most of them will be American / Brit / whateva country supporter' I can tell you that that is seriously untrue. Especially so amongst Pakistani origin Brits Check this thread out http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=268645&highlight=Sinha A quote from Brit Asian comedian Paul Sinha - it is not most British Asians who support India when the play England, it is ALL of them. (words to that effect)

[yoda]

More than people supporting India when they are UK citizens, what I find weird is Pure Indians back home being annoyed by NRIs supporting India in something as trivial as sports. The only serious conflicts arise in cases of war or matters of concern to state. What next? How can NRIs eat Tandoori Roti or Sambar instead of just eating Beef Jerkeys and Steak?

[ganeshran]

^^^ Please dont ask him to add more poll options

[Vijay.Sharma]

I'm not an NRI or overseas or PIO or ABCD or Freddy Mercury. That question is not for me to answer. Best answered by those who are in such a situation.

You sure you wanna leave out Tony Kanal, Pandit Ravishankar from that list?

[Vijay.Sharma]

^^^ Please dont ask him to add more poll options

LOL! Good point :haha:

[Sooda]

More than people supporting India when they are UK citizens, what I find weird is Pure Indians back home being annoyed by NRIs supporting India in something as trivial as sports.

Yeah, you'd think loyalty to country of origin would please them :hmmm:

[yoda]

Yeah' date=' you'd think loyalty to country of origin would please them :hmmm:[/quote'] I think many of them just hate NRIs, either cause of the stereotyping which is done in movies or based on their own personal bad experience with relatives. This sport thing is probably just another angle to the whole feck-these-bozos-who-left-their-country-for-money attitude.

[Vijay.Sharma]

Yeah' date=' you'd think loyalty to country of origin would please them :hmmm:[/quote']True! Actually I was surprised about the reaction of my friend. But maybe he was inflicted by the double standards he grew up around. Personally, I am more like Akshay...couldn't care lesser for national loyalty. But I confess I take great pride in the Indian civilization...so my loyalty is to our civilization. I was arguing with him that he (basically Mallu) was living in Hyderabad. He lived in Delhi, Pune and in Bangalore...so I asked him why the eff do you support RCB when you are living in Hyderabad for 8 yrs? He's like "nahi yaar, I am talking about national loyalty" and all that lavada lasoon

[Mariyam]

There should be another option. As personally I am not patriotic about any particular country.. Jiska jitna namak khaao, utni proportionately loyality bhi nibhao...

[dramatic mode] Begheirat!!! Besharmi ki bhi hadd hoti hai :mad: :whack:[/dramatic mode] :P How can loyalty be proportionate? What is this, maths class??? I think this is one of those rare black-white situations where no grey exists. In your views a person whom the country can't provide much to shouldn't be as 'patriotic/loyal' as the person who is better placed? On the basis of my observations, its often the ones who've had to struggle the most who end up being more attached. Maybe a direct relation between loyalty and hardship. Would you extend this to parents? A child whose parents can't provide him/her with much should love (a manifestation of loyalty) his parents lesser than a child whose parents can provide him/her with a lot? Somehow, your views don't resonate very well with me. :((

[Vijay.Sharma]

I think many of them just hate NRIs' date=' either cause of the stereotyping which is done in movies or based on their own personal bad experience with relatives. This sport thing is probably just another angle to the whole feck-these-bozos-who-left-their-country-for-money attitude.[/quote']That would have been the case up until the 90s but not now dude. These days it is the other way around...the argument is more like 'you were not good enough to find a job here so you ran away to the gulf or europe or usa to work in a petrol pump'. But both forms are stereotyping. However, I think there is something about our cultural and civilizational ethos that somehow never severs our roots in spite of many generations living abroad. Of course I am only guessing that...but do you guys feel some such connection? For ex - a German in SA or US dunn feel a great connection to Germany or wants to know more about Deutschland (me ex was half Deutsch half Irish and didn't feel any great connection with the two countries. Her celtic stuff was more fashion inspired). I guess we notice the same kinda connection with the roots even among the chinks and habibis.

[Vijay.Sharma]

[dramatic mode] Begheirat!!! Besharmi ki bhi hadd hoti hai :mad: :whack:[/dramatic mode] :P How can loyalty be proportionate? What is this, maths class??? I think this is one of those rare black-white situations where no grey exists.

Actually Mariyam, gray exists even in this case. And shades of gray are more prevalent than black or white. If you really try to understand this human psychological thingy you will realize why I stress so much on the four variables: time, space, perspective, context. Sorry, I know you don't like it when it is mentioned but I thought this was an apt situation to mention it so you'd appreciate that it has more meaning than previously thought.

In your views a person whom the country can't provide much to shouldn't be as 'patriotic' as the person who is better placed? On the basis of my observations, its often the ones who've had to struggle the most who end up being more attached. Maybe a direct relation between patriotic bonds and hardship.

You mean the harder you work, the more strong the bond? That somehow goes against general observation. best example - Kashmir, another one Tamils in SL, some North Eastern states of India.

Would you extend this to parents? A child whose parents can't provide him/her with much should love his parents lesser than a child whose parents can provide him/her with a lot?

t, s, p, c again....ok don't bang that chair on me now...lol!

[yoda]

However, I think there is something about our cultural and civilizational ethos that somehow never severs our roots in spite of many generations living abroad. Of course I am only guessing that...but do you guys feel some such connection?

I can't speak for how things will be if a family lived many generations abroad especially if they don't know/have many relatives back in India. If you still have roots back home and are in touch with them and visit India, even if not very often, the connection will always be there.