Manmohan Singh surprises everyone

[gs]

MMS in his infinite wisdom has decided to support Palestine and disrespect a trusted ally like Israel. I understand Nehru doing it -- those times were different. Apart from some minority votes I cant think of anything else that this would accomplish!

[yoda]

Supporting Palestinians for their own state is the correct thing to do, irrespective of whether it brings in votes or not. I am proud of India's stance, the only concern being how much it antagonizes Israel. Clarke's theory sounds interesting, but I doubt we are that good with playing these games.

[Ram]

Why do we have to view EVERYTHING thru the prism of vote-bank politics? Every once in a while, principle dictates positions as well.

[CSK Fan]

As I said..UP elections are near. This is a tried and tested strategy by Kangress..It works like a charm.. Kangress badly needs en-masse minority votes this time as there's a real danger of it getting kicked out due to Corruption issues.

Mariyam and Ram have adressed this very well. Your comment does not make any sense whatsoever. 1) How many Indian voters know about/think of palestine issue as being important enough to influence votes? Dunno why the common assumption is that the Indian voters are complete sheeps with their heads in the clouds. As one can see from historical trends, its the local issues which influence the voters, not some idealogical stance. So oil prices, inflation, corruption and local state politics is going to play the major part and not something happening in a foreign country. This is the biggest mistake BJP has made till now, when it didnt recognise this before the last election. 2) Hasn't India's stance always been pro-palestine in this regard? I would understand if there was a sudden change in the stance, but that not the case here

[Alchemist]

:haha: Really? Indian Muslims vote for those governments that are pro-Palestine in their outlook? And pray, what % of Indian Muslims are even aware of the Palestine-Israeli conflict and India's stand on it? Sometimes, you know, our leaders maybe smarter than you give them credit for. Maybe Dr.MMS and his team have some thinking and/or agreement behind this.

That thinking is next election.

[ravishingravi]

Mariyam and Ram have adressed this very well. Your comment does not make any sense whatsoever. 1) How many Indian voters know about/think of palestine issue as being important enough to influence votes? Dunno why the common assumption is that the Indian voters are complete sheeps with their heads in the clouds. As one can see from historical trends, its the local issues which influence the voters, not some idealogical stance. So oil prices, inflation, corruption and local state politics is going to play the major part and not something happening in a foreign country. This is the biggest mistake BJP has made till now, when it didnt recognise this before the last election. 2) Hasn't India's stance always been pro-palestine in this regard? I would understand if there was a sudden change in the stance, but that not the case here

Really !! Now this is the second person on this thread to say it. Pls. clarfy this for me. How has India ever been pro Palestine ? And what is Palestine's position on India vis a vis the muslims and of course Kashmir. Btw supporting seperate state of Palestine doesn't qualify as pro Palestine by itself. That is Israel's position too. The question of support comes up on the details for that separate state.

[Sarkar]

Appease whom? The Palestinians? They vote in the Indian general elections?

Appeasing Indian Muslims who are concerned about their muslim brothers in palestine Israel always offered India support but these idiots work for vote bank rather than strong govt.

[Sarkar]

I support Israel atleast they have balls to fight back

[punjabi_khota]

I support Israel atleast they have balls to fight back

You like balls ? :giggle:

[ganeshran]

^ :cantstop:

[Sarkar]

You like balls ? :giggle:

There is other meaning for balls which means standing up now dont talk in double meaning :two_thumbs_up:

[Lurker]

Really !! Now this is the second person on this thread to say it. Pls. clarfy this for me. How has India ever been pro Palestine ? And what is Palestine's position on India vis a vis the muslims and of course Kashmir. Btw supporting seperate state of Palestine doesn't qualify as pro Palestine by itself. That is Israel's position too. The question of support comes up on the details for that separate state.

Amongst other things India allowed full diplomatic relationship with Israel as late as 1992. On the other hand India was the first non-Arab country to recognize PLO in early 70s, me thinks, and had full diplomatic relations with them since. With regards to Palestine's position with India, it depends on who you ask and how far back you wanna go. Unlike India, Palestine has many players in powers not all of which have been India's friend. But top leaders like Yasser Arafat, perhaps their topmost leader ever, loved India and loathed Pakistan. Arafat was our best friend in 70s and 80s and remains the only person that came close to getting the news about Indira Gandhi's imminent assasination. Depending on which account you read he did inform India agencies hours before it happened but too late. You may find some pictures online of him openly crying at her death. With regards to Israel it has become the biggest problem child for USA. Ordinary Americans are also wondering why US supports two-nation theory and still vetoeing Palestine move at UN, atleast India's position is consistent with its 50-60 year policy of two state. xxx PS: Whats with the sensationalist headline Ravish? This is India's stance not MMS. Didnt India go after Israel even in 2007-08 in their skirmish against Hamas back then for "excessive force"?

[kabira]

India has alwasy been on both sides LOL, kind of neutral. And I think we will stay the same

[ravishingravi]

Amongst other things India allowed full diplomatic relationship with Israel as late as 1992. On the other hand India was the first non-Arab country to recognize PLO in early 70s, me thinks, and had full diplomatic relations with them since. With regards to Palestine's position with India, it depends on who you ask and how far back you wanna go. Unlike India, Palestine has many players in powers not all of which have been India's friend. But top leaders like Yasser Arafat, perhaps their topmost leader ever, loved India and loathed Pakistan. Arafat was our best friend in 70s and 80s and remains the only person that came close to getting the news about Indira Gandhi's imminent assasination. Depending on which account you read he did inform India agencies hours before it happened but too late. You may find some pictures online of him openly crying at her death. With regards to Israel it has become the biggest problem child for USA. Ordinary Americans are also wondering why US supports two-nation theory and still vetoeing Palestine move at UN, atleast India's position is consistent with its 50-60 year policy of two state. xxx PS: Whats with the sensationalist headline Ravish? This is India's stance not MMS. Didnt India go after Israel even in 2007-08 in their skirmish against Hamas back then for "excessive force"?

Yeah well what can you do. I think I have been watching too much of Aaj Tak recently. Either ways I was only reflecting th eresponse I got from the media and those around me. As for the question I raised, it still remains unanswered to me. Sure, India and Palestine were never mortal enemies. And I am aware of Arafat's equation with Indira. But not sure India ever took a "pro Palestine" position in this conflict. And yes it was MMS on the podium and he speaks for India. So as an Indian I don't know why mentioning him instead of India would be a cause for concern. PS. I actually am not against the decisionl.

[Lurker]

Yeah well what can you do. I think I have been watching too much of Aaj Tak recently. Either ways I was only reflecting th eresponse I got from the media and those around me. As for the question I raised' date=' it still remains unanswered to me. Sure, India and Palestine were never mortal enemies. And I am aware of Arafat's equation with Indira. But not sure India ever took a "pro Palestine" position in this conflict. And yes it was MMS on the podium and he speaks for India. So as an Indian [b']I don't know why mentioning him instead of India would be a cause for concern. PS. I actually am not against the decisionl.

Because it changes the discussion from strategic to political. It is one thing to argue for/against India's stance on Palestine-Israel conflict and dissect the reasons behind it, completely different to watch it take the political route of "so and so is doing this with an eye on election/vote bank", which is what has happend here. It changes the discourse, doesnt it? With regards to your question why do you think it remains unanswered? Any particular thing you were looking to be answered?

[ravishingravi]

Because it changes the discussion from strategic to political. It is one thing to argue for/against India's stance on Palestine-Israel conflict and dissect the reasons behind it' date= completely different to watch it take the political route of "so and so is doing this with an eye on election/vote bank", which is what has happend here. It changes the discourse, doesnt it? With regards to your question why do you think it remains unanswered? Any particular thing you were looking to be answered?

That maybe your interpretation of it and it is your privelege. For me those two elements are not separate at best of times. Plus if it MMS's speech, it is MMS's speech, not India's. Yes he does represent India. Maybe you were prejudging my intentions for that headline. If you had bothered to read the thread, I have discarded the vote bank aspect suggested by some in relation to this issue. So, sensationalism if any is in the eyes of the beholder, certainly not me. I ll leave it at that. As for the second point, like I mentioned earlier, India has and have always had a very general opaque diplomatic position on the issue like most nations. Pretty much like most of the world till maybe last 5 years had on Ind-Pak conflict. I don't believe India ever committed on the specifics of the conflict and resolution ( correct me if I am wrong here ). So, we have never been pro or anti either of them, although there is little doubt we have greater relations now with Israel esp. with increasing trade.

[asterix]

Taking straight forward decision has not been the Forte` of this Govt. and especially of Foriegn Policy matters..Who can forget the Sharm-Al-Sheikh declaration..It's with this aspect in background, one can safely say that this 'sudden' decision making and leadership is nothing but an agenda which is heavily banking on Election politics. Now if I say Rahul Baba's sudden visit to Kashmir is also in line of this, then.. "Ishiliye hum kuuch nahin bolaega.. hum bolega tho bologe ki bolta hain.."..

[Lurker]

That maybe your interpretation of it and it is your privelege. For me those two elements are not separate at best of times. Plus if it MMS's speech' date= it is MMS's speech, not India's. Yes he does represent India. Maybe you were prejudging my intentions for that headline. If you had bothered to read the thread, I have discarded the vote bank aspect suggested by some in relation to this issue. So, sensationalism if any is in the eyes of the beholder, certainly not me. I ll leave it at that.

I am quite perplexed by this unusual stance, specially coming from someone like you. How is this MMS's speech when it was given at UN, as the PM of India? Clearly MMS is representing India here and not Congress, did he say somewhere that Congress is supportive of Palestine?? This is clearly India's official stance on this matter, disclosed at no less a platform that world's forum of nations.

As for the second point, like I mentioned earlier, India has and have always had a very general opaque diplomatic position on the issue like most nations. Pretty much like most of the world till maybe last 5 years had on Ind-Pak conflict. I don't believe India ever committed on the specifics of the conflict and resolution ( correct me if I am wrong here ). So, we have never been pro or anti either of them, although there is little doubt we have greater relations now with Israel esp. with increasing trade.

India has diplomatic relation with Palestine 20 yeas before it did with Israel. Israel's number 1 persona non grata, Arafat, was India's guest of occassion on many Independence Day and Republic Day celebration receiving the respect due to the highest officials on world stage. Surely that should answer where India's stance has traditionally been. xxx

[Lurker]

Now if I say Rahul Baba's sudden visit to Kashmir is also in line of this' date= then.. "Ishiliye hum kuuch nahin bolaega.. hum bolega tho bologe ki bolta hain.."..

I say lets listen to Mehar Baba, instead of Rahul Baba, and start breaking into "Dont Worry be Happy" song (not the Amitabh rendition) d-diB65scQU&ob=av3e

[daryl1985]

Amongst other things India allowed full diplomatic relationship with Israel as late as 1992. On the other hand India was the first non-Arab country to recognize PLO in early 70s, me thinks, and had full diplomatic relations with them since. With regards to Palestine's position with India, it depends on who you ask and how far back you wanna go. Unlike India, Palestine has many players in powers not all of which have been India's friend. But top leaders like Yasser Arafat, perhaps their topmost leader ever, loved India and loathed Pakistan. Arafat was our best friend in 70s and 80s and remains the only person that came close to getting the news about Indira Gandhi's imminent assasination. Depending on which account you read he did inform India agencies hours before it happened but too late. You may find some pictures online of him openly crying at her death. With regards to Israel it has become the biggest problem child for USA. Ordinary Americans are also wondering why US supports two-nation theory and still vetoeing Palestine move at UN, atleast India's position is consistent with its 50-60 year policy of two state. xxx PS: Whats with the sensationalist headline Ravish? This is India's stance not MMS. Didnt India go after Israel even in 2007-08 in their skirmish against Hamas back then for "excessive force"?

Really interesting info. Didn't know that. thx