Need to improve bowling - Dhoni

[div]

Praveen Kumar is pretty useless in India.Even two new ball rule didnot help him

[Pagalpanti]

You don't understand cricket if you say this. Genuine fast bowlers most often go for runs in ODIs but they have the ability to take crucial wickets like Aaron took Yesterday. Yadav picked in Delhi match of KP and Patel.i

Rather I'd say you didn't understand my post. Even if Aaron bowls 100 mph it wont matter unless he bowls proper line and length. all the wicket he got were good line and length, hence all bowled. All Dhoni has said these guys need to start doing it consistently, not in few matches here and there.

[J P K]

after the fourth odi dhoni said that we must groom bowler with skills like pk he said grooming a fast bowlers is difficult as they leak lot of runs and because if they lose their pace in 3-4 years they will become useless and again our bowling attack will become weak

[MCcricket]

Well the statement is true , but also applies to VK , PK, they need conditions to help them , UY, VA, are debutants, will learn as they play, Indian bowling is in a tansition phase , the captain has to be smart to figure out what works and which bowlers to punt for.

[rkt.india]

Rather I'd say you didn't understand my post. Even if Aaron bowls 100 mph it wont matter unless he bowls proper line and length. all the wicket he got were good line and length' date=' hence all bowled. All Dhoni has said these guys need to start doing it consistently, not in few matches here and there.[/quote'] But his line and length is good as good as PK Or VK. I saw more wayward deliveries by PK than Aaron in the last game.

[rkt.india]

Don't agree with that theory...Tait is one of the most dangerous bowlers with his pace but still a liability on flat wickets which are used most of the times in LOI format more often than not and so is Johnson. Gul can be dangerous when he gets the swing right at his pace but most of the times he is wayward Pace and accuracy is what makes a deadly combo in ODI's...for eg;Malinga,Lee and in the past 2 c's from Wi and 2 W's from Pak,Donald,Mcdermott etc

What are you saying Tait had 5-fer in the T20 game in CLT20 and just changed the course of the game. In 2007 WC, pitches were flat and he was second highest wicket taker. Problem with tait was he has not played many matches because of injuries. Look at Tait's ODI record, he has played less but his average is 25. You are talking about Johsnon, Johnson just had 5-fer in SL ODI series on a flat track. His record in India is brilliant in ODIs. He has 2 5-fers on these flat tracks. His overall record in both ODI and test is better than any Indian bowler, even better than and Harbhajan Zaheer.

[rkt.india]

But brett lee is fast and pretty accurate?

So is Aaron was pretty accurate. If you had watched the match PK and VK had more wayward deliveries than Aaron. He will get better as he plays more.

[rkt.india]

this would never work outside india. you definitely won't see india sweeping australia aside for 5 straight ODI wins in the upcoming tour by playing like this. its a big concern for dhoni, and rightly so because the next world cup is not in the subcontinent. you need a pace attack that can take wickets and contain, and india don't have that right now. when india won the CB series, they did so because of good batting [obviously] but more importantly it was the seamers that wrecked the opposition - ishant, sreesanth were economical and effective wicket takers, and praveen also showed up with 2 four wicket hauls. spinners like harbhajan took some crucial wikets, but could only contain. if your seamers don't fire, you have no hope in hell of winning in australia. thats why the bowling has to improve. otherwise you will see more of performances like we saw in england - where the batting makes big scores with the team unable to defend them.

Do you think pitches in Aus will be dead and flat. Remember, CB series in 2008, most of the pitches were helpful for fast bowlers. You check the bowlers' economy and you will find most of our fast bowlers went for runs, but they also took wickets in those conditions. Ishant as expensive to start with many matches but he took wickets. These were flat decks. Even England fast bowlers went for runs, more than Indians. Outside subcontinent, pitches will be helpful for fast bowlers. I don't understand why Dhoni is not considering this and on those pitches taking wickets will be more important rather than defensive bowling and stopping run rate because if you take wickets runrate will go down automatically and if you don't take wickets, it will be hard to chase targets on those helpful tracks in Australia.

[MCcricket]

Dino's word straight and simple, Dhoni can u hear it Bring back 'dinosaurs' super quick Dean Jones October 29, 2011 . I PLAYED in a wonderful era in which fast bowlers were tough and unbelievably quick. They didn't have capped teeth, gelled hair or tattoos. They wore the obligatory gold chain, had heaps of grunt and dished out old-fashioned sledging. Now these dinosaurs are no longer around. Nobody wants to bowl fast any more. Why? Don't use the excuse that there is too much cricket. In my time, Merv Hughes and Craig McDermott bowled the same number of overs as fast bowlers do today. Yes, they played less international cricket, but they played and bowled more for their states and clubs. But with the findings of the Argus report, I smell a change, a new attitude and a new outlook in Australian cricket. People ask why Australia is fast-tracking these young quicks like Pat Cummins and James Pattinson? Simply, Australia wants to be No. 1 in Test cricket and history tells us that if you have the best and fastest bowlers, you will conquer the world! The great fast bowlers of the past were bowling at their quickest between 20 and 28 years of age. Look at the Australian attack - Mitchell Johnson is 30, Peter Siddle 27 and Shane Watson 30. That's why we must introduce these young, quality fast bowlers. Countries that had gun spinners haven't ruled the world. India and Pakistan in the 1970s or '80s struggled. Sri Lanka didn't with Muthiah Muralidaran. Australia did have Shane Warne, who was a freak, but it had Glenn McGrath, Jason Gillespie, Brett Lee, Michael Kasprowicz, Andy Bichel and others to help him. The main ingredient for Test success is bowlers who can bowl over 145km/h and be somewhat accurate. Then only three things can happen to a batsman if he misreads line and length. One, he misses it and it goes through to the keeper. Two, he gets out. Or three, he gets injured. The West Indies were No. 1 in the world for 17 years (1979-'95). They had a plethora of fast bowlers. Clive Lloyd started this tactic after his team was smashed 5-1 by Australia in 1975, mainly due to the efforts of Dennis Lillee and Jeff Thomson. Lloyd decided that instead of having two fast bowlers, he would have four. Throughout the '80s and '90s, the world was graced by these super quicks. Everyone had someone who bowled fast and furious. The West Indies had Michael Holding, Andy Roberts, Joel Garner, Malcolm Marshall, Colin Croft, Wayne Daniel, Curtly Ambrose, Courtney Walsh and Patrick Patterson, plus about five others. Pakistan had Imran Khan, Waqar Younis and Wasim Akram; New Zealand had Richard Hadlee and Danny Morrison; South Africa had Allan Donald, Fanie de Villiers and Brian McMillan; England had Graham Dilley, Bob Willis, Ian Botham and later Darren Gough. Even Sri Lanka's Rumesh Ratnayeke and Graeme Labrooy could worry you. Today these dinosaurs are almost extinct. In recent years, Australia has lost the Ashes because it lacked quality fast bowlers. In 2005, Australia lost to England because England had four quality fast bowlers -Simon Jones, Steve Harmison, Andrew Flintoff and Matthew Hoggard. Same result in 2009 courtesy of Stuart Broad, Harmison, Flintoff and James Anderson, and in 2010-11 through Chris Tremlett, Anderson, Tim Bresnan, Broad and Steve Finn. Australia must find at least four fast bowlers who bowl over or close to 145km/h. Only Siddle regularly gets over 145km/h, Copeland is in the mid-120s and needs more physical development, while Johnson sporadically gets his speed over 145km/h. Watson's days as a true all-rounder could be numbered. The key is Johnson. Recently I have noticed his bowling speed is down. We know Johnson is not the most accurate bowler, but he got away with it because he was super quick. Now, batsmen are catching up with his poor deliveries. When he last played South Africa in 2009, he was bowling over 150km/h and he got 16 wickets in three Tests. He made the top order very jumpy. The problem is that he will turn 30 next week. Shorter, faster spells are the key to his longevity. Captain Michael Clarke needs to rethink how he uses his No. 1 bowler. Johnson not only has to bowl quicker, but Clarke has to use him at times when batsmen don't want to bat - just before or after lunch and tea intervals, and before stumps. Hadlee was a master at this. I believe Clarke will open up with Siddle and use youngster Cummins. That is bad news for young Copeland, but he just hasn't got enough revs at the moment. One thing is sure, Australia has Pattinson in its sights and is searching for more young super quicks. To find more quicks, I would raise the ante on their wages. We want Australian kids to bowl fast and reward them in the process. I hate being an old fogey, but the reason we are seeing these inflated and exaggerated batting averages is because there are no super quicks, apart from Dale Steyn. Have a real hard think, does anyone bowl quick any more? Many people raised their eyebrows when the great New Zealand batsman Martin Crowe announced he was coming out of retirement. Let me tell you that ''Hogan'' is no dummy! There is a lot of cash going around and no fast bowlers to worry him! With Australia going for a new coach and selectors soon, maybe I still have a chance for a comeback? If only I could lose 10 kilos and get that golf club out of my hand. This is the simple truth , yes we have potential quick bowlers, at the risk of being ultra defensive, Dhoni has to realize what team needs in long term.

[rkt.india]

Genuine fast bowlers rule.

[MCcricket]

Yes to win test matches and be a feared side, when home and away, ur bowling attack should be penetrative not defensive,u need fast bowlers.India is lucky to have a few potential candidates to fill the void, am sure Fletcher knows the importance of quick bowlers, I doubt DHONI IS ON THE SAME PAGE.Exciting times ahead we have Rahul Shukla, U Yadav, V Aaron ,I Sharma who can bowl between 140 to 150 k's, Shami , Tyagi,Nechim who can bowl mid 140's,domestic bowlers we will see this year, Anwar Ahmed, F Bhaja,P Suyal, P Parmeswaram, VRV and a few others to look forward too.

[The Dark Horse]

So is Aaron was pretty accurate. If you had watched the match PK and VK had more wayward deliveries than Aaron. He will get better as he plays more.

My point is not about Aaron..All im telling is fast bowlers can be fast as well as accurate, with practice

[BeautifulGame]

How much speed does Ali Mortaza bowl? I didnt watch much of CLT20 was he consistently above 140 like Aaron and Yadav does?

[saneindian]

How much speed does Ali Mortaza bowl? I didnt watch much of CLT20 was he consistently above 140 like Aaron and Yadav does?

ALi Murtaza is a left arm spinner from Uttar Pradesh, plays for MI in IPL, was with ICl earlier. perhaps you are refering to Abu Nechim Ahmed from MI, the right arm pacer. He was quite impressive in the Clt20, bowling around 140 consistently with top speeds of 145-146 kmph and swinging the new ball.

[The Dark Horse]

Aki Murtaza is a left arm spinner from Uttar Pradesh, plays for MI in IPL, was with ICl earlier. perhaps you are refering to Abu Nechim Ahmed from MI, the right arm pacer. He was quite impressive in the Clt20, bowling around 140 consistently with top speeds of 145-146 kmph and swinging the new ball.

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