All About Twirlymen : Spinners in India now

[Number]

Ashwin's biggest problem in the near future is going to be his bulging waist line. Someone needs to drill some sense into him and ask him to get fitter. Ojha too has a similar problem. Being overweight has almost killed Mishra's career and both Ashwin and Ojha are heading in the same direction.

Ashwin's twitter.

Not sure I remember the last time I relaxed this much.Done with my first road trip with the guys after years. Kodai was all things awesome.

:giggle:

[vvvslaxman]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJeFsTFECbM]Best 8 Balls Ever Of Shane Warne - YouTube[/ame] i want someone like him :) No need of magic deliveries, no need of magic actions.. just plain old simple conventional spinner.

[saneindian]

2008: 2012: Look at the bulge around his stomach :omg:

Look at this one

[Gunner]

We need a good Legspinner.

[CSK Fan]

i want someone like him :) No need of magic deliveries, no need of magic actions.. just plain old simple conventional spinner.

TBH, Indian batsmen would have dispatched some of those balls. Warne's USP was huge spin, and he had only 1 or 2 variations. Indian batsmen were able to read the ball from his hands and cover the spin

[vvvslaxman]

TBH' date=' Indian batsmen would have dispatched some of those balls. Warne's USP was huge spin, and he had only 1 or 2 variations. Indian batsmen were able to read the ball from his hands and cover the spin[/quote'] It doesn't matter as the spinner is not going to bowl to Indians.. i would be happy if he pwns everyone except one country.

[rkt.india]

Ashwin still can do this on Indian surfaces as long as he is willing to flight Ashwin 6 Wicket Haul Vs West Indies - 1secnekmovies.flv - YouTube

Look at how much Ashwin has bloated up since then.

[rkt.india]

Exactly IPL can be great at bring talent that had gone unnoticed to public spotlight but our spinners need to make the shift from IPL to Test and do it quickly At home we will be fine because these two are great at home conditions but when playing overseas we have problems Its so unlike us to not have a great spinner in the side

It does not have anything to do with IPL. We havent produced a single world class spinners after Bhajji and IPL is just 5 years old, so roots are old. Blaming IPL is just an excuse.

[rkt.india]

Aswhin's batting will always be a factor in his selection. Surprised many with his batting effort. Don't recall him batting this well even for his state.

He started as an opening batsman that helped. He always had that batting talent.

[rkt.india]

i want someone like him :) No need of magic deliveries, no need of magic actions.. just plain old simple conventional spinner.

His basics of leg spin were so good even when he first started. Bowling action was a bit different but was still better than many and then he was a strong man to give that pivot and power into the ball.

[vvvslaxman]

It does not have anything to do with IPL. We havent produced a single world class spinners after Bhajji and IPL is just 5 years old' date=' so roots are old. Blaming IPL is just an excuse.[/quote'] T20 format to be precise. We are seeing more darters. No drift, no conventional flight. As soon as you get hit for a 6 you resort to darting.. can't blame them.. They can't afford another six.

[rkt.india]

T20 format to be precise. We are seeing more darters. No drift' date=' no conventional flight. As soon as you get hit for a 6 you resort to darting.. can't blame them.. They can't afford another six.[/quote'] I wouldn't blame even T20. It has been a problem for long. We haven't produced any good leg spinner after Kumble and even Kumble wasn't a traditional leg spinner. It is more than 20 years now. Tradition of spin is going down. The ones who are coming lack the basics.

[jj_28]

I wouldn't blame even T20. It has been a problem for long. We haven't produced any good leg spinner after Kumble and even Kumble wasn't a traditional leg spinner. It is more than 20 years now. Tradition of spin is going down. The ones who are coming lack the basics.

true but is it a fault of the coaches or lack of coaching

[rkt.india]

true but is it a fault of the coaches or lack of coaching

Both are equally responsible.

[Crookbond]

India's bare spin cupboard

Since Kumble and Harbhajan were doing a fine job, finding new spinners wasn't a priority, and the focus was always on finding fast bowlers. It was convenient to believe that India being the land of quality spinners, there would never be a real dearth of them

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/570788.html

India's bare spin cupboard Kumble's successor, Harbhajan, has faded, and the likes of Ashwin and Mishra aren't quite up to scratch yet Aakash Chopra July 5, 2012 Ashwin: too many variations, not enough stock balls © AFP MS Dhoni's decision to field a four-pronged seam attack in the Perth Test earlier this year took many by surprise. It was the first time in two decades that India went into a Test with an all-pace attack. As much as Dhoni's radical decision was about the seamer-friendly conditions in Perth, it was equally about the lack of penetration displayed by R Ashwin in the first two Test matches of the series. While the pros and cons of that decision could be debated, it certainly wasn't thoughtless. Even though Pragyan Ojha was in the side, like in the past, he failed to catch Dhoni's fancy. And India's best bet, Ashwin, played second fiddle to Australia's Nathan Lyon, even on a subcontinental track in Adelaide. By contrast, in 2008, on India's previous tour of Australia, Anil Kumble, the Indian captain, was spoilt for choice. He fielded two spinners in the four-bowler attack in three of the four Test matches. It's common knowledge that fast bowlers hunt in pairs, but so do spinners. For over a decade, Kumble and Harbhajan Singh worked brilliantly together for India, for they complemented each other's style of bowling and sustained pressure on the opposition. These two players deserve as much credit for India's assent in Test cricket as the famous four pillars of Indian batting. After all, batsmen can only set up matches by putting runs on the board; it's the bowlers who win them by taking 20 wickets. The downside of having quality performers at the top for a long time is that since there isn't an immediate need to replace them, one seldom looks for new and upcoming talent - so much so that you might completely ignore that particular skill set in domestic cricket. That's what happened with spinners in India too. Since Kumble and Harbhajan were doing a fine job, finding new spinners wasn't a priority, and the focus was always on finding fast bowlers - which paid off to some extent. It was convenient to believe that India being the land of quality spinners, there would never be a real dearth of them. No matter what, every skill needs constant nurturing, without which it could die a slow death. Unfortunately, not many noticed that things were changing drastically on the Indian first-class circuit, where most state associations reckoned that an average medium-pace bowler was yielding more returns than an above-average spinner. This had largely to do with the SG Test balls used in domestic cricket, which were more conducive to swing bowling throughout the day. Also, the ease with which Indian batsmen have traditionally played spin played a role in prompting associations to focus more on fast bowlers. Nowadays the job of most spinners is to give medium-pacers a breather. I wrote last month about the radical decline of spin in the country. The fact is, India is grasping at straws when it comes to spin-bowling resources. There is an urgent need to identify and empower key spinners to keep the legacy of spin in the country alive. R Ashwin Ashwin is one of the few Indian spinners who flights the ball even in the face of an assault. He also possesses enough varieties to keep batsmen guessing. His high-arm action and correct release of the ball coupled with his height give him bounce off the pitch too. While having a lot of options can liberate a player, it could in some cases have a detrimental effect, like in the case of Ashiwn. With so much to choose from, it is almost as if he almost feels obliged to bowl a doosra, a slider and a carrom ball every over. Just that it isn't working in his case, for he is compromising on consistency to showcase all his wares. He would do well to take a leaf out of Graeme Swann's book and stick to bowling regular offspinners a lot more, using spin as the main weapon. Pragyan Ojha While there seems to be a lot going for Ojha on the cricket field - he has looked impressive in every outing for India - there's definitely something going against him off the field, for both the selectors and the captain seem to look through him on most occasions. Like most left-arm spinners, he's extremely accurate, and he has the ability to turn the ball off the surface. He has a reasonably good arm ball, and on days when it comes out of hand perfectly, it drifts and dips on the batsman too. Most spinners are captain's bowlers and Ojha is no different. Considering the obvious shortage of quality spinners in the country, it's imperative for the captain to show faith in him. On Ojha's part, he needs to understand that throwing darts isn't the only resort to counter an assault. Rahul Sharma, Amit Mishra and Piyush Chawla With 30 wickets in 14 first-class matches, it's anybody's guess how Sharma made it to the Indian Test team. To his credit, he did well in the fourth season of the IPL, but to consider Twenty20 performances when picking a Test team is quite astonishing. He has had a rather forgettable India A tour to the West Indies and it will be tough for him to find favour again soon. Mishra, a conventional legspinner, started his Test career with a bang. He relies on deceiving the batsman in the flight and with spin off the surface. While he has the ingredients to succeed at the highest level, his lack of pace off the surface led to him losing accuracy in the last few Tests he played and cost him his place in the side. If he can find ways to get zip off the surface (a very tough skill to acquire), he could be the ideal man to partner Ashwin. Chawla, like Mishra, impressed everyone in his first few outings but soon found the going tough because of his inability to turn the legspinner. His googly, which turns a fair bit, is his main weapon, but that can only be effective if the orthodox legspin turns away from the right-hand batsman. If Mishra is too slow off the surface, Chawla is a shade too quick and doesn't allow the ball to drift, dip or bite the surface. Harbhajan Singh After Kumble's departure, it was a given that Harbhajan would assume the role of the lead spinner and ensure a seamless transition. Unfortunately it hasn't panned out that way. Harbhajan went on to lose his spot in the Test and ODI sides, and his return isn't on the horizon either, unless Ashwin does poorly. The only fathomable reason for Harbhajan's decline is a radical change in mindset. More than the ability to turn the ball in to the right-hander or to take the doosra away, it was Harbhajan's attacking mindset that set him apart. When younger, he would constantly find ways to take a wicket without worrying too much about how many runs he conceded in the bargain. Video footage of Harbhajan's dream series against Australia in 2001 shows that he was flighting the ball back then, got drift in the air, spun the ball, and got many bat-pad catches; he also got bounce after pitching, bringing the backward short-leg fielder into play. I wish that Harbhajan could turn the clock back somehow, for he's still the most talented spinner in the country. His stint with Essex can help only if the endeavour is to rediscover his old self, because with him it's not the number of overs he bowls but how he bowls them. Then there's Jalaj Saxena, who was picked as an offspinner for India A's tour to the West Indies. He may have bowled well and taken wickets in one innings, but to wager your money on someone who has taken just 58 wickets in 41 first-class matches is rather ambitious. Akshay Darekar, Vikas Mishra and Harmeet Singh are three young left-arm spinners who, if mentored and nurtured well, can form a supply line for the Indian team. The BCCI needs to find ways to ensure that these spinners don't lower their arms and sacrifice flight. They must be encouraged to spin the ball off the surface, and perhaps kept away from the IPL till their fundamentals are firmly in place. Spinners must be taught to think and act like fast bowlers, which is to be aggressive and look for wickets, not bowl flat and fast and get reduced to being stopgaps.

[Cricket Tragic]

Oh ffs, can we not have the same **** being written every week? No technique among batsmen, no spinners, no phhhassst bowlers...... Or Tests vs T20

[The Outsider]

Oh ffs, can we not have the same **** being written every week? No technique among batsmen, no spinners, no phhhassst bowlers...... Or Tests vs T20

The solution is simple - produce batsmen with good technique, spinners who don't dart, and phaasht boilers who can bowl phhaash with control and people won't complain, right?

[Old guy]

The solution is simple - produce batsmen with good technique' date=' spinners who don't dart, and phaasht boilers who can bowl phhaash with control and people won't complain, right?[/quote'] and wht abt ipl vs test?

[Feed]

India forgets its spin bowling legacy at its own peril Indian spinners need to go back to the masters to learn guile, but they also need a bit of help from the administrators. More... India forgets its spin bowling legacy at its own peril Indian spinners need to go back to the masters to learn guile, but they also need a bit of help from the administrators Harsha Bhogle August 3, 2012 Is the knowledge of the legends of spin being put to best use? In the way dynasties used to rule (and still do in political life), countries seem to dominate sport in a somewhat peculiar way. The United States rules the pool, Jamaica produces track and field athletes who belie the size of their nation, for most of the last century and this one, the Russians have only allowed two outside their fold to win a world chess championship, and for about 50 years India produced spin bowlers who left the cricket world mesmerised. And yet these countries aren't powerhouses at other sports, or even sometimes at aspects within the same sport. India, for example, produces fast bowlers like it does chief ministers: with a lot of fanfare and only occasional success. No more than a hundred kilometres separate the Indian Punjab and its Pakistani equivalent. The culture, the idiom and the food are almost identical, but only one of those regions produces fast bowlers. Karachi was once part of the Bombay Presidency but it seems to have lost the art of producing batsmen. There must be a culture of handing down knowledge from one generation to another, sometimes sharing it within a generation - a bit like it used to be with Hindustani classical music - that produces these dynasties. Those who care for that tradition, and nurture it, continue producing champions; those who ignore it and let it fade away, who let the knowhow drain away, seem suddenly incapable of being as good. It is something that India needs to think about seriously, for, quite apart from the real drought that threatens many parts of it, there is another in the sporting world that is as dangerous. You can scan the horizon in India, you can map it with sophisticated gadgetry, but you will not find a spinner who makes your heart rejoice, who plays with the ball with the joy a child might reserve for a favourite toy. The tradition is broken and the knowhow lies like a dusty book in an old library. Two things reminded me of what we possess. Setting aside some pretty well-known differences, Sourav Ganguly recently invited Bishan Bedi to train spinners in Kolkata, saying the old wizard was still the best man to teach spin bowling. And, during a 20-over game a few months ago, I interviewed Erapalli Prasanna and he spoke of the joy of spin bowling. "If you have guile and you have control, you shouldn't worry about the batsman," he said, putting into words what he practised so many years ago. When Prasanna and Bedi were playing for India as part of the famed quartet, they were part of a tradition that included, other than BS Chandrashekhar and Srinivas Venkataraghavan, some other great spinners; dare I say, they were everywhere, like fast bowlers were in the West Indies in the seventies and the eighties. In Chennai you had VV Kumar, in Bombay, Padmakar Shivalkar, and up in the north, Rajinder Goel. These were masters, as Dilip Doshi was in Kolkata, but apart from them you also had B Vijayakrishna, V Ramnarayan, Naushir Mehta and Mumtaz Hussain in the south; Sharad Diwadkar, Bapu Nadkarni and Chandu Borde in the west; Sarkar Talwar in the north; and Salim Durani and CG Joshi in Rajasthan. Surely India was the crucible of all knowledge in spin bowling. Even as the tradition declined, India were still able to throw up Anil Kumble and Harbhajan Singh, with 1100 Test wickets between them. But Kumble, himself so unorthodox, and Harbhajan were the dying embers. It was as if the gharana (the musical school) had been dismantled. Newer spinners say that the game has changed, and with modern bats you can no longer be the spinner you were. But knowledge must adapt to changing times, not get buried under, as was the case with Indian hockey, which lived so long in the past that even the present grew to be out of sight. Indian spinners need to go back to the masters to learn guile, but they need a bit of help from the administrators. If bats are going to be what they are, boundary lines cannot be where they are. You cannot have loutish blows going for sixes off leading edges. Either world cricket legislates on bats or makes a 75-metre boundary mandatory. When javelins began threatening people at the other end of the stadium, the authorities had to clamp down. Cricket cannot live with the mistaken belief that people want to see big hits. People like to see goals, but no one is talking of moving the goalposts a metre wider either side. A goal is something special; a six must be too. And we need to work on that now because increasingly bowlers are going to come into Test cricket from the 20-over game not the other way around. Guile and control have to be in the syllabus early. Spin bowling is not the only art that is spurning the knowledge that exists in India. Kapil Dev didn't have anyone to learn from, but learn he did, and that knowledge still resides in him. Zaheer Khan got a bit more help. Unless we tap people like him and Kapil, crops will grow and wither away. Already so many have, either because of reluctance to acquire the knowhow or not having access to it. Rebuilding a tradition, like spin bowling, will take a long time. It will take even longer if we let the knowledge that resides within fade away.

[CricLind]

The spin cupboard

In Chennai, Karnataka are 103 for 1. That's just five wickets in seven sessions on a square turner. Make what you will of the spin cupboard in India

This quote is from the Cricinfo Ranji blog. Sometimes, we have seen players pitchforked into the international arena despite a complete lack of FC experience, or despite bad numbers, because they were believed to be of international standard. Sometimes they went on to become successes. Thus, I was wondering if there are any spinners on the domestic circuit who satisfy either of the below criteria: a) They have good numbers, but they are ignored/unknown because they play for lower rung teams or because they are not in the IPL or whatever. b) They have poor numbers, but have a lot of talent. c) They are relatively inexperienced at the FC level. Thus, I'm not asking about the familiar names such as Chawla, Mishra, Bhajji, Ashwin, Ojha, etc but about players who have the potential to become international players despite the factors mentioned above.