rkt.india Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 Sammy is most successful pacer from both sides. PK may not be as effective with the old ball,but if he can get 2 wickets with new ball n maintain pressure with the old ball,thats enough.even Ishant was ineffective in England with the old ball. batsmen today are not scared of pace,they get frustrated if someone keeps bowling in right areas n that PK can do.he'll get swing anyways with his action n the pitch will give him bounce.thats lethal combo whay are you talking. it is yadav who is the most successful bowler in this series, average 21, Sr 33, thay is called a strike bowler. sammy bowled enumerous overs and then took wickets at a huge Sr and average. Regarding pk and yadav and your argument of pace does not bother batsmen, dont pretend, every batsman find pace tough when it is directed right and an inch of movement is enough to decieve the batsman at a good pace. yadav has in h to take wickets with both old and new ball.
Lord Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 whay are you talking. it is yadav who is the most successful bowler in this series, average 21, Sr 33, thay is called a strike bowler. sammy bowled enumerous overs and then took wickets at a huge Sr and average. Regarding pk and yadav and your argument of pace does not bother batsmen, dont pretend, every batsman find pace tough when it is directed right and an inch of movement is enough to decieve the batsman at a good pace. yadav has in h to take wickets with both old and new ball. my bad forgot Yadav.but the point remains Sammy has troubled batsmen without pace or any skill,just by keeping it in right aread. pace does trouble batsmen,if its 150+.we dont have that.at 140 u still have to keep it in right areas.Ishant hasnt done that. I've nothing against Yadav,he should be in the XI for sure.but so is PK.I dunno why he wasnt included in this series.we'd found out how good he is.
rkt.india Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 why not?they have pace' date='no?[/quote'] You do not judge fast bowlers what they have done on Indian pitches. Fast bowling on these pitches is a thankless job. They have pace but some times they did not bowl well and also they were up against a quality batting line up of India on unresponsive pitches. Sammy is good where bowl keeps low and does not come on the bat well. He can bowl wicket to wicket and beat the batsmen, but is not one who will win you match on his bowling. He has taken wickets and pitches suited to his kind of bowling and still averages 35.
rkt.india Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 my bad forgot Yadav.but the point remains Sammy has troubled batsmen without pace or any skill,just by keeping it in right aread. pace does trouble batsmen,if its 150+.we dont have that.at 140 u still have to keep it in right areas.Ishant hasnt done that. I've nothing against Yadav,he should be in the XI for sure.but so is PK.I dunno why he wasnt included in this series.we'd found out how good he is. Bhai Sammy is troubling batsman because these pitches suit his style of wicket to wicket bowling. There is not much pace and bounce in these pitches. He just bowls straight and beats bounce batsman some ball keeps low, sometimes batsmen miss the line. Sammy is one who can give you 1-2 breakthroughs but cannot win you matches. In Australia, you will need swing with pace. I am not saying pace can fear the batsmen. I am saying swing and seam at better pace around 140K and bounce is more deadly rather than at 125K. Dale Steyn is the biggest example and Umesh Yadav is one guy who can bowl with the new ball as well as with the old ball and can take wickets. In case of PK, yes, he can take wicket with the new ball but as ball gets old, he becomes in effective we then we will have to wait for second new ball for him to come into play. You are talking about Ishant. Have you even watched the matches? He has bowled much better than what his stats show. He was even our best bowler in the first innings in the ongoing test. He was just sheer unlucky on most of the occasions. I would be happy if he can bowl like this in Aus and I am sure he will get many more wickets there.
Lord Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Bhai Sammy is troubling batsman because these pitches suit his style of wicket to wicket bowling. There is not much pace and bounce in these pitches. He just bowls straight and beats bounce batsman some ball keeps low, sometimes batsmen miss the line. Sammy is one who can give you 1-2 breakthroughs but cannot win you matches. In Australia, you will need swing with pace. I am not saying pace can fear the batsmen. I am saying swing and seam at better pace around 140K and bounce is more deadly rather than at 125K. Dale Steyn is the biggest example and Umesh Yadav is one guy who can bowl with the new ball as well as with the old ball and can take wickets. In case of PK, yes, he can take wicket with the new ball but as ball gets old, he becomes in effective we then we will have to wait for second new ball for him to come into play. You are talking about Ishant. Have you even watched the matches? He has bowled much better than what his stats show. He was even our best bowler in the first innings in the ongoing test. He was just sheer unlucky on most of the occasions. I would be happy if he can bowl like this in Aus and I am sure he will get many more wickets there. Ishant was our best bowler in 1st innings?that is plain wrong.apart from the spell in which he got Edwards,he wasnt even beating the bat,let along get edges.was bowling steadily with pace but did not trouble any batsmen.n in last games he didnt even get lines right.is terrible against lefties n Aus has atleast 4 lefties ofcourse swing at pace is more deadly than at 125ks,no doubt,I'm saying if I had to choose only one virtue out of pace or accuracy,it'll be accuracy. dont forget PK can move it both ways.Dale Steyn is in his own league not a great example,I can also give McGrath n Pollock,no use talking of legends PK maybe not as great with old ball,but can hold one end up n play support role.140+ can also leak runs.
Dravid_TheWall Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 If all fit, these are our top 4 seamers. Santh, ZK, Yadav and PK.
Dravid_TheWall Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Bhai Sammy is troubling batsman because these pitches suit his style of wicket to wicket bowling. There is not much pace and bounce in these pitches. He just bowls straight and beats bounce batsman some ball keeps low, sometimes batsmen miss the line. Sammy is one who can give you 1-2 breakthroughs but cannot win you matches. In Australia, you will need swing with pace. I am not saying pace can fear the batsmen. I am saying swing and seam at better pace around 140K and bounce is more deadly rather than at 125K. Dale Steyn is the biggest example and Umesh Yadav is one guy who can bowl with the new ball as well as with the old ball and can take wickets. In case of PK, yes, he can take wicket with the new ball but as ball gets old, he becomes in effective we then we will have to wait for second new ball for him to come into play. You are talking about Ishant. Have you even watched the matches? He has bowled much better than what his stats show. He was even our best bowler in the first innings in the ongoing test. He was just sheer unlucky on most of the occasions. I would be happy if he can bowl like this in Aus and I am sure he will get many more wickets there. You need to stop getting Ishant erection. He bowled poorly this match. How long will you say "don't look at stats" or "he is 23." Bottom line is, he has played for 4 years and in both matches was outbowled by rookies Aaron and Yadav. That is what matters. He will be dropped soon for sure. His bowling average is almost 40. At least Santh can bring his down as he can run through side, Ishant can't.
Lord Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 If all fit' date=' these are our top 4 seamers. Santh, ZK, Yadav and PK.[/quote'] Aaron instead of Sree n I agree with u
Dravid_TheWall Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Aaron instead of Sree n I agree with u Perhaps over time. Only issue is we may have too little experience on tour so many need Sree if fit. Btw completely agree with you about PK. I watched him at the games in england and he was the only indian bowler to have the respect of the english fans. He bowled very very well. I enjoyed watching him more than any "paceman." PK had them in all sorts of troble with impecable line and length with swing. Hope he succeeds. He loves bowling long spells and is aggressive. Good hitter too down the order.
rkt.india Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Ishant was our best bowler in 1st innings?that is plain wrong.apart from the spell in which he got Edwards,he wasnt even beating the bat,let along get edges.was bowling steadily with pace but did not trouble any batsmen.n in last games he didnt even get lines right.is terrible against lefties n Aus has atleast 4 lefties ofcourse swing at pace is more deadly than at 125ks,no doubt,I'm saying if I had to choose only one virtue out of pace or accuracy,it'll be accuracy. dont forget PK can move it both ways.Dale Steyn is in his own league not a great example,I can also give McGrath n Pollock,no use talking of legends PK maybe not as great with old ball,but can hold one end up n play support role.140+ can also leak runs. I will pick PK, if we do not have Zak. If Zak is there then Ishand and Yadav. PK and Zak both are good at lefties that is why if Zak is there then good, otherwise will play PK.
BeautifulGame Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Ishant was our best bowler in 1st innings?that is plain wrong.apart from the spell in which he got Edwards,he wasnt even beating the bat,let along get edges.was bowling steadily with pace but did not trouble any batsmen.n in last games he didnt even get lines right.is terrible against lefties n Aus has atleast 4 lefties ofcourse swing at pace is more deadly than at 125ks,no doubt,I'm saying if I had to choose only one virtue out of pace or accuracy,it'll be accuracy. dont forget PK can move it both ways.Dale Steyn is in his own league not a great example,I can also give McGrath n Pollock,no use talking of legends PK maybe not as great with old ball,but can hold one end up n play support role.140+ can also leak runs. Having both PK and Zaheer will mean we will be ineffective in once the ball gets old. Why does we need PK to hold up one end? We have Ashwin and Zaheer for than role and they are enough.We need our other bowlers to trouble the Aussies with the old ball and get wickets which Praveen cant do with the Kokubura ball when it gets old. As RKT says we can only play Pk if Zak is not fit.There is no place for 2 medium pacers in a 4 man attack in Australia. As for mentioning Mcgrath he bolwed far quicker than Praveen and was infact as quick as the likes of Ishant. Pollack played in a team that didnt had a quality spinner and he was the only medium pacer surrounded by the likes of Donald Kallis and Ntini all bowled above 140k .We have Zaheer to do Pollack job so why do we need praveen to hold up one end?
Lord Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Having both PK and Zaheer will mean we will be ineffective in once the ball gets old. huh,Zak is one of the best with reverse swing,how will we be ineffective with the old ball Why does we need PK to hold up one end? We have Ashwin and Zaheer for than role and they are enough.We need our other bowlers to trouble the Aussies with the old ball and get wickets which Praveen cant do with the Kokubura ball when it gets old. we may need to do that,leaking runs helps none.pressure has to be built constantly.pacers can leak boundaries. holding one end up means not only bowling line n length but also swinging the ball both ways n being relentless.trust me,it wont be easy to play,no one would take chances against PK As RKT says we can only play Pk if Zak is not fit.There is no place for 2 medium pacers in a 4 man attack in Australia. As for mentioning Mcgrath he bolwed far quicker than Praveen and was infact as quick as the likes of Ishant. Pollack played in a team that didnt had a quality spinner and he was the only medium pacer surrounded by the likes of Donald Kallis and Ntini all bowled above 140k .We have Zaheer to do Pollack job so why do we need praveen to hold up one end? why cant both Zak n PK play,Ishant is not in form n Umesh n Aaron are new would be huge risk playing both together. Zak is not there for a holding job,he is a there as a swing bowler with reverse swing abilities,main strike bowler
Hell Raiser Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 First 3 should be Ishant, Zaheer( fully fit) Yadav And Aaron, Pk should be in squad of 15 players.
BeautifulGame Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 huh,Zak is one of the best with reverse swing,how will we be ineffective with the old ball Zak is not there for a holding job,he is a there as a swing bowler with reverse swing abilities,main strike bowler The ball doesnt reverse appreciably in Australia unless u are playing in Adelaide.Even if it does Kukobura (sp) ball takes a long time unlike SG ball and mostly reverses afer 60-70 overs and the new ball loses it shine quickly too. So Zaheer mostly will have to depend on his guile and keeping up one end. we may need to do that,leaking runs helps none.pressure has to be built constantly.pacers can leak boundaries. holding one end up means not only bowling line n length but also swinging the ball both ways n being relentless.trust me,it wont be easy to play,no one would take chances against PK If the ball doesnt swing how can PK swing it both ways? If it is a pitch that supports swing then fair enough we can select both Pk and Zaheer but if it is a usual Melbourne flat wicket no point picking him when we already have Zaheer. why cant both Zak n PK play,Ishant is not in form n Umesh n Aaron are new would be huge risk playing both together. because playing 2 swing bowlers in melbourne will make our attack ineffective.Also ishant isnt in poor form , He is bowling really well and keeping one end tight allowing spiiners to attack as he has to do in these flat wickets.But he will be very effective in Aussie pitches where there will be bounce and seam which will suit him much better than these roads. Just see the records in Melbourne.Even a great swing bowler like Asif has struggled there.And pollack who has good record there has played as a support bowler there. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;ground=61;home_or_away=2;host=2;opposition=2;orderby=bowling_average;spanmax1=25+Nov+2011;spanmin1=25+Nov+2001;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling
Cricket Tragic Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 The ball doesnt reverse appreciably in Australia unless u are playing in Adelaide.Even if it does Kukobura (sp) ball takes a long time unlike SG ball and mostly reverses afer 60-70 overs and the new ball loses it shine quickly too. So Zaheer mostly will have to depend on his guile and keeping up one end. If the ball doesnt swing how can PK swing it both ways? If it is a swinging pitch then fair enough we can select both Pk and Zaheer but if it is a usual Melbourne flat wicket no point picking him when we already have Zaheer. What is a swinging pitch? :cantstop:
rkt.india Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 What is a swinging pitch? :cantstop: :cantstop:
Hell Raiser Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 What is a swinging pitch? :cantstop: :haha:
BeautifulGame Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 What is a swinging pitch? :cantstop: :((
Cricket Tragic Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Just kidding brah. It reminds me of a comment from an Indian fan I read a while back about how Indian batsmen cannot play bouncing yorkers effectively.
Sid Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Just kidding brah. It reminds me of a comment from an Indian fan I read a while back about how Indian batsmen cannot play bouncing yorkers effectively. :hysterical:
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