Ultimate_Game Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 So I guess Irfan was worse than Vinay :hysterical: Way to go selectors! Totally ignoring the fact that our decent performances the last 2 tours to Aus was in part due to Irfan.
youngindia Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Yes there are batsmen who scored big in Ranji trophy and struggled in International cricket.That doesnt make everyone with mediocre record a hidden gem. but there are players who have not excelled in ranji but can have the ammunition to do well..Not everyone is a motivated peformer especially in a second rate or third rate place.often its a first rate place of first place talents that brings the best out of most. since ranji is not exactly a first rate environment, allowances can be made,. But when it comes to batsmen its totally different.We have plenty of batsmen who has great potential and at the same time performing exceptionally well. Better potential cannot be assessed from data on paper. that's the crux of my argument, data is not information unless you give it meaning . if you look at hewitt and federer in 2003, hewitt was winning the tight matches, some GS and YEC. federer was underperforming at GS conssitently. with this data, what future forecast would you have made? would you select hewitt over federer? there is no useful insight from this data. mukund's average would not tell you the huge gap in his cover drive.pandey's average wpould not tell you the clown he is vs the short ball. but when one looks at the ability of a player to do damage and play a prime role in winning matches, you get much more of a clue. The ability to do damage in international matches cannot be quantified. it has to be observed, if the player has a top notch serve or forehand in tennis, he can do real damage. A batsman can do damage by exceptional timing(ganguly and yuvraj),exceptional technique(gavaskar and dravid), exquisite shotmaking(laxman and sehwag). these qualities gives you more of a clue. Imran selected inzamam(despite unfavourable comments from some people) when he saw him play delievries vs waqar and co, He was rewarded when things were hopeless in the WC semis . and inzamam went on to be one of pakistan's best batsmen you get rewarded for spotting potential matchwinners. Its that simple. Ranji scores would not give you that ability, Uthappa is some one with mediocre technique and not even a very good Ranji player.There are whole host of youngsters like Rahane Mukund Pujara Rohit Kohli who are far superior in potential to Uthappa. i am not opposed to any of the names you mentioned.. all of them have issues to sort out and long way to go. Yees battign standards have increased such that current fringe batsmen are better than the likes of mongia and sriram a decade earlier. Uthappa with his exceptional ability to strike the ball is a must in the shorters forms of the game.In his short international career, he has already shown an enormous ability to influence matches, He is not a priority for the tests. but warner shud tell you better not to rule out anybody. and who among sehwag, laxman ,yuvraj, dhoni have strong technique :--D there are plenty of league batsmen who have solid front foot or backfoot defence. but the ones who have made it have relied on flair ,hands and their own style! anyway uthappa is secondary to my larger point about spotting people who can inlfuence matches. U mentioned Clarke and Richards.Both were selected when they were young proteges who still have to settle in domestic cricket.So its understandable they had decent average.Uthppa is a Ranji veteran and is already 26.Its even laughable to talk Uthappa as a test player for India. they were 24 mind you.
Malcolm Merlyn Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Dinda would have been a better choice.enough of tenvic quota players. Sent from my GT-I9103 using Tapatalk
youngindia Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 And going by the recent posts' date=' ICF'ers understand how to select players. Great![/quote'] individual specific- whether international player or fan., as in anything, some people do it relatively better than others,
Crookbond Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 individual specific- whether international player or fan., as in anything, some people do it relatively better than others, You mean to say fans can do better jobs than players at identifying talent?
adi B Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 harakiri committed by former fast bowlers at the sight of viny bowing at waca
adi B Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 pk is injured ' date=' vinay may be ordinary but can u tell me who should have been picked instead ?[/quote'] aaron,nechim,pk,sree would have been ideal back up bowlers considering these 2 jokers
goose Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 'Warner treated Vinay like someone who’d dated his sister twice, before dumping her when she refused to put out'. Cricinfo HAHAHA!
Desi Cartman Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 I honestly stopped watching when I saw this idiot bowl at 125 kmph. Terrible
chainsmoker1985 Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 pk is injured ' date=' vinay may be ordinary but can u tell me who should have been picked instead ?[/quote'] Ashwin obviously, you cannot drop your best batsman for this joker. Ashwin looked more comfortable against all bowlers as compared to Sachin as well. He rarely got beaten outside off. Even Mithun was better choice than Vinay in tests. He is very good bowlers 2 left handers. He is quicker n taller than Vinay. Vinay- 5'9 max, 125-130 k. Mithun- 6'2, 135-140 k
Cricket Tragic Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 We have useless debates about these seamers. The fact is that they're all bloody pathetic
bulbul Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 We have useless debates about these seamers. The fact is that they're all bloody pathetic butt butt we prefer phassssst bolers however pathetic becuase we can all claim atleast their speeds matches with other countries phast bolers
neutral_fan Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 i cant believe he has been given a test cap how can he be picked ahead of pathan bloody useless bowler
youngindia Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 You mean to say fans can do better jobs than players at identifying talent? i told you it depends on indivdual. you are confusing 1. sporting ability with startegic prowess 2. also maintaning invidual standards as players vs identiying standards/styles of other players. if you look at startegic prowess and idnetifying talent as qualities that come naturally to only certain people. you would be right. if playing epxertise is there, it is certainly an advantage, but i have found it possile to make many calls even in sports where i am not trained like tennis or athletics without knowing anything about grips or service motion or anything technical. startegic prowess for example may involve seeing how much a serve can hurt an opponent.or how good a batsman can strike the ball. both can be done without learning about western or eastern grip or service motion or front foot defence.it means you have a good eye for high quality. The key is eye for quality. not sporting expertise. does sporting expertise giive players an advantage? yes in several areas but not in all areas. they are sportsmen.mind you.not thinkers or first rate connoiseurs where as a mature sporting system like australia will remove mediocre players ruthlessly abd pick only the quality ones, do not bank on our gavaskars or srikkanths to do the same, becuase the players they have played with are yograj singh, binny,madan lal,ghavri. precisely why guys like vinay manage to get a look in, first rate tastes again is indivudal specific. bill gates is not known for it while steve jobs is. not all those who have high standards as individuals are good at taste.
Crookbond Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 i told you it depends on indivdual. you are confusing 1. sporting ability with startegic prowess 2. also maintaning invidual standards as players vs identiying standards/styles of other players. if you look at startegic prowess and idnetifying talent as qualities that come naturally to only certain people. you would be right. if playing epxertise is there, it is certainly an advantage, but i have found it possile to make many calls even in sports where i am not trained like tennis or athletics without knowing anything about grips or service motion or anything technical. startegic prowess for example may involve seeing how much a serve can hurt an opponent.or how good a batsman can strike the ball. both can be done without learning about western or eastern grip or service motion or front foot defence.it means you have a good eye for high quality. The key is eye for quality. not sporting expertise. does sporting expertise giive players an advantage? yes in several areas but not in all areas. they are sportsmen.mind you.not thinkers or first rate connoiseurs where as a mature sporting system like australia will remove mediocre players ruthlessly abd pick only the quality ones, do not bank on our gavaskars or srikkanths to do the same, becuase the players they have played with are yograj singh, binny,madan lal,ghavri. precisely why guys like vinay manage to get a look in, first rate tastes again is indivudal specific. bill gates is not known for it while steve jobs is. not all those who have high standards as individuals are good at taste. Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. ~Leonardo Da Vinci
daryl1985 Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Ashwin obviously, you cannot drop your best batsman for this joker. Ashwin looked more comfortable against all bowlers as compared to Sachin as well. He rarely got beaten outside off. Even Mithun was better choice than Vinay in tests. He is very good bowlers 2 left handers. He is quicker n taller than Vinay. Vinay- 5'9 max, 125-130 k. Mithun- 6'2, 135-140 k Sadly he is 128-134ish and i feel he is even more limited than Vinay. He only has the delivery that comes into the right hander. I thought Vinay would get more out of the pitch (never would have dropped Ashwin though) but was wrong.
FreakazoiD Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 but the point is are munaf dinda ,nehra that much better than vinay , i think they are pretty much similar in overall quality . Munaf is easily better. He may not be quick, but he bowls stump to stump, has a reasonable out swinger, and can get good bounce off length due to his height. VK swings the ball, but only in helpful conditions. Don't know much about Dinda, doubt he would be any better. Nehra is injury prone, so wouldn't risk him. Sreesanth (when he's fit and lost his pot belly) and Munaf are the next best bowlers in India. Sad but true.
Ashraful_Rox Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 can' t blame the kid balme the selectors for picking this youngster my line up zaheer irfan pathan praveen kumar and munaf patel
Old guy Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 can' t blame the kid balme the selectors for picking this youngster my line up zaheer irfan pathan praveen kumar and munaf patel irfan :hysterical: munaf:hysterical::hysterical:
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