vvvslaxman Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Sachin has to score 500 runs in a test series first and a triple hundred to prove how gigantically superior . Given his poor performance on pitches that slightly assist bowlers (worst in my memory is his pinching and poking against Paul harris the debutant on day 4 pitch where even Dinesh Karthik was playing with ridiculous ease) i very much doubt Sachin would have done as well on uncovered pitches. On a crumbling pitches or overwhelmingly seamer helpful pitches he was always iffy. Kingsmead when India got shot for 100 and 66 Sachin was not really a great sight to watch. Also on a crumbling pitch at bangalore against the likes of Afridi Sachin was all at sea 19 runs in 87 balls. Also against Mendis/Murali on slow turners he was not really comfortable where Viru made 200. He is a great modern day batsman. All time great. A big no. He is one of the most consistent batsman of all time.
vvvslaxman Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 :hysterical: When we have good bowlers bowling and/or conditions are not that great to bat, I usually get a feeling that Ten will get out soon. I never feel as if Ten would fight it out in the middle and make the difference. when we have the below mentioned pairs in the opposition: Vaas-Murali, Amb-Walsh, Wasim-Waqar, Pollock-Donald, mcGrath-warne M I No R Avg BCLara 36 68 3 3370 51.85 sWaugh 42 66 7 2745 46.53 Sachin 29 49 1 2020 42.08 Note: Sachin's hasn't even played that many games against these bowlers :P My point as well. He did well when he started his career. But generally he does well on true pitches all over the world. On a slightly difficult surface he is not exactly as reliable as even Dravid.
zen Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Also many folks talk about his longevity as if it is exclusive to Sachin BUT: post 1 post 2
Ultimate_Game Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 And most importantly against better bowlers and the no.of grounds is above 60 IIRC. There are a whole lot of other reasons that I have mentioned in the other threads. It is one thing to have a view point but quite another to back it up with hard evidence. your theory that Bradman faced better or equal bowlers falls apart when you look at videos of Bowes , Voce etc. There are those who like to use averages of his peers and since these averages are about the same as Tendulkars they claim Bradman > SRT. Well in that case why dont you also say that Ernie Toshack - footage of his bowling is below - is better than Wasim Akram ? . This is when most of Bradman bhakts substitute evidence with ridicule, insults, smilies and just blatant lying thru the teeth. Heres Ernie Toshack who has a better bowling avg than Akram. The first left-arm bowler you see http://www.britishpathe.com/video/third-test-cricket-third-day And here is Bowes who has a better avg than Allan Donald http://www.britishpathe.com/video/fourth-test-match Can you say that these 2 were better than Waz and Donald with a straight face ? I don't want to get into whether Larwood was greater than Ambrose/Donald/Akram or Toshack was greater than Akram etc. The reason I think Bradman is better than any other batsman is his average which is almost a century every time Bradman came out to bat and difference between Bradman's and his peers' average which proves it wasn't easy to score runs in that era. If everyone had been scoring runs during that time I would haven't had Bradman at the top. That's why I asked you what your criteria was for the greatest/best of all time (i.e. whether Kallis > Bradman) and you had a different criteria (i.e. runs scored in different countries and venues) which is fair enough. So we simply need to agree to disagree on this point as if our criteria for judging the best is so different there's no possible way we can reach consensus. But that's the whole purpose of a forum where people have different POVs and opinions and it's not necessary for them to be the same. Thus there's no point in us engaging in the debate any further.
kirkutfan Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 So, now that he is bombing against Hilfenhaus, Starc, Pattinson etc., we can say that the new generation of bowlers is better than the fellows Sachin faced before, and he is obsolete. Meanwhile, Kohli has scored one century against these guys. So from now onward, if Kohli ends up with a 35 average in tests, we will conclude that Kohli > SRT because he played his career against bowlers who passed SRT by.
vvvslaxman Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 So, now that he is bombing against Hilfenhaus, Starc, Pattinson etc., we can say that the new generation of bowlers is better than the fellows Sachin faced before, and he is obsolete. Meanwhile, Kohli has scored one century against these guys. So from now onward, if Kohli ends up with a 35 average in tests, we will conclude that Kohli > SRT because he played his career against bowlers who passed SRT by. Sachin has bombed against lot of ordinary bowlers like Hansie Cronje, Gavin larsen, Pedro Collins, Aquib Javed :cantstop:
Number Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 My point as well. He did well when he started his career. But generally he does well on true pitches all over the world. On a slightly difficult surface he is not exactly as reliable as even Dravid. Are you sure about this ??
tothepoint Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Are you sure about this ?? This may help. Had posted it sometime back. Was a superflop thread, dint get a single reply :giggle: http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=277936
vvvslaxman Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 This may help. Had posted it sometime back. Was a superflop thread, dint get a single reply :giggle: http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=277936 By the look of it VVS has trumped Sachin :icflove:
CG Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Sachin has to score 500 runs in a test series first and a triple hundred to prove how gigantically superior . Given his poor performance on pitches that slightly assist bowlers (worst in my memory is his pinching and poking against Paul harris the debutant on day 4 pitch where even Dinesh Karthik was playing with ridiculous ease) i very much doubt Sachin would have done as well on uncovered pitches. On a crumbling pitches or overwhelmingly seamer helpful pitches he was always iffy. Kingsmead when India got shot for 100 and 66 Sachin was not really a great sight to watch. Also on a crumbling pitch at bangalore against the likes of Afridi Sachin was all at sea 19 runs in 87 balls. Also against Mendis/Murali on slow turners he was not really comfortable where Viru made 200. He is a great modern day batsman. All time great. A big no. He is one of the most consistent batsman of all time. :giggle::giggle:You need to watch your videos of sachin against shane warne and other spinners on rank turners we prepared in 1990's .
CG Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 By the look of it VVS has trumped Sachin :icflove: Yeah yeah By that table habibul bashar scored more platinium runs that don bradman.:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::haha::--D:--D:dance::hitler:
tothepoint Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 By the look of it VVS has trumped Sachin :icflove: I am afraid he doesnt Sachin averages 29.54, Dravid 31.71 and Laxman 27.84 when bowler-pitch quality is rated as tough. Kindly refer to the player wise distribution table by super groups in the following link(plz scroll down,dont close it just after looking at Botham's pic :winky:) :- http://blogs.espncricinfo.com/itfigures//archives/2012/01/batsman_analysis_by_bowlerpitc_1.php
vvvslaxman Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 :giggle::giggle:You need to watch your videos of sachin against shane warne and other spinners on rank turners we prepared in 1990's . It is not so pretty to be good against warne and dud against Afridi.
CG Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 It is not so pretty to be good against warne and dud against Afridi. It was one match and we were batting to save the game,Pressure can make best look ordinary. anyway It was also at banglore sachin played that magnificent 90 against pak when saqlain was wrecking havoc.
kirkutfan Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Also note, Bradman doesn't compare to Sachin, because Bradman had to excel in only one format in the game- test cricket. Sachin did well in both test cricket and ODIs. However, by the time Kohli is done with his career, he would have had to play (at the highest level)- tests, ODIs and twenty twenty. Heck, before his career is over, he may have had to play 10-10 too. With that kind of pressure, even a 25 +test average by Kohli will be better than SRT's 50+. Of course, we all know that SRT's 50+ is better than Bradman's 99.
The Outsider Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Also note' date=' Bradman doesn't compare to Sachin, because Bradman had to excel in only one format in the game- test cricket. Sachin did well in both test cricket and ODIs. However, by the time Kohli is done with his career, he would have had to play (at the highest level)- tests, ODIs and twenty twenty. Heck, before his career is over, he may have had to play 10-10 too. With that kind of pressure, even a 25 +test average by Kohli will be better than SRT's 50+. Of course, we all know that SRT's 50+ is better than Bradman's 99.[/quote'] Please add in the fact that Kohli will have to contend with a lot more sledging than Tendulkar did. I am not kidding - this was given as a reason to show Tendulkar is greater than Bradman - Bradman did not have to contend with concentration breaking sledging like Tendulkar.
zen Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Also note' date=' Bradman doesn't compare to Sachin, because Bradman had to excel in only one format in the game- test cricket. Sachin did well in both test cricket and ODIs. However, by the time Kohli is done with his career, he would have had to play (at the highest level)- tests, ODIs and twenty twenty. Heck, before his career is over, he may have had to play 10-10 too. With that kind of pressure, even a 25 +test average by Kohli will be better than SRT's 50+. Of course, we all know that SRT's 50+ is better than Bradman's 99.[/quote'] And the generation after Kohli will be required to avg 12.5 only to be considered as greater than Kohli, Sachin and Bradman :P /thread
Lurker Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Bahut boora hashr hua SRT ka is thread mein :((:((
Lurker Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Also note' date=' Bradman doesn't compare to Sachin, because Bradman had to excel in only one format in the game- test cricket. [b']Sachin did well in both test cricket and ODIs. However, by the time Kohli is done with his career, he would have had to play (at the highest level)- tests, ODIs and twenty twenty. Heck, before his career is over, he may have had to play 10-10 too. With that kind of pressure, even a 25 +test average by Kohli will be better than SRT's 50+. Of course, we all know that SRT's 50+ is better than Bradman's 99. Actually I think this has a huge role in building up Sachin's aura as a player. Purely as a Test batsman he would hardly be considered close to Bradman. In an example mentioned above against 5 top bowlers in this thread- Mcgrath, Ambrose, Donald, Waqar, Wasim - he averages 36.5. That is a shade lower than Rahul Dravid's -37.02. In other words Sachin was not even the dominant batsman of Indian team let alone world when it comes to Test cricket. Can you imagine Bradman coming 2nd best to Les Fowell or Syd Barnes? That would have destroyed his legacy. On the other hand RD didnt get to be in the same bracket as SRT because former was not as good in LOI. I say it cuts both ways, LOI success made SRT seem a much better batsman than he was.
Lurker Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 By the way for $heet and giggles as well. Here is Kapil Dev performance against the top bats of his time. The batsmen list includes - Viv Richards, Alan Border, Javed Miandad, Greg Chappell, Zaheer Abbas, Gordon Greenidge, Clive Lloyd. 247 wickets@ 26.6 This includes: 72 wickets@23 against West Indies 79 wickets@25.3 against Aussies 96 wickets@30 against Pakistan. Now if thats not a standout against top batsmen of the time, wonder what is. Hats off to Kapil Dev. What would we do to get a player like him today?
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