Late Cut Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 This is more of a sociological debate now, isnt it? Not disagreeing with some of your points just asking to keep perspective. For instance, what bothers me most from Indians(cricketers or professionals) is that often there is a lack of responsibility. It is always somebody else's job. When it comes to fans it becomes rather apparent. No other cricketing nation defends its player as much as we do. Aussies will let Ponting retire, just as they let Mcgrath, Warne, Gilly and Hayden to retire but raise the question of Sachin retiring and you are well equipped to lose your passport. Oh, it is sociological, but i see that at play in indian sports a lot too. What you refer to, the lack of responsibility, arises from that; people tend to pass the buck if there are no repercussions for non performance. The same goes for innovation. My position more or less supports yours. I see lots of folks on here become incensed when the retirement of SRT, Dravid etc. Are brought up. These are valid questions to be considered and evaluated based on performance, irrespective of other factors. Sports, unfortunately, does not forgive slowing reflexes and aging like other professions. Most athletes are over the hill by the time they reach their late thirties. Unfortunately, a culture of hero worship considers such questions to be attacks, living on past glories, and sporadic, one off performances. It also prevents the younger generation from gaining the needed experience to perform at their peak while they are in their prime, causing a negative feedback loop to the detriment of sport and profession. It also prevents innovation and retards leadership as well.
Raghav_12 Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Good thing you were not Bob Simpson and Alan Border in 80s or all the budhaos would be playing for Australia till Kingdom come as well. Bob Simpson is great example in this context. Guy who himself played last test past age of 42, is given an example to show that guy at age of 38 is Budhao. Great Logic at work.
Yoda-esque Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 This is more of a sociological debate now, isnt it? Not disagreeing with some of your points just asking to keep perspective. For instance, what bothers me most from Indians(cricketers or professionals) is that often there is a lack of responsibility. It is always somebody else's job. When it comes to fans it becomes rather apparent. No other cricketing nation defends its player as much as we do. Aussies will let Ponting retire, just as they let Mcgrath, Warne, Gilly and Hayden to retire but raise the question of Sachin retiring and you are well equipped to lose your passport. Citijan ban gaye ho kaa? :winky:
Raghav_12 Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Usually across all cricket teams Captain or Coach are the ones who held responsible for disastrous series defeats. But we seem to have got one punching bag for all causes - India lost to England, Sachin is responsible. Lost to Australia - Sachin is responsible. I am sure if India fail to qualify for Hockey Olympics, there would be people at ICF claiming that Sachin is too old to play. Not saying that Sachin played at par on last two overseas test series, but Gambhir, Sehwag, Dhoni should go ahead of Sachin. Link for numbers of Indian batsmen in last two overseas series. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;orderby=runs;spanmax1=20+Feb+2012;spanmin1=20+Feb+2011;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting
asterix Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Eik Bihari Ko Dusra Bihari Hi Kaat Sakat Hain.. :phehehe: Loved the phrase, "Murdwan Burbak Hain Kya".... After a long time I read that phrase.. Mazaa aa gaya..
Khalpat Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Eik Bihari Ko Dusra Bihari Hi Kaat Sakat Hain.. :phehehe: Loved the phrase, "Murdwan Burbak Hain Kya".... After a long time I read that phrase.. Mazaa aa gaya.. :hatsoff:
Lurker Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Bob Simpson is great example in this context. Guy who himself played last test past age of 42' date=' is given an example to show that guy at age of 38 is Budhao. Great Logic at work.[/quote'] lol..That probably sums up your knowledge of all things cricket. Surely you know Simpson retired at 31 years and had to come back to address Packer Series debacle for Australia. No? Maybe not :hysterical:
Lurker Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Citijan ban gaye ho kaa? :winky: Nahin bandhu...:headshake:
punjabi_khota Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Eik Bihari Ko Dusra Bihari Hi Kaat Sakat Hain.. :phehehe: Loved the phrase, "Murdwan Burbak Hain Kya".... After a long time I read that phrase.. Mazaa aa gaya.. abbe yeh photo kiski hai yaar..hatale isko ab sahi nahi jaati
Raghav_12 Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 lol..That probably sums up your knowledge of all things cricket. Surely you know Simpson retired at 31 years and had to come back to address Packer Series debacle for Australia. No? Maybe not :hysterical: In era of google, you are not more knowledgeable than me if you know that Simpson had retired at 31. But fact remains that if he was so pro-young, why did he come back to captain Australia at extreme budhao age of 41? Didn't he take opportunity away from of some youngster who would have enriched his experience if given captaincy?
asterix Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 abbe yeh photo kiski hai yaar..hatale isko ab sahi nahi jaati N Srini :icflove:
Lurker Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 In era of google' date= you are not more knowledgeable than me if you know that Simpson had retired at 31. But fact remains that if he was so pro-young, why did he come back to captain Australia at extreme budhao age of 41? Didn't he take opportunity away from of some youngster who would have enriched his experience if given captaincy? lol..So not only are you ignorant, you are also arrogant enough to think someone who pointed out your mistake may actually know more than you? With regards to Simpson now, he retired at age of 31 so that should be enough for cheerleader like you. Secondly when Australian team was down in the dumps he was requested to come back which he did. Now if India ever lands in the same boat, rest assured I would be seconding you to bring back SRT at glorious age of 49, just like 10 years after Simpson was. Happy? :hatsoff:
maniac Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 People tend to forget that the major contributor in our last 2 big successes has been SRT,the test series in SA and WC....People here have such short frickin memories or they just enjoy trolling Even during the WC there were threads criticising Dhoni and Gambhir every other day till they stole the thunder in the finals...who was the best batsman for India in the tourney???Zak,Yuvi and SRT were the main reasons we were in the finals and credit were it's due Gam and Dhoni picked their performance at the right time. In SA who was the major contributor in drawing the series? Even in the Eng and Aus they were more pathetic performances than his(not that the others around him set a benchmark).... This is just a literal translation of a famous telugu idiom...When the king's elephant walks on the street,street dogs will always bark but that doesn't effect it's royalty
maniac Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 PS:As far as Kapil Paaji goes,he was just giving his opinion and he as a legend has the total right to express it in cricketing matters but that should be about it
Raghav_12 Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 lol..So not only are you ignorant' date=' you are also arrogant enough to think someone who pointed out your mistake may [u']actually know more than you? With regards to Simpson now, he retired at age of 31 so that should be enough for cheerleader like you. Secondly when Australian team was down in the dumps he was requested to come back which he did. Now if India ever lands in the same boat, rest assured I would be seconding you to bring back SRT at glorious age of 49, just like 10 years after Simpson was. Happy? :hatsoff: Your attempts to educate me about Simpson shows your illusion that neither I know about Simpson nor I have resources to know about him. Dude, I very well knew this story but the fact remains that he took opportunity away from some youngster by captaining at the extreme budhao age of 42, irrespective of the reasons behind.
Lurker Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Oh, it is sociological, but i see that at play in indian sports a lot too. What you refer to, the lack of responsibility, arises from that; people tend to pass the buck if there are no repercussions for non performance. The same goes for innovation. My position more or less supports yours. I see lots of folks on here become incensed when the retirement of SRT, Dravid etc. Are brought up. These are valid questions to be considered and evaluated based on performance, irrespective of other factors. Sports, unfortunately, does not forgive slowing reflexes and aging like other professions. Most athletes are over the hill by the time they reach their late thirties. Unfortunately, a culture of hero worship considers such questions to be attacks, living on past glories, and sporadic, one off performances. It also prevents the younger generation from gaining the needed experience to perform at their peak while they are in their prime, causing a negative feedback loop to the detriment of sport and profession. It also prevents innovation and retards leadership as well. I couldnt agree more with most of your points. Specifically how we tend to have no repurcussions for non performance. No wonder we suck at sports overall. Where I am unsure if I am getting you correctly though is the seniority value you are talking of. Lets take an example of the support that Sachin is getting, do you think it comes form the fact that he may be senior to some of the fans here? Just curious.
Lurker Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Your attempts to educate me about Simpson shows your illusion that neither I know about Simpson nor I have resources to know about him. Dude' date=' I very well knew this story but the fact remains that he took opportunity away from some youngster by captaining at the extreme budhao age of 42, irrespective of the reasons behind.[/quote'] I frankly couldnt care one way or the other what a layman on the web thinks about Bobby Simpson, certainly not who yaps about Google era. What I do care about is how someone can be a half-decent cricket fan and not understand that Simpson and SRT case is not even remotely same. It is just a cheerleading effort, and a mighty poor one at that. So yeah keep going at it mate :two_thumbs_up:
Tendulkar_Bhai Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Usually across all cricket teams Captain or Coach are the ones who held responsible for disastrous series defeats. But we seem to have got one punching bag for all causes - India lost to England, Sachin is responsible. Lost to Australia - Sachin is responsible. I am sure if India fail to qualify for Hockey Olympics, there would be people claim at ICF that Sachin is too old to play. Not saying that Sachin played at par on last two overseas test series, but Gambhir, Sehwag, Dhoni should go ahead of Sachin. Link for numbers of Indian batsmen in last two overseas series. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;orderby=runs;spanmax1=20+Feb+2012;spanmin1=20+Feb+2011;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting Stop on, look at the form guide of the whole team, we have MUCH BIGGER problems than Sachin who is playing well and will go within 2 yrs. Firstly the poor form of Sehwag and Gambhir who are the immediate future, MSD not being able to captain the team and being clueless with his selections (is the coach also to blame?), bowling wise we are a mess, an ageing Zak, along with no decent bowling backup apart from 1/2. Spinners - no one coming through either, Ashwin has been poor and Jaddu is not an alrounder.
Khalpat Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Stop on' date=' look at the form guide of the whole team, we have MUCH BIGGER problems than Sachin who is playing well and will go within 2 yrs. Firstly the poor form of Sehwag and Gambhir who are the immediate future, MSD not being able to captain the team and being clueless with his selections (is the coach also to blame?), bowling wise we are a mess, an ageing Zak, along with no decent bowling backup apart from 1/2. Spinners - no one coming through either, Ashwin has been poor and Jaddu is not an alrounder.[/quote'] What are you saying? The problem is only with a player who has played 4 out of previous 25 matches in ODI. So what he is all time greatest ODI player, it is due to him Rahane is not able to play. We are not going to tolerate him and how can you question it and not say yes he is liability you are also a bhakth. If not then give us proof by writing an article on Madan lal and Sandip Patil. You Sachin bhakth...
Trundler27 Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 only sachin himself can call for sachin's retirement. that is so like chuck norris :ridinghorse:
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