"If there is a guy that's the same standard as me...

[Lurker]

Kapil Dev ?:hysterical:

:beee:

[Bumper]

Forget about international cricket. Let these old warriors retire from IPL first.

[rkt.india]

Other then these 3 there were 4 more batsmen who played in each of these 8 tests. Kindly enlighten me how many 50's they have. Your this post lose your credibility in first statement itself when you say it's not difficult to find cricketers like SRT, Dravid and Laxman. Do a simple exercise. Find runs per innings for these three batsmen over these 8 tests and find runs per innings for rest of the batting order. See what you find.

Did you even read the sentence properly? I said it is not difficult to find batsmen who can play as good as what these guys are playing currently. I dont think we can lose worse than 8-0 against any side with those new batsmen which we lost with these ATGs. You cannot blame others when the most experienced, most 100 scorers, runs scorers, termed ATGs are failing match after match. You are ignoring what I said or you cannot see beyond these guys, they may have scored 1 or 2 runs more than others on average but is that enough reason for those guys to under perform. Once people say they ATGs and they should be respected, we respect them, but team's future comes first. Other may have averaged 20 and these guys may have scored 25, but are they only there to score 25 on average. I don't want to go into stats as it is all about their usefulness now when they are already 39. I dont deny they cannot improve, yes they will score runs in India, but others too will score in India. I even include Sehwag with these guys. There are 4 guys who are not doing any good for us sticking to their places in tests.

[rkt.india]

if u didnt notice Gambhir has been failing since last 2 years.his last ton came in Jan 2010 against BD.n that includes home ODIs.isnt that enough of a rope.

It is not all about tons. He played some crucial innings up front in SA. Yes he failed on several occasions in last 2 yeas, but he has shown that he can come back and fight it out. He still has 4-5 years to cricket in him.

all I am saying judge them by performance not by age,by performance GG-Sehwag,Dhoni,Ishant, all have been failing.why should these 3 be singled out just bcoz of thier ages?that seems unfair.thier time is near,but they r still experienced n can guide our youngsters,atm only Kohli has certain place in th test squad.if we drop them all at once,youngsters will be clueless.

Why not age be factor when they are not performing. It is their age which is letting them down. Regarding youngsters failing, It is a different thing with them. If we signal out talented guys even if they fail we need to persist with them because of age on their side. There is an example of VVS Laxman, his first 2-3 years in tests were very ordinary, but selectors still persisted with him. They had identified his talent and did not lose hope. IF we had discarded him, he would not be what he is now. Similarly, in case of Ishant, he has already given some memorable moments and he has been identified as a talent and I do not think he can be discarded. He may be going through a bad phase, but he can be given time out for some time. We persisted with Dravid even with his mediocre performances between 2006 and 2010. But now it is not the time to let them continue ad they wont take our team anywhere. Regarding Sehwag, I even include Sehwag with these three.

its easy to say in hindsight that he should hv retired after Eng series,but honestly would u have been happy with a youngster at no.3 instead of him,given the form he shown in Eng n WI.if u look at it,its has been just one bad Aus tour for RD.

What about 4 years before before WI and England tour. Thing is he certainly scored runs in WI and England, but apparently his batting is going down, his footwork, reflexes are not what they used to be. His dismissals on OZ tour has down us. He was struggling put straight deliveries away.

then why the hell should people decide?why not let them decide for themselves.if u followed them enough,do u really think they r selfish n money hungry n have anything but best interest of Indian cricket in mind?.if they scored runs in India n retired atleast they'd leave on a high with people asking why than why not.n against strong team like England,its good we have them.youngsters may score pretty 50s,but these guy will convert it into tons,which will only help us.

I do not think they are selfish or money hungry, I am talking about love with the game, greed playing and score runs. There are two things, your heart and your body, heart and mind want to continue play cricket, but body does not make it easy which is happening with these guys. I can tell you that SRT looks like he is playing well but suddenly gets out. He is becoming anxious nowadays, losing concentration, that is why he is not able to convert his short cameos to big innings. I Have never seen him struggle so much even while playing well so many times not able to bat long. It is a sign that mental strength is not what it used to be.

nobody saying play them forever.these youngsters will learn only if somebody's there to guide them.Pujara,Kohli developed only because they were there to guide them.phase them out one by one.n let youngsters develop under them

Problem how some one will guide youngsters when he himself is struggling with his form. These guys will go into their shelter and introspection in trying to find what they are doing wrong and improving themselves when they will find any time to guide youngsters. I do not think our youngsters cannot handle themselves. We have one ODI series with pure rookie teams with no seniors, home and away, and challenged oppositions then why we thought they need guidance. Coach is there to guide them.

[debachat]

Other then these 3 there were 4 more batsmen who played in each of these 8 tests. Kindly enlighten me how many 50's they have. Your this post lose your credibility in first statement itself when you say it's not difficult to find cricketers like SRT, Dravid and Laxman. Do a simple exercise. Find runs per innings for these three batsmen over these 8 tests and find runs per innings for rest of the batting order. See what you find.

In which case why should they be considered All Time Greats and be showered with zillion opportunities to get back in form. Arent these three the highest paid, most experienced cricketers in our teams. Is it too much to expect that the big guys will raise their hands when the chips are down.

[debachat]

yeah they wont tour SA abroad in 2013' date='but why deny them a proper farewell at home.they have failed as have just about everyone except Kohli n Yadav in tests. Gambhir's dismissals were as embarrassing as Dravids' in tests.he also doesn't have a ton in Aus or Eng.he did better in Adelaide n Hobart ODIs coz of the flat pitch.our young ODI team also isnt doing all that well.to me almost everyone looked disinterested.so why single out these three alone?because they r old?that doesnt sound right to me?either u drop GG-Sehwag along with these guys or leave them alone to decide thier own fate,phasing out these three one by one like we would have done with them at this age,irrespective of thier failures[/quote'] Lets invite Bangladesh or Zimbabwe for a home series on a road of a pitch and let them pile on the runs. Other than that I dont see a proper farewell coming. If Gambhir didn't perform his place should be scrutinized as well but that cannot happen before the people guaranteed their spots are questioned and asked to leave. He atleast deserves as many chances as these maharathis have got in their lives. Whether it is Dravid before the England Series or whether it was tendulkar during his lean patches - tennis elbow days and others. I have a huge respect for SRT but its hard to look the other way when things are going so bad.

[PriyankaSR]

but you dont have any difficulties finding cricketers who can play as good as SRT' date=' Dravbid, VVS are playing off late. Do you? We wont lose worse we lost in England in Aus in test. SRT and VVS do not have a single century on these tours. These two have 3-4 50s combined in 32 innings of these 8 tests. I think we can find those young batsmen easily who can as score as much as these 3 have scored in those last 8 tests abroad and even if we lose we won't mind because we will already not have much expectations from those young boys. If you are to lose better to lose with young batsmen and give them exposure so that they can get better. We are not solving any purpose with seniors right now.[/quote'] Who do you think they are, Raknikanth perhaps? We lost because the whole team didn't perform. Not because Sachin ,Dravid and Laxman didn't perform.

[rkt.india]

Who do you think they are, Raknikanth perhaps? We lost because the whole team didn't perform. Not because Sachin ,Dravid and Laxman didn't perform.

but what is the reason why Sachin, Dravid, and Laxman did not perform. It is not the an excuse fro them and they are our ATGs. They are there to set examples to others. Regarding replacements, you never get like for like replacements and the kind of batting ATGs are showing, it is not difficult for youngsters to come and fail when even these ATGs are failing. You are talking like they have scored so many runs and still we lost. They were the main batsmen and it was up to them to score runs and post totals. WE need to look at bulding a team for future rather than stay with the guys who already have past their prime.

[PriyankaSR]

but what is the reason why Sachin, Dravid, and Laxman did not perform. It is not the an excuse fro them and they are our ATGs. They are there to set examples to others. Regarding replacements, you never get like for like replacements and the kind of batting ATGs are showing, it is not difficult for youngsters to come and fail when even these ATGs are failing. You are talking like they have scored so many runs and still we lost. They were the main batsmen and it was up to them to score runs and post totals. WE need to look at bulding a team for future rather than stay with the guys who already have past their prime.

Oh god. That is the reason I asked you if you think he is Rajnikant.(I don't mean to be rude at all ! ) Twenty years ain't enough to contribute?

[Lord]

It is not all about tons. He played some crucial innings up front in SA. Yes he failed on several occasions in last 2 yeas' date=' but he has shown that he can come back and fight it out. He still has 4-5 years to cricket in him.[/quote'] hes got technical issues,wont it be better if he corrects them in FC,why should we suffer bcoz of him? if its age thats letting these 3(or 4) down ,whats with the rest?its a collective failure,n reason should also be something that applies to everybody,simple.no? we persisted with Dravid,when he was 10 yrs into his career n was considered a legend.is that the case with Gambhir,Ishant?Regarding Laxman he was persisted bcoz there were no options.we have options now.anyway I remember he was dropped wen he refused to open Dravid did score runs against NZ,SL,England at home before that.again u r talking about one OZ series.wat about poker GG then?why different criterias? I'd agree that 100th ton is probably putting pressure on him,but the ability is still there.once he gets it h'll come good.about not seeing him like this before.he was like this 2005-06.it happens. the bad form was in foreign conditions.I'm sure they'll do well at home like they did v WI.you must say even youngsters can do that but youngsters will get 50s while these will get tons,which we'll need given our bowlers.n it'll help thier confidence n they'll able to guide youngsters.Coach can only help you that much.watching these guys' work ethic would be greatest learning

[Raghav_12]

In which case why should they be considered All Time Greats and be showered with zillion opportunities to get back in form. Arent these three the highest paid' date=' most experienced cricketers in our teams. Is it too much to expect that the big guys will raise their hands when the chips are down.[/quote'] There are two seperate things: 1. If a player is ATG or not 2. If player deserves a place in team. You seperate these two, you'll see the truth. Qualification marks for selection in team should be same for everybody - be it past ATG, present ATG or future ATG. Having said that I admit that some of these seniors should hang the boots, not because they are 38 or so, but their game says so.

[chainsmoker1985]

do we really hv the same standard of cricketers as Sachin' date='Rahul,Laxman?[/quote'] If we are not going 2 give chances to new players, then how we r going 2 find out our new Sachins and Dravids. These are not vehicles that comes with guarantee, these are players that have to be groomed and given appropriate chances then the best of the best should be persisted with. You will never find readymade legends

[chainsmoker1985]

all I am saying judge them by performance not by age,by performance GG-Sehwag,Dhoni,Ishant, all have been failing.why should these 3 be singled out just bcoz of thier ages?that seems unfair.thier time is near,but they r still experienced n can guide our youngsters,atm only Kohli has certain place in th test squad.if we drop them all at once,youngsters will be clueless.

What guidance yar !! I don't believe in this guidance-widance at intl level(from the perspective that you r talking about and many others give it as an excuse). There are always enough staff in the team management to encourage the youngsters and if you still need seniors to guide youngsters, keep them in the supporting staff or make them assistant coach or batting coach or bowling. But, if you see, even your this point of guidance is contradicting itself. If you r going 2 keep seniors in the team, then whom are they going to guide. Coz if seniors are going 2 stay in the team, then juniors will not get chance. Then whom r these seniors going to guide yar? Plus Virat and Rohit Sharma have stayed in the team for enough time now that they don't need any basic guidance from the seniors which a youngster usually needs. Now, their performance matters not their grooming. Last point, Suresh Raina was there in the team on England and WI tours with these seniors. He had played enough cricket before that. But still our seniors couldn't guide him to succeed on that tour. And he was eventually dropped. So, what I mean 2 say is, if a player has potential, he will pass all tests and will stay at intl level e.g. Virat Kohli. And if a player has weak game, then even this guidance can't help him e.g. Suresh Raina

[chainsmoker1985]

Other then these 3 there were 4 more batsmen who played in each of these 8 tests. Kindly enlighten me how many 50's they have. Your this post lose your credibility in first statement itself when you say it's not difficult to find cricketers like SRT, Dravid and Laxman. Do a simple exercise. Find runs per innings for these three batsmen over these 8 tests and find runs per innings for rest of the batting order. See what you find.

Raina was already dropped after England tour. Sehwag should have been dropped lot earlier but he has eventually been dropped from Asia Cup due to his continuous poor performances(although they reckon it as rested but we all know) Harbhajan was dropped after England tour. But, the main culprits, these 3 maharathis will still remain in the team. Although, Raina, Harbhajan, Sehwag and Gambhir might have some future in the coming 3-4 years but these 3 maharathis definitely not have any future at all. Just a wastage of 3 important slots in the team :((

[chainsmoker1985]

Who do you think they are, Raknikanth perhaps? We lost because the whole team didn't perform. Not because Sachin ,Dravid and Laxman didn't perform.

Yar, ek Gilchrist tha, in 2008 India vs Australia, he dropped one catch and he decided, its time to retire coz his reflexes were getting weakened. Ek hamare maharathi hain, sharam-lihaaz to kuch hai nahi, aur chaati taan ke bolte hain, India aao tab dekhenge :giggle:

[PriyankaSR]

Yar' date=' ek Gilchrist tha, in 2008 India vs Australia, he dropped one catch and he decided, its time to retire coz his reflexes were getting weakened. Ek hamare maharathi hain, sharam-lihaaz to kuch hai nahi, aur chaati taan ke bolte hain, India aao tab dekhenge :giggle:[/quote'] Well then, all I can say is Gilly bhai was stupid in taking that decision.

[Old guy]

Well then' date=' all I can say is Gilly bhai was stupid in taking that decision.[/quote'] its not just catch.. wicket keeping imo is hardest job in cricket .. with slow reflexes body getting old (so it takes longer to recover and play again) when ur reflexes are not good enough to take catches or playy straight balls coming at stumps :winky: its time to call the day u dont need to wait for repeating mistake 20 odd times and making joke of urself!

[rkt.india]

Oh god. That is the reason I asked you if you think he is Rajnikant.(I don't mean to be rude at all ! ) Twenty years ain't enough to contribute?

20 years but what after that? You think they should stay in the team forever because they have been in the team for 20 years. They need to continue to contribute and if they do not then it is allover. We cannot stick with them when we they are 39 and have passed their sell by date.

[Old guy]

20 years but what after that? You think they should stay in the team forever because they have been in the team for 20 years. They need to continue to contribute and if they do not then it is allover. We cannot stick with them when we they are 39 and have passed their sell by date.

++

[rkt.india]

hes got technical issues' date='wont it be better if he corrects them in FC,why should we suffer bcoz of him?[/quote'] Now after this tour, he will have lot of time work on that glitch. This error was there before too and that is why he could not become regular for a long time but he worked on that and and came back strongly. He will do it again and if he does not do it then he will have to sit out. I am not partial at all. I am just in favor of giving him another chances because he has done that before and scored runs and has age on his side. As you said Gambhir had technical problem and other 4 are victim of their slow reflexes due to age and Kohli scored runs. SO they are 6 batsmen we played in Australia. In fact, Sehwag has never been good overseas in last 4 years, but we take him because he sores runs in SC that is not my problem that is selectorial issue and they have not addressed it yet. So did Gamnbhir not had an average of 50 just 2 years ago. Did not he played some crucial innings for India. It was not like Gambhir was a liability before he went into bad form. Dravid's bad patch went long. It was 4 years and then he just good England tour in between and a good WI tour and again he did not do much in Australia and his batting in Australia was embarrassing to say the least. Gambhir was at least got on good deliveries edging behind. Dravid got on straight deliveries missing their lines which showed how his reflexes have slowed down. Same with Ishant. Ishant may not have been as good as other international pacers, but he has been as good as any Indian great fast bowler such as Kapil, Zaheer, Srinath till the England tour and If Ishant was bad, I think Kapil, Zaheer, Srinath were also as poor. I am not saying they must play Ishant even with bad performance, but let him play domestic ad keep an eye on him. I am against discarding a young player who has won us matches at the age of 23. Many cricketers make their debuts at 23, like Umesh Yadav, while Ishant already has 140 odd test wickets. Those were in India. Most Indian youngsters will score runs in India. I am not talking about just one Oz series. One series does not make an average of less than 40 in 4 years for a number 3 batsmen. Give those many years to Kohli or Pujara or Rahane even they can average 40, even more than 40. I am not talking about their peaks. Because their peaks are not gonna come back again. They can still score runs here and there but not consistently and will never at the standard they had set. I am all for giving Gmabhir and Ishant break too and play at FC to improve and let others prove what they are worth of. No one is above the team. I do not think it 100th 100 pressure. A guy who has scored 99 100s. Do you think he will have pressure of 100th 100. Issue is the concentration and reflexes. He has developed two modes of batting off late. Either too slow or too fast and the reason is when tries to play easy he gets too slow and in his shell and tries concentrate on the game but his slow reflexes and brittle concentration is not letting that happen and is not able to play long even when he is playing slow and trying to concentrate hard. Dismissal on Clark and Lyon are prime examples. While he thinks his slow approach is not working he tries to attack and then plays too many shots, some times premeditated which lets him down.