Who is India's greatest test match winner ?

[akshayxyz]

When it comes to research you are Nobel laureate janaab..kdam lage raho :giggle: Waise accha laga tumhare biraadari waalon ka har waqt ka rona..Duniya made me this way...Do paisa khud ki jimmewari nahin, avtar hai Guy Fox ka :hysterical:

kabhi kahwat suni hai ? - When in Rome, behave like Romans. (hmmm...over expecting again, let me get down to your level) insaano mein tou pakka nahi, tumhari prajati mein paida hotey hongey - fully furnished - ek haath mein balla, doosrey haath mein ball, cricket videos, stats, s/w etc. fully installed on EPROM - and that too autographed by _fill in the blanks_. zalim duniya mein kya pata kya mile kya na mile

[akshayxyz]

It is the same as MVP we have in other sports. For instance... let us take this match.. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64126.html INdia was precariously placed at 156 with effectively 5 down with Laxman injured and 19 year old KKD walking in. INdi's lead was only 170. Most decisive part of the match was this partnership. I gave up hope After Laxman got injured. Dravid stepped second time in the match and caused a turn around once again. Any total less than 250 India could not have put so much pressure.

I am curious to know what all other sports are analogous to Cricket, that you are speaking of.

[Zelig]

Kumble :dontknow:

[Ultimate_Game]

Of all the faulty ways and definitions - MoM in won matches - is one of the worst way to evaluate match winning potential of a player. MoM - is like binary, one player gets 1 point, other 21 get 0. Considering just won matches - even worse. For e.g. WC 2011 final, was Jaya's not a potential match winning knock?, what about Gambhir's? But as per the magical filter - Jaya gets 0, and so does Gambhir and everyone else. And yes, if someone wants to put an award for such dumb stat - most MoMs in won matches - go ahead give it to whoever finishes at top of the ladder - and he deserves it.

My view is that MOM sort of even out. On some occasion you may end up the 2nd best but on others you will be the most important player. MOM is like democracy - it's not ideal and has many flaws but it's the best system you have to determine match-winners.

[Ultimate_Game]

It wasnt that much of an obvious choice anyways ' date=' Could have gone either way . Just because Dravid usually creeps his way to get runs and sometimes even made ordinary pitches look like complete minefield which dont mean actually mean that the pitches were that tough to bat at that given point of time .[/quote'] You just proved the poster's (vvslaxman) point. Dravid scored those runs in challenging conditions and laid the platform with Bangar IIRC on which SRT and Ganguly could build on. Without Dravid I doubt we woul have won the match, forget winning by an innings.

[Ultimate_Game]

I am curious to know what all other sports are analogous to Cricket' date=' that you are speaking of.[/quote'] But it doesn't matter whether other sports are similar to cricket or not. Every team sport, be it ice-hockey (NHL), basketball (NBA), football (NFL) etc. gets contributions from all the players but one contribution is deemed to be the difference-maker resulting in MVP. Same this is MOM in cricket. As for similarity with cricket baseball (MLB) comes close but the same argument can be made for any sport as none of the sports are similar to each other.

[rkt.india]

er of the attack. Without Kumble we wouldn't have won as many matches as we did. If we had a decent pace attack in 90s who could perform away SRT's runs could have made the difference but as things stand they didn't, but Kumble's wkts did translate to Indian wins at home and that's why Kumle is our all-time greatest match-winner.

But we did not have a good pace attack even in 2000s let alone 90s. We become #1, but still we didnt have a good pace attack.

[The Outsider]

But we did not have a good pace attack even in 2000s let alone 90s. We become #1' date=' but still we didnt have a good pace attack.[/quote'] Zaheer was in very good form during our ascent to number 1, and Sreesanth and Ishant had their series of glory.

[rkt.india]

Zaheer was in very good form during our ascent to number 1' date=' and Sreesanth and Ishant had their series of glory.[/quote'] Srinath, Prasad, Prabahakar weren't any lesser than these guys. In fact, Ishant apart from WI tour never had a good series overseas. His best performances are only at home. Sreesanth had 4-5 good test matches that I remember overseas or at home. Between 2000-2006 we had poor Agarkar and Nehra along with average Zaheer and always injured Balaji. Pathan came and only bashed minnows in BD and Sim.

[The Outsider]

Srinath' date=' Prasad, Prabahakar weren't any lesser than these guys. In fact, Ishant apart from WI tour never had a good series overseas. His best performances are only at home. Sreesanth had 4-5 good test matches that I remember overseas or at home. Between 2000-2006 we had poor Agarkar and Nehra along with average Zaheer and always injured Balaji. Pathan came and only bashed minnows in BD and Sim.[/quote'] You've got your reading and analysis completely wrong: 1. Let's assume you only want to discuss India's away(outside subcontinent?) matches - all our good performances have been built on a good show by the fast bowlers. That they did not manage to sustain is a different topic of discussion. But starting from Sreesanth and Munaf in South Africa '06, followed by Sreesanth and Zaheer in South Africa '06, RP Singh and Pathan in Australia '07, RP Singh and Zaheer in England '07, Zaheer and Ishant in NZ in '09 etc. 2. Regarding Ishant, I think it was you and I who had this discussion post the WI tour when I was doubtful of his abilities, but you were pointing to stats. If you search my posts, I've never thought of Ishant as a finished product and ready to take on the best. 3. Regarding Sreesanth and I'll also include Munaf here, I think Indian cricket wasted these two bowlers - a lot can be attributed to their sloppy attitudes as well. But as far as one of the best Indian bowling attacks without Zaheer that I have seen was Sreesanth and Munaf in WI in 2006 - look where they are now, struggling to find spots in club sides. 4. Srinath and Prasad were actually a very goo combination for a couple of years and got us close to test match wins with their bowling, but did not have the batting powerhouse that the others benefited from to lead to the final scoreline.

[rkt.india]

You've got your reading and analysis completely wrong: 1. Let's assume you only want to discuss India's away(outside subcontinent?) matches - all our good performances have been built on a good show by the fast bowlers. That they did not manage to sustain is a different topic of discussion. But starting from Sreesanth and Munaf in South Africa '06, followed by Sreesanth and Zaheer in South Africa '06, RP Singh and Pathan in Australia '07, RP Singh and Zaheer in England '07, Zaheer and Ishant in NZ in '09 etc.

But I would say Indian batsmen also started batting better during this period.

2. Regarding Ishant, I think it was you and I who had this discussion post the WI tour when I was doubtful of his abilities, but you were pointing to stats. If you search my posts, I've never thought of Ishant as a finished product and ready to take on the best.

Agree I was wrong assessing Ishant, but the way he had bowled in WI, I was tempted to say that because he bowled so dominantly throughout the series. I had never seen an Indian fast bowler bowling like that against any team in last 20 years. I feel stress and fatigue of 7 back to back tests also got to him then and he also had some technical problems regarding seam and length in England and Aus.

3. Regarding Sreesanth and I'll also include Munaf here, I think Indian cricket wasted these two bowlers - a lot can be attributed to their sloppy attitudes as well. But as far as one of the best Indian bowling attacks without Zaheer that I have seen was Sreesanth and Munaf in WI in 2006 - look where they are now, struggling to find spots in club sides.

Agree. Munaf is the biggest disappointment for me since I saw him first time in his debut series. He was the best fast bowling talent come out from India then. He had everything pace, movement, yorker, bouncer, and decent accuracy.

4. Srinath and Prasad were actually a very goo combination for a couple of years and got us close to test match wins with their bowling, but did not have the batting powerhouse that the others benefited from to lead to the final scoreline.

I think if we had better bating in 90s, we could have been a huge force when in SA 1996 and England 1996 both Venky and Srinath were at their best, but we lacked third pacer.

[deathmonger]

You've got your reading and analysis completely wrong: 1. Let's assume you only want to discuss India's away(outside subcontinent?) matches - all our good performances have been built on a good show by the fast bowlers. That they did not manage to sustain is a different topic of discussion. But starting from Sreesanth and Munaf in South Africa '06, followed by Sreesanth and Zaheer in South Africa '06, RP Singh and Pathan in Australia '07, RP Singh and Zaheer in England '07, Zaheer and Ishant in NZ in '09 etc. 2. Regarding Ishant, I think it was you and I who had this discussion post the WI tour when I was doubtful of his abilities, but you were pointing to stats. If you search my posts, I've never thought of Ishant as a finished product and ready to take on the best. 3. Regarding Sreesanth and I'll also include Munaf here, I think Indian cricket wasted these two bowlers - a lot can be attributed to their sloppy attitudes as well. But as far as one of the best Indian bowling attacks without Zaheer that I have seen was Sreesanth and Munaf in WI in 2006 - look where they are now, struggling to find spots in club sides. 4. Srinath and Prasad were actually a very goo combination for a couple of years and got us close to test match wins with their bowling, but did not have the batting powerhouse that the others benefited from to lead to the final scoreline.

True this. We have had good fast bowling but not the same fast bowlers. Bowlers usually have a good series and then become rubbish. Irfan/Balaji in Pak 04 Munaf/Sree in WI 06 ZAK/RP in Eng 07 Sree in SA RP/Irfan in Aus 07

[deathmonger]

Srinath' date=' Prasad, Prabahakar weren't any lesser than these guys. In fact, Ishant apart from WI tour never had a good series overseas. His best performances are only at home. Sreesanth had 4-5 good test matches that I remember overseas or at home. Between 2000-2006 we had poor Agarkar and Nehra along with average Zaheer and always injured Balaji. [b']Pathan came and only bashed minnows in BD and Sim.

Pathan won us the Pak 04 series. First overseas series win since SL in early 90s. Don't hate cause he's not a phaaaast bowler.

[Ultimate_Game]

But we did not have a good pace attack even in 2000s let alone 90s. We become #1' date=' but still we didnt have a good pace attack.[/quote'] In 2000s we had a decent stable of pacers which came through. Nothing great but decent. In earlier part of 90s we had Prabhakar and Srinath, and in the latter part of 90s Srinath & Prasad. Srinath & Prasad as an opening pair was quite decent but the problem we had at the time was that there was no backup for them. Time and again we saw Srinath/Prasad get early wkts only for the pressure to be released after their spell was over. The drop-off between those two and others were so bad that we had likes of David Johnson, Dodda Ganesh, Kuruvilla, Kumaran as the backups which is actually similar to the current state where we have likes of Vinay, PK and Dinda:giggle: Moving on to 2000s we had Zak, Sreesant, Agarkar, Irfan, Balaji (for a couple of series before his injury), RP Singh, Ishant, Nehra, Munaf etc. Yes, these bowlers were not great but as a bowling unit along with backups they were an upgrade on the earlier bunch. And this is reflected in our better overseas record in 2000s.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Crookbond]

In 2000s we had a decent stable of pacers which came through. Nothing great but decent. In earlier part of 90s we had Prabhakar and Srinath' date=' and in the latter part of 90s Srinath & Prasad. Srinath & Prasad as an opening pair was quite decent but the problem we had at the time was that there was no backup for them. [b']Time and again we saw Srinath/Prasad get early wkts only for the pressure to be released after their spell was over. The drop-off between those two and others were so bad that we had likes of David Johnson, Dodda Ganesh, Kuruvilla, Kumaran as the backups which is actually similar to the current state where we have likes of Vinay, PK and Dinda:giggle: Moving on to 2000s we had Zak, Sreesant, Agarkar, Irfan, Balaji (for a couple of series before his injury), RP Singh, Ishant, Nehra, Munaf etc. Yes, these bowlers were not great but as a bowling unit along with backups they were an upgrade on the earlier bunch. And this is reflected in our better overseas record in 2000s.

Anil Kumble bowling in the 10th or 11th over of a Test match on a green wicket. :headshake:

[The Outsider]

Lastly, you speak as though you are champion of tolerating opinion ( even if you don't like it) and allowing people to express it freely ? Shall we look into your track record to this effect for the n+1th frikkin time ?

I won't bother responding to the rest of your post, since you look least interested in discussing cricket but would just like to point out to the hundreds/thousands of posts you made to get someone banned because you could not tolerate his opinion and because he had the time and patience to make you do nanga naach every other day. Just because others don't have similar amount of time, keep deluding yourself that you are winning some trophies. Chalo, ab jaa kar "Om Namah Shivaya" karo so that Tendulkar can finally start putting bat to ball at least in home matches.

[Ultimate_Game]

Anil Kumble bowling in the 10th or 11th over of a Test match on a green wicket. :headshake:

:(( Those were the days when we knew before hand we will get a green track and we still couldn't do anything about it and Kumble would still show up on Day 1 as the first change bowler when the ball was only 15 overs old :facepalm: In 2000s we at least had half-decent pacers who coul exploit such conditions and pay back the opponents in the same coin. Alas over the last year we have fallen back with the likes of Vinay and PK as our fall-back options.

[Crookbond]

:(( Those were the days when we knew before hand we will get a green track and we still couldn't do anything about it and Kumble would still show up on Day 1 as the first change bowler when the ball was only 15 overs old :facepalm: In 2000s we at least had half-decent pacers who coul exploit such conditions and pay back the opponents in the same coin. Alas over the last year we have fallen back with the likes of Vinay and PK as our fall-back options.

With the advent of these great fast bowlers, batsmen are falling back and enjoying the desserts thrown at them.

[vvvslaxman]

In the poll.. kumble has drowned everybody.. not surprising.