The Narendra Modi thread

[asterix]

Under Secular CM everything DISCO and under Non-secular CM everything MUJRA? :cantstop:

[Sachin=GOD]

S=G' date=' do you know any recent riots which happened under the watch of a very experienced CM?[/quote'] riots have happened but I don't remember many examples where people from the Govt openly encouraged and led rioters. he has been successful but not so successful as he and his supporters claim. There has not been a magical turnaround of Gujarat under him.

[asterix]

riots have happened but I don't remember many examples where people from the Govt openly encouraged and led rioters. he has been successful but not so successful as he and his supporters claim. There has not been a magical turnaround of Gujarat under him.

Give me those examples which you remember...

[Sachin=GOD]

Give me those examples which you remember...

small scale riots have been happening in various parts of UP for many years. Recently there were riots in Faizabad.

[Khalpat]

he has been successful but not so successful as he and his supporters claim. There has not been a magical turnaround of Gujarat under him.

Fair enough.

[The Outsider]

LOL! Now posters are trying to justify the death of thousands by saying that the poor CM was inexperienced to take the right decisions to control the riots. Tomorrow, if he plunges the country into a war, I won't be surprised that the same posters continue to justify it by saying he was inexperienced in defense and foreign affairs.

[Crookbond]

Arey Hanuman jee I answered a question of S=G in yes. Yes, it was a failure from government but would you consider that the person whom you are blaming for incompetency had only 3 months of service as CM till that time. 3 months, my states adarniya CM Akhlesh Yadav's party man still sing the song after two years that young CM has just taken office give him time. That person had no administrative experience before becoming CM. Now still he has not replied but may be you will reply the counter question will you say that he has been successful in not letting any riot happen in his state after that 2002 incident. Means first 3 months were bad but next 11 years have been good administration right?

Incompetence is not a reason for ANY excuse when 1000s are being killed. The value of human life is important and not one to be ignored. No riots - does not equate to good administration.

[FischerTal]

LOL! Now posters are trying to justify the death of thousands by saying that the poor CM was inexperienced to take the right decisions to control the riots. Tomorrow, if he plunges the country into a war, I won't be surprised that the same posters continue to justify it by saying he was inexperienced in defense and foreign affairs.

war and riots???? :hatsoff:

[Khalpat]

LOL! Now posters are trying to justify the death of thousands by saying that the poor CM was inexperienced to take the right decisions to control the riots. Tomorrow, if he plunges the country into a war, I won't be surprised that the same posters continue to justify it by saying he was inexperienced in defense and foreign affairs.

Utha ke India Gate pe ulta latka ke Peeche goli maar doonga if he does that. Be sure with this all the Modi supporter will do the same, we are not supporter of Modi because of his family or because of his great grand father. I know you justify Sonia's dog also should become PM of this country but we do not , we favour him because in the queue of MMS, Rahul baba, Advani, Mulayam etc, only Modi seems to be a better person to lead India. You project a better leader than him , be sure we will support him.

[Khalpat]

Incompetence is not a reason for ANY excuse when 1000s are being killed. The value of human life is important and not one to be ignored. No riots - does not equate to good administration.

Well HM, me and S=G were having a debate on Modi's performance during his tenure. He agreed that Modi has been successful in his later 11 years and I agreed that Modi was a big failure during his initial 3 - 6 months of being a CM. I justified that this was the initial days for him and he was not at all experienced in handling these kinds of mass riots like situation he asked the help of MP, Mah and Raj governments also. People gave him mandate again they thought he can do much better with experience and he did that in his next 11 years of rule. People of gujarat elected him again and again despite anti incumbency so he is successful. We can close this debate now coming to your point, "No riots - does not equate to good administration" I disagree with that statement if the state is UP, Maharastra, Gujarat as these states have a long history of communal tension and if there is no violence in these states then surely I will give credit to their government.

[Sachin=GOD]

Utha ke India Gate pe ulta latka ke Peeche goli maar doonga if he does that. Be sure with this all the Modi supporter will do the same' date=' we are not supporter of Modi because of his family or because of his great grand father.[b'] I know you justify Sonia's dog also should become PM of this country but we do not , we favour him because in the queue of MMS, Rahul baba, Advani, Mulayam etc, only Modi seems to be a better person to lead India. You project a better leader than him , be sure we will support him.

I guess you haven't read Outy's posts on that subject thats why you think he would support anyone from Gandhi-Nehru Pvt. Ltd.

[Sachin=GOD]

you still banging on after being dismantled on the hood ?

so I don't have as much knowledge about the train burnings as you do - how does that mean that I cannot discuss Modi's political ambitions? BTW you still haven't answered - assuming that Modi had absolutely no role to play in the riots, do you think it was a massive failure of the Govt and an example of utter incompetence on Modi's part to control the situation?

[ravishingravi]

so I don't have as much knowledge about the train burnings as you do - how does that mean that I cannot discuss Modi's political ambitions? BTW you still haven't answered - assuming that Modi had absolutely no role to play in the riots, do you think it was a massive failure of the Govt and an example of utter incompetence on Modi's part to control the situation?

In his track record, that can be considered as failure. Similarly, having riot free prosperous Gujarat for 10 years can be considered success. I would ask you to go though Gujarat's history of riots before Modi. So, just to share an anecdote. Last week for some reason, I had to take a share rickshaw. Essentially, it is stuffing 5 passengers in rickshaw where barely 3 can sit excluding the driver. Two Gujaratis, one from Baroda and one from Surat were discussing politics, not unlike how we discuss here. Similar issues and BJP's lack of clarity on ideology etc. Then there was Modi. One from Baroda who was Bori Mulsim which I could gather from their talks. He was talking about his family business and the city has transformed in 5 years and Modi's policies in that regard and why riots issues has been raked up. Now, as I sat quietly there, I thought to myself, I might not share his views entirely, but he actually lives there and has seen the changes. Keyboard warriors can only hammer articles, argue endlessly, resort to ad hominem attacks but it makes little to no difference to the lives affected. Now, I am sure there must be people who feel differently in Gujarat about Modi. But I would rather take the criticism of those who are there than internet warriors who have no onus or responsibility to prove or lose anything but their own sense of self righteousness.

[Sachin=GOD]

In his track record, that can be considered as failure. Similarly, having riot free prosperous Gujarat for 10 years can be considered success. I would ask you to go though Gujarat's history of riots before Modi. So, just to share an anecdote. Last week for some reason, I had to take a share rickshaw. Essentially, it is stuffing 5 passengers in rickshaw where barely 3 can sit excluding the driver. Two Gujaratis, one from Baroda and one from Surat were discussing politics, not unlike how we discuss here. Similar issues and BJP's lack of clarity on ideology etc. Then there was Modi. One from Baroda who was Bori Mulsim which I could gather from their talks. He was talking about his family business and the city has transformed in 5 years and Modi's policies in that regard and why riots issues has been raked up. Now, as I sat quietly there, I thought to myself, I might not share his views entirely, but he actually lives there and has seen the changes. Keyboard warriors can only hammer articles, argue endlessly, resort to ad hominem attacks but it makes little to no difference to the lives affected. Now, I am sure there must be people who feel differently in Gujarat about Modi. But I would rather take the criticism of those who are there than internet warriors who have no onus or responsibility to prove or lose anything but their own sense of self righteousness.

Fair enough. But I think you will agree with me when I say that Modi generates opposite views and has one as many critics as fans - do you see such a person leading a National Party to Electoral success in India? I definitely can't see it happening because the Numbers Game just doesn't suit such a divisive personality IMO.

[someone]

Here's a simple question for Modi fans - all his fans say that he is an excellent administrator and a great leader. Lets suppose that Modi is completely innocent and had absolutely nothing to do with either the Gujarat Riots or the fake encounters that have happened in Gujarat - the question remains' date=' How exactly is he an excellent administrator or a great leader when such things have happened (and were done by the top police/IAS/IB officers in the state) under his nose and he didn't have a hint about them?[/quote'] Lahori logic? It's like saying why is Sachin rated as one of the greats when many of his centuries have resulted in defeats, he didn't score runs in so many competitions, he has failed whenever needed. When you start connecting all things like what happened there and also what didn't happen to one man faults, at the end it will make you unhappy and crazy. Just look at the parosis.

[ravishingravi]

Fair enough. But I think you will agree with me when I say that Modi generates opposite views and has one as many critics as fans - do you see such a person leading a National Party to Electoral success in India? I definitely can't see it happening because the Numbers Game just doesn't suit such a divisive personality IMO.

I don't know honestly. Cause I don't. I think lot of it is media planted stories and narratives and perception of polarization that has been created which might have translated to actual polarization to some extent. For instance, I did not see this polarization when the riots happened in Bhagalpur or Sikkim or Mumbai ( when I was here ) with their CMs. How are they given clean chit ? So, why this special place for Modi. Why is Modi not being blamed also for burning of Karsevaks ? There was constant propaganda to curb the Gujarat growth story which has been phenomenal and anyone who has been to Gujarat can vouch for that. Apart from one instance ( hum paanch humaare pachees), I have not seen one remotely communal speech by the man. In fact, I have seen more communal speeches from the other side of isle. Ok, he might have a PR firm. So what ? If the entire machinery was working against me, I would also have one. I don't blame Gujarat govt. for exaggerating the growth story because hey have make some noise against the tide. Most people I believe who support Modi now, like me, are essentially seeing through this leftist liberal conjectures, propaganda, theories, conspiracies. I see him as a good administrator, thats it. But when you see the entire machinery trying to pin somebody down, the tendency is support the underdog. This is in some strange way working for Modi, I believe. The 4 th pillar of democracy has just given away to one side. I don't want pro or ant Modi stuff. I don't even want him as PM. I want the truth. I want facts not agenda. I want fights on issues. India is in deep mess.

[someone]

Don't worry, Modi is 'just' about to be nabbed

But it has been 11 years since that and in that manner at least, everyone has been proved wrong. If you have a strong belief that Modi is guilty, then there are dozens of straws that you can clutch on to. However, in terms of concrete evidence to nail Modi, absolutely nothing has come up. The damage has been done. The media convinced millions that year that Modi was guilty and those millions still stick on to their beliefs till the present day. That has been the consistent pattern for the last 11 years. Shrill reports keep resurfacing that Modi is just on the verge of being nabbed. When nothing of the sort happened, many more reports appeared saying that "he has got away" or he has got a "reprieve" or is merely on the "verge" of being proved guilty.

The strategy is clear and goes by the following procedure... First headline: Is Modi guilty? Next headline: Evidence points to Modi being guilty. Final headline: Modi gets off the hook due to lack of evidence. Or it may be done in the manner of... First headline: Modi flies out 15,000 from Uttarakhand. Second headline: Modi's 15,000 claim total rubbish. Third headline: What was the 15,000 source in the first place? Or... First headline: Modi to visit Ayodhya, angers minorities. Second headline: Modi not to visit Ayodhya, angers Hindus. Final headline: Was Modi not to have visited Ayodhya in the first place? In between all these headlines, the Congress, other parties, the so-called intellectuals, liberals, seculars and many sections of the media rubbish Modi as much as they possibly can. It's always one thing after another and in a way a free for all non-stop carnival that has been going on for more than a decade now. It's all about perception and all about headlines. You can play it up absolutely any way you want it to. If there are 3 suspected terrorists and one suspected helper, the media will invariably put "4 terrorists' in the headline. But if they've got an axe to grind, it simply becomes... "One innocent person along with three with suspected but unsubstantiated terror links". It's like one of Zeno's paradoxes.

[The Outsider]

Utha ke India Gate pe ulta latka ke Peeche goli maar doonga if he does that. Be sure with this all the Modi supporter will do the same, we are not supporter of Modi because of his family or because of his great grand father.

You are having a hard time criticizing his role in '02 when thousands died abetted by his state machinery (at least that much is proven in courts, even if you believe that Modi himself is innocent). The logic that he was new to the job and so can let his state burn for days, property worth billions destroyed, hundreds of thousands displaced, and thousands dead is downright absurd and borderline pathetic. If you lose millions of dollars on your first day at a trading desk, you are fired immediately. If you lose a few thousands it's considered a learning curve. If you bring down the production server of your company the first week of your job, you are fired immediately, if you bring down the development environment it's considered a part of the learning curve. It's absurd to justify the huge scale of the Gujarat riots as some kind of a learning curve.

I know you justify Sonia's dog also should become PM of this country but we do not , we favour him because in the queue of MMS, Rahul baba, Advani, Mulayam etc, only Modi seems to be a better person to lead India.

Don't misquote me. I had said that Sonia's dog has a better chance of winning votes outside Gujarat than Modi. And anyhow, at the very least Sonia's dog will also twiddle his thumbs like Modi did and at least will not participate in a community targeted state sponsored riots. So now that you bring it up, I might prefer Sonia's dog or any dog for that matter because at the very least it will not discriminate between who is getting state support in the riots.

You project a better leader than him , be sure we will support him.

Pretty much every realistic PM candidate at this point is better than Modi, but you are too high on the Modi koolade to realize it now.

[The Outsider]

I don't know honestly. Cause I don't. I think lot of it is media planted stories and narratives and perception of polarization that has been created which might have translated to actual polarization to some extent. For instance' date= I did not see this polarization when the riots happened in Bhagalpur or Sikkim or Mumbai ( when I was here ) with their CMs. How are they given clean chit ? So, why this special place for Modi.

Wow! 11 years after the riots people still don't understand why Gujarat riots were different to so many others and were akin to '84 riots. :hysterical:

Apart from one instance ( hum paanch humaare pachees), I have not seen one remotely communal speech by the man.

Apart from one speech, apart from one riots everything is fine. The Modi koolade is just something out of the world, must admit.

[seedhi]

LOL at comparing governance with a trading desk job. Applying that logic FWD Roosevelt was a failure for not anticipating/stopping the Pearl Harbor attack. Even Abraham Lincoln who could not prevent the civil war. Pretty much any leader who could not prevent violence is a failure. Nehru, Patel, Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, Narasimha Rao all are failures by that logic. Absurd.